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Old
03-08-2013, 04:11 PM
  #376
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Are you confident in Booth this season?
Yes, he is playing possibly the best hockey he has since he got here, just snake bitten.

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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Don't forget he's big, and he plays heavy. When he's not scoring, he contributes in other ways.
Bingo, exactly. Thats one of the things I like about him and why we need to hold onto him heading into the playoffs.

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03-08-2013, 04:42 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Yes, he is playing possibly the best hockey he has since he got here, just snake bitten.
Agreed. Booth is playing well compared to other fourth liners.


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Bingo, exactly. Thats one of the things I like about him and why we need to hold onto him heading into the playoffs.
Pretty sure he played in the playoffs last year and completely disappeared.

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Old
03-08-2013, 04:52 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
"Sources say Ehrhoff was offered the same deal blueliner Kevin Bieksa received on Monday - a new five-year, $23 million contract that includes a no-trade clause."

So we stuck our guns and didn't offer him a penny more than Bieksa, which he balked at. And his departure has changed our status from "elite" to "good", with the decline being more pronounced this season.

This is the worst mistake of Gillis' tenure here imo, and I know many feel the same.
totally agree. it's like if Hank wanted 6m but MG just gave Kesler 5mil and wouldn't go a penny over because he think Kesler is better overall player even though Hank is much better point producer but lacks Kesler's d or grit. once Hank leaves, Daniel will still be a good player who can produce points, but will not be the same without Hank. it was a big mistake by Gillis letting our only pmd/pp qb leave without a similar player coming back. all that over some money. heck if we gave him a Buf kind of offer to lower the cap hit, we can add JG and toss Ballard. it would give us greater chance at a cup for sure vs what we have now.

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03-08-2013, 05:23 PM
  #379
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Grabner wasn't anything special, he would've been in the doghouse for the majority of his career.
I disagree, he had pure goal scoring instinct and he is extremely mobile. He could zip in to the slot from the corner ready for a one timer faster than you can say AV hates talent.

AV's style crushes and smothers pure skill players and naturally we have always excused our gm for trading them because "the player didn't have a place in our organization". Hodgson and Grabner should have been recognized for the pure talent they are and be considered un-tradeable.

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Old
03-08-2013, 05:30 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
Pretty sure he played in the playoffs last year and completely disappeared.
Pretty sure the difference being he wasn't playing well heading into the playoffs that year (after he returning back from the knee on knee hit).

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Originally Posted by BuggSuperstar View Post
I disagree, he had pure goal scoring instinct and he is extremely mobile. He could zip in to the slot from the corner ready for a one timer faster than you can say AV hates talent.

AV's style crushes and smothers pure skill players and naturally we have always excused our gm for trading them because "the player didn't have a place in our organization". Hodgson and Grabner should have been recognized for the pure talent they are and be considered un-tradeable.
I had my problems with the way AV handled Hodgson but Grabner made his own bed here (treated training camp like it was "summer camp"). Lousy work ethic. AV might not have ever given him a chance but Grabner didn't give him any reasons to.

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Old
03-08-2013, 05:35 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Just because you say that doesn't make it true. Booth is yet to have a season where he didn't produce at a Top 6 rate at ES. Hansen has now produced at a Top 6 rate for two seasons.
Hansen scoring 29 and 39 points respectively in the last 2 seasons is "at a Top 6" rate?

Those are 3rd line numbers.

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03-08-2013, 05:37 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Don't forget he's big, and he plays heavy. When he's not scoring, he contributes in other ways.

Yes, problem is he is getting paid over 4 million/year, he needs to put up points.

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03-08-2013, 05:52 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by GJB View Post
Hansen scoring 29 and 39 points respectively in the last 2 seasons is "at a Top 6" rate?

Those are 3rd line numbers.
Considering most of those points came at ES, yeah. That's how much Top 6 forwards in the NHL produce at ES. It's not his fault the coaching staff doesn't have him out there for the PP. (That said, I was talking about last year and this year. In fact, this year Hansen ranks in the Top 90 in ES scoring which is even better.)

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03-08-2013, 06:01 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by doobie604 View Post
totally agree. it's like if Hank wanted 6m but MG just gave Kesler 5mil and wouldn't go a penny over because he think Kesler is better overall player even though Hank is much better point producer but lacks Kesler's d or grit. once Hank leaves, Daniel will still be a good player who can produce points, but will not be the same without Hank. it was a big mistake by Gillis letting our only pmd/pp qb leave without a similar player coming back. all that over some money. heck if we gave him a Buf kind of offer to lower the cap hit, we can add JG and toss Ballard. it would give us greater chance at a cup for sure vs what we have now.
Indeed, and an appropriate analogy. People seem to forget how desperately we needed a PMD prior to the acquisition of Ehrhoff, and how he transformed out team.

The Canucks played a different brand of hockey, and one that quite frankly terrified other teams. A lethal powerplay combined with some of the fastest transition hockey I've ever seen. It was a thing of beauty.

Our winning % in 2011 was 0.713, last year it was 0.677 and thus far it's at 0.609 with the season being half over. Coincidence? I don't think so. Reportedly all over a measly 500k if they had met halfway.

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:04 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Considering most of those points came at ES, yeah. That's how much Top 6 forwards in the NHL produce at ES. It's not his fault the coaching staff doesn't have him out there for the PP. (That said, I was talking about last year and this year. In fact, this year Hansen ranks in the Top 90 in ES scoring which is even better.)
Hansen has been awesome, least of the problems on the team. He's a standout 3rd line RW, but makes for a mediocre to crappy 2nd line RW.

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:06 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Scott Hall View Post
If anything has taught us, the playoffs are different than they were after the first lockout. Teams are built for size and grit now, and skilled, puck possession teams don't make it past the second round.
The teams I mentioned have won recently more times then a big team

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:14 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by The Optimist View Post
So Getzlaf just signed an 8.25 cap hit for 8 years. Meanwhile the Canucks' players continue to sign at below market value.


Gillis deserves credit here. He helped to make Vancouver desirable to play for.
Way overpaid.

Booths cap hit looks better every day

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:21 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Hansen has been awesome, least of the problems on the team. He's a standout 3rd line RW, but makes for a mediocre to crappy 2nd line RW.
I wish you guys would just come out and say what you mean. You want a 1st line talent on a 2nd line. That's fine, but let's not pretend like Hansen has been anything less than at the very worst an average 2nd line talent (but likely above-average given he's Top 90 in scoring) this season.


Last edited by Tiranis: 03-08-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old
03-08-2013, 06:30 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
You attempt to refute my argument by stating we should focus on what "we actually KNOW" and then throw out a bs statement that everyone else was prepared to basically double our offers?

This is complete and utter ********, apart from being hypocritical.

The term and total value of the contract was not an actual possibility until he hit free agency, and it's disingenuous to pretend as though it was a 5x5.5 contract vs the Buffalo contract, as the Buffalo contract didn't exist until he walked away from the Canucks offer.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=370268

"Sources say Ehrhoff was offered the same deal blueliner Kevin Bieksa received on Monday - a new five-year, $23 million contract that includes a no-trade clause."

So we stuck our guns and didn't offer him a penny more than Bieksa, which he balked at. And his departure has changed our status from "elite" to "good", with the decline being more pronounced this season.

This is the worst mistake of Gillis' tenure here imo, and I know many feel the same.
I wasn't refuting your argument, I was actually agreeing with you that we wanted to keep him. That's why I quoted your bolded passage.

My take is different yes, that he already made his mind to walk away after that offer so we didn't have a chance.

I don't agree that Ehrhoff was that big an impact on the team but notice I didn't mention that in my post.

But thanks for calling me names and stuff.

Actually, I take that back. I still think it wasn't about $500k because in the end Ehrhoff CHOSE to walk away from what we offered him. We don't know what the counter offer was after that, so we can't reasonably say it was a $500k difference.

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:31 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I wish you guys would just come out and say what you mean. You want a 1st line talent on a 2nd line. That's fine, but let's not pretend like Hansen has been anything less than at the very worst an average 2nd line talent (but likely above-average given he's Top 90 in scoring) this season.
I'm saying he could be a RW on our second line, but in a perfect world he's a 3rd line RW and first unit penalty killer.

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:46 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I'm saying he could be a RW on our second line, but in a perfect world he's a 3rd line RW and first unit penalty killer.
In the real world, he's a justified top6er. 8 of the forwards on this team are.

In a dream world, I'd rather have Cory Perry as this team's 3rd line RW... See where I'm going with this?

The aesthetic may be what people are talking about here. Not actual effectiveness. Hansen and others don't seem like wizards with the puck, so their contribution is dismissed. It's why AV gets a pass due to MG not giving him enough talent to work with, where in reality, he has guys like Hansen producing at a top6 rate as a "3rd liner".

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03-08-2013, 06:51 PM
  #392
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In the real world, he's a justified top6er. 8 of the forwards on this team are.

In a dream world, I'd rather have Cory Perry as this team's 3rd line RW... See where I'm going with this?

The aesthetic may be what people are talking about here. Not actual effectiveness. Hansen and others don't seem like wizards with the puck, so their contribution is dismissed. It's why AV gets a pass due to MG not giving him enough talent to work with, where in reality, he has guys like Hansen producing at a top6 rate as a "3rd liner".
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Aquisition
Higgins-Aquisition-Hansen
Raymond-Lapierre-Kassian

This is the kind of depth Im talking about. Sure Hansen could be a second liner and Schroeder can stay ont he team...good luck getting out of the 1st round though.

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03-08-2013, 06:53 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Aquisition
Higgins-Aquisition-Hansen
Raymond-Lapierre-Kassian

This is the kind of depth Im talking about. Sure Hansen could be a second liner and Schroeder can stay ont he team...good luck getting out of the 1st round though.
Totally unrealistic. And Raymond on the fourth line? Really?

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:10 PM
  #394
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If some fans would just take a step back and over-analyze 90% of other team rosters they would understand how good this team really looks from top to bottom.

We have the luxury of playing guys like Raymond and Hansen and Higgins on our 3rd line because we have so much depth we can swap players around the line-up. Most teams have these players as main-stays on their top lines. We have an influx of talent and act like spoiled brats.

I heard someone mention that outside of the Sedins and Kesler we have no talent up front. That is absolutely ridiculous and this person should never be able to watch a hockey game again.

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03-08-2013, 07:11 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Considering most of those points came at ES, yeah. That's how much Top 6 forwards in the NHL produce at ES. It's not his fault the coaching staff doesn't have him out there for the PP. (That said, I was talking about last year and this year. In fact, this year Hansen ranks in the Top 90 in ES scoring which is even better.)
Hansen is a great 3rd liner, but a mediocre 2nd liner.

He doesn't play the PP because he isn't good enough. I side with AV on this issue.

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #396
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If some fans would just take a step back and over-analyze 90% of other team rosters they would understand how good this team really looks from top to bottom.

We have the luxury of playing guys like Raymond and Hansen and Higgins on our 3rd line because we have so much depth we can swap players around the line-up. Most teams have these players as main-stays on their top lines. We have an influx of talent and act like spoiled brats.

I heard someone mention that outside of the Sedins and Kesler we have no talent up front. That is absolutely ridiculous and this person should never be able to watch a hockey game again.
lol, everything is just roses in your universe isn't it.

Right now our 2nd line is Higgins-Raymond-Hansen, that is just sad and we're not getting anything out of so called big men with soft hands like Booth and Kassian.

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03-08-2013, 07:15 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
If some fans would just take a step back and over-analyze 90% of other team rosters they would understand how awesome this team really looks form top to bottom.

We have the luxury of playing guys like Raymond and Hansen and Higgins on our 3rd line because we have so much depth we can swag players around the line-up. Most teams have these players as main-stays on their top lines but because we have an influx of talent we act like spoiled brats.

I heard someone mention that outside of the Sedins and Kesler we have no talent up front. That is absolutely ridiculous and this person should never be able to watch a hockey game again.
Yes, it is nice that we have so many 3rd line wingers. The downside is that none of them produce consistently enough to be good 2nd liners.

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:16 PM
  #398
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Yes, it is nice that we have so many 3rd line wingers. The downside is that none of them produce consistently enough to be good 2nd liners.
How about, instead of saying that, you look at the ES stats of 2nd liners around the league and then try to back your opinion up with those? (You'll find it an impossible task since you're completely wrong.)

I'll say it again: what you guys want is another 1st liner to play on the 2nd line. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact I tend to agree, but if you we were to acquire another 2nd liner you would find that they're no better or more consistent than the ones we already have.


Last edited by Tiranis: 03-08-2013 at 07:24 PM.
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Old
03-08-2013, 07:18 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
lol, everything is just roses in your universe isn't it.

Right now our 2nd line is Higgins-Raymond-Hansen, that is just sad and we're not getting anything out of so called big men with soft hands like Booth and Kassian.
You have unrealistic expectations.

Complaining about those players being on our 2nd line is a perfect example of someone who needs to start analyzing other teams as well.

Booth has played well - his chances haven't gone in. And Kesler is out of the line-up. The Canucks have one of the strongest forward groups in the league.

Those players are all average 2nd liners; But you fail to mention that they aren't usually what our 2nd line looks like. Take a step back from the ledge. I bet half the teams in the league would take that 2nd line over their current 2nd line- And this is exactly the double standard.

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03-08-2013, 07:18 PM
  #400
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Like I said before, the perception that we don't have talented players isn't helped by the fact that not many of them are very good in the shootout. Yet somehow these same guys manage to produce at top 6 rates. Are they just getting lucky all the time, over and over again, every year?

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