HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Mike Gillis Discussion Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-04-2013, 04:50 PM
  #126
Luuuongo
Crabs!
 
Luuuongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Classless One View Post
Don't think it's management, per se. It's coaching.
They did mess up a bit with Coho. More so AV for sure, though.

Luuuongo is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 04:51 PM
  #127
VanCanucks14
Registered User
 
VanCanucks14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,654
vCash: 500
Luongo didn't want a trade because of management BUT I do think the Canucks could have handled a lot of stuff better than they did. Seems like a recurring theme now.

Luongo, Hodgson, Manny, Ballard, even some Kesler vs AV comments, and wasn't there some rumors that Nazzy and Linden weren't too fond of AV? I'm not saying it's all managements fault but a lot of these situations could have been handled better. It just doesn't look good on the organization and players around the league notice.

VanCanucks14 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 04:53 PM
  #128
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 20,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanCanucks17 View Post
Luongo didn't want a trade because of management BUT I do think the Canucks could have handled a lot of stuff better than they did. Seems like a recurring theme now.

Luongo, Hodgson, Manny, Ballard, even some Kesler vs AV comments, and wasn't there some rumors that Nazzy and Linden weren't too fond of AV? I'm not saying it's all managements fault but a lot of these situations could have been handled better. It just doesn't look good on the organization and players around the league notice.
What issue has there been with Manny? He's on IR and getting paid because Gillis doesn't want to risk his health. It's pretty apparent that he's telling the truth about that since he doesn't want to trade him or waive him. Hell, the team has been worse ever since Manny was put on IR and big part of it is not having anyone to take those defensive draws.

Tiranis is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 04:55 PM
  #129
nameless1
HF's Poet Laureate
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
This wasn't the team that Nonis made questionable trades with. This was essentially a rebuild team and a total underdog. Remember we had guys like Josh Green and Jan Bulis playing meaningful roles.
Which team are you talking about?
06/07 team?
He still traded 2nd rounders for Smolinski and Sopel, 2 half-season rentals.
They provided depth, no doubt, but that team still was dearth of depth.
Those were expensive rentals who really did not do anything for the team.
It was an old-school way of doing things.

That team was also not a true rebuild team.
He was doing a Burke and trying to do a rebuild on the fly.
He kept many of the same players, and only added Mitchell and Luongo.
Unfortunately, many of the players he kept, like Naslund and Morrison, regressed, and they were no longer worth their salaries.

What I had the most problem was 05/06, when Nonis went for it.
He trade 2 2nds, 3rd, and 4th rounders for Carney, Noronen, Weinrich and Brown, respectively, who were all half-season rentals.
2 of them were over the hill, while the other 2 never played for the Canucks again.
As a result for the 06 draft, they had 5 picks overall, and only 2 in the top 90.
The rest were in the 6th and 7th round.
Even worst was none of the players he picked made an impact for the team at all.
I understood he want to give the team a shot, but he could have gotten better players.
Instead he played it safe and went for veteran guys who were really not any good, but were only there to provide a veteran presence.
Hindsight is 20/20, and no one knew at the time how bad those players would be, but that conservativeness to do what worked before really did him in.

Quote:
But those were just picks. Mike Gillis traded away fully developed NHL prospects in Grabner and Hodgson.
Grabner was going to be put on waiver anyways.
He was not going to make the team, so he traded him in a package for Ballard, a commodity he needs.
What is the problem with that?
Florida, one of the worst team in the league ended up waiving him, so that really told you something about him.

With Hodgson, he got back Kassian.
It was a potential for potential trade.
That was a risk he took, and I am ok with it.
Hodgson has a lot of issues in his own zone, and when he was with the Canucks, they fed him soft minutes to mask his deficiencies.
With Kassian, even though he cooled down now, he is able to play on any line, and he has shown potential.
I am willing to wait it out.
It is still too early to judge.

Quote:
Who was that 2nd rounder ?
The one traded for Noronen?
Buffalo drafted Jhonas Enroth with it.

Quote:
I cant remember what he did to get Labarbera.
6th or 7th rounder.
Nothing too important.

Quote:
But why he was so sure of himself to make the Grabner and Hodgson deals I will never know. The Hodgson deal was bad timing and its even bad timing now because of injury no less.

He is capable of making steals so why does he feel the need to over-pay ?

He better not even f$%#%#$ think about trading Shredder or Jensen.
Steals does not happen everyday.
Sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose some.

Can you really say he lost the Ballard deal though?
Bernier is with New Jersey now, Grabner was waived, and the 1st rounder, Howden, has not done anything yet.
Essentially, right now, it was Ballard for a 1st.
I really don't think he lost that badly.

You can't blame him for Hodgson.
He was fed up with all the behind the scene drama, so he got someone he liked and who has just as much potential.
It really was not a bad trade.
It is a future trade; you need to wait a few years to judge it.

No one could see that Kesler would get hurt so much this season.
Hindsight is always 20/20.

Gillis traded Grabner because he didn't fit anywhere on the roster, and he only traded Hodgson because of all the behind the scene issues.
Otherwise, Gillis really value his picks, and would not easily let them go.
Right now, Schroeder is probably not going anywhere due to the lack of depth, and since Gillis has high hopes for Jensen, I don't see him being moved.
Nobody knows, but I don't think you have to worry.

nameless1 is online now  
Old
03-04-2013, 05:49 PM
  #130
Trends Analyst
Across the Universe
 
Trends Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
He has improved the drafting by leaps and bounds compred to what we had in Nonis' time here.
How? Nonis had one bad year... and it was really bad, but how has Gillis improved drafting?

Trends Analyst is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 05:59 PM
  #131
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 20,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Bones View Post
How? Nonis had one bad year... and it was really bad, but how has Gillis improved drafting?
Among others, by drafting the expected player in the 1st round instead of messing around. If we went by TSN's list:

2005: Bourdon instead of Kopitar
2006: Grabner instead of Stewart (or even Giroux who was also ranked ahead of Grabner)
2007: White instead of Perron

If he makes those three picks then we're a much better team today. 2006 and 2007 late rounds were pathetic. If Gillis didn't overrule his scouting staff in 08, we would be enjoying Kyle Beach right now instead of Zach Kassian.

The 2009 draft was excellent in terms of replenishing the farm and 2011 is also starting to look like it will be excellent with at the very least 2 NHLers, if not more.

Tiranis is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 05:59 PM
  #132
Waveburner
RIP Luc
 
Waveburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Morrison's house.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,488
vCash: 500
I still believe overall Gillis has done more good than bad, although there's been more bad piling up in the last 2 seasons.

My main comment on Gillis pertains more towards all the AV bashing going on right now. I keep seeing all the blame being placed on AV for the Canucks being a "boring" team. I'm no great fan of AV, but are you guys actually serious?

Gillis made a very clear decision both after the 2010 loss to the Blackhawks in the second round and the 2011 loss to change the composition of the roster. In 2 seasons:

Out:

Demitra, Wellwood, Ehrhoff, Samuelsson, Salo

In:

Malhotra, Hamhuis, Higgins, Lapierre, Booth, Garrison

Gillis unloaded the 'soft' skill player and puck moving D-men and replaced them with north-south two-way forwards and defensive d-men who are still solid offensively.

What did people expect? Gillis clearly made the decision to rely on getting offense from the Sedin's, the D and some solid but unspectacular forward depth while grinding things out and relying on great goaltending. AV is playing the hand the GM dealt him. This is not a roster with lots of high end skill. It's the Sedin's and an army of good grinders. Get used to watching this style of hockey, it's what Gillis wants.

I'm not saying he's wrong to build the team this way, but he did and fans should look to him if they don't enjoy watching this team.

Waveburner is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:13 PM
  #133
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,907
vCash: 500
Alberts & Barker are good grinders?

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:15 PM
  #134
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,088
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner View Post
I still believe overall Gillis has done more good than bad, although there's been more bad piling up in the last 2 seasons.

My main comment on Gillis pertains more towards all the AV bashing going on right now. I keep seeing all the blame being placed on AV for the Canucks being a "boring" team. I'm no great fan of AV, but are you guys actually serious?

Gillis made a very clear decision both after the 2010 loss to the Blackhawks in the second round and the 2011 loss to change the composition of the roster. In 2 seasons:

Out:

Demitra, Wellwood, Ehrhoff, Samuelsson, Salo
In:

Malhotra, Hamhuis, Higgins, Lapierre, Booth, Garrison

Gillis unloaded the 'soft' skill player and puck moving D-men and replaced them with north-south two-way forwards and defensive d-men who are still solid offensively.

What did people expect? Gillis clearly made the decision to rely on getting offense from the Sedin's, the D and some solid but unspectacular forward depth while grinding things out and relying on great goaltending. AV is playing the hand the GM dealt him. This is not a roster with lots of high end skill. It's the Sedin's and an army of good grinders. Get used to watching this style of hockey, it's what Gillis wants.

I'm not saying he's wrong to build the team this way, but he did and fans should look to him if they don't enjoy watching this team.
To be fair, none of those players who left really provided much skill and offence other than Ehrhoff. Demitra and Samuelsson where jettisoned with a view to getting younger. In my view, the biggest area where we differ from other teams is in the young offensive players coming up internally. In the salary cap world it's really not very practical to acquire young offensive players. You have to grow your own. Hopefully that's starting to change now with Kassian, Schroeder and Jensen but that is definitely a weakness for us.

vanwest is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:15 PM
  #135
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Interestingly enough, he has the same number of points this season as Grabner right now at lower cap hit.
That is not a slight against Grabner. The fact is, he has an NHL contract.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:33 PM
  #136
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
That is not a slight against Grabner. The fact is, he has an NHL contract.
Ben Eager has a NHL contract.

I put Raymond's name out there as he'd be likely the guy Grabner would be fighting a roster spot over (assuming a healthy roster).

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:38 PM
  #137
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner View Post
I still believe overall Gillis has done more good than bad, although there's been more bad piling up in the last 2 seasons.

My main comment on Gillis pertains more towards all the AV bashing going on right now. I keep seeing all the blame being placed on AV for the Canucks being a "boring" team. I'm no great fan of AV, but are you guys actually serious?

Gillis made a very clear decision both after the 2010 loss to the Blackhawks in the second round and the 2011 loss to change the composition of the roster. In 2 seasons:

Out:

Demitra, Wellwood, Ehrhoff, Samuelsson, Salo

In:

Malhotra, Hamhuis, Higgins, Lapierre, Booth, Garrison

Gillis unloaded the 'soft' skill player and puck moving D-men and replaced them with north-south two-way forwards and defensive d-men who are still solid offensively.

What did people expect? Gillis clearly made the decision to rely on getting offense from the Sedin's, the D and some solid but unspectacular forward depth while grinding things out and relying on great goaltending. AV is playing the hand the GM dealt him. This is not a roster with lots of high end skill. It's the Sedin's and an army of good grinders. Get used to watching this style of hockey, it's what Gillis wants.

I'm not saying he's wrong to build the team this way, but he did and fans should look to him if they don't enjoy watching this team.
so Gillis is going back to a more defensive system ? Aka Nonis's system

He went over kill with the loss of raw skill. No Demitra , Hodgson or Grabner replacement. No Samuelson, or sundin.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:39 PM
  #138
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 20,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
so Gillis is going back to a more defensive system ? Aka Nonis's system
Only somebody who doesn't watch the games could even suggest that we're anywhere like the team that was during Nonis' years here. They play nothing like that team.

Tiranis is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:47 PM
  #139
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Only somebody who doesn't watch the games could even suggest that we're anywhere like the team that was during Nonis' years here. They play nothing like that team.
They kicked it down a gear offensivly and didn't replace some skill.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 07:07 PM
  #140
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
They kicked it down a gear offensivly and didn't replace some skill.
Why did they do that?

ddawg1950 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 07:13 PM
  #141
Horvat2Virtanen
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Horvat2Virtanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,924
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
They kicked it down a gear offensivly and didn't replace some skill.
This fan base sometimes. When Vancouver was purely a skilled team in 2010/2011 everyone suggested substituting skill for grit, when Gillis goes and does that people complain about there being a lack of skill. Don't compare this team to any in the Nonis era the current team is better at every facet of the game.

Horvat2Virtanen is online now  
Old
03-04-2013, 07:23 PM
  #142
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
This fan base sometimes. When Vancouver was purely a skilled team in 2010/2011 everyone suggested substituting skill for grit, when Gillis goes and does that people complain about there being a lack of skill. Don't compare this team to any in the Nonis era the current team is better at every facet of the game.
Yes, everyone was saying. Just not me.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 07:51 PM
  #143
CanuckLuck
Registered User
 
CanuckLuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kelowna, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,371
vCash: 500
Every GM makes mistakes. It's better than having a GM do nothing year after year.

At the end of the day Gillis has done much more positive than negative to this franchise. I think he is above average.

P.S. Not sure why the love-fest for Grabner. He's proving to be a pretty one-dimensional player on Long Island. Would much rather have Raymond who can play solid at both ends of the ice, kill penalties and slot up and down the line-up.

CanuckLuck is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 08:31 PM
  #144
Fat Tony
Registered User
 
Fat Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Much like being waived by a medicore team like the Panthers
The team run by Dale "Do I have to dial 9 on this fax machine?" Tallon? Those Panthers? It was a sad day for me when the Hawks pushed him out. He was the GM equivalent of falling down the stairs and landing on one's feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
claimed by a perpetual lottery team like the Islanders woke some guy up to the realization that maybe he couldn't get by with pure talent alone (I mean, the Islanders are the last stop before AHLs-ville or Europe) right?
With the way waiver claims work, the NYI would be one of the first stops. We'll never know how many teams put in a claim but I wouldn't be surprised if Gillis was one of them.

Fat Tony is online now  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:12 PM
  #145
Tank
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 51
vCash: 500
Firstly, the great team that Gillis inherited when he came here did not make the playoffs and I don't want to hear injuries as an excuse - Nonis built no depth around core players much like Jay Feebster did in Tampa after they won the cup - no idea of how to manage assets.

Secondly, although it is still early he has refocussed our drafting in North America nd specifically Ontario - where the majority of NHLers come from more than double any other region - Adding scouts in that area has landed us Tanev, Gaunce, Jensen, Corrado, Hutton and Archibald -- pretty much all of out future --- some of drafts previous to his arrival were complete abortions - Patrick White Taylor Ellington et al.

Lastly he has made Vancouver a prime destination for free agents creating an environment where players (Sedins Bieksa Burrows etc ) agreee to take less to play there.

If, for a moment, you think we are in a worse position with GMMG then you have the brain size of a peanut.

Tank is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:25 PM
  #146
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
Why did they do that?
To get tougher apparently. The Hawks aren't really that tough and they are who we have to beat.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:31 PM
  #147
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank View Post
Firstly, the great team that Gillis inherited when he came here did not make the playoffs and I don't want to hear injuries as an excuse - Nonis built no depth around core players much like Jay Feebster did in Tampa after they won the cup - no idea of how to manage assets.

Secondly, although it is still early he has refocussed our drafting in North America nd specifically Ontario - where the majority of NHLers come from more than double any other region - Adding scouts in that area has landed us Tanev, Gaunce, Jensen, Corrado, Hutton and Archibald -- pretty much all of out future --- some of drafts previous to his arrival were complete abortions - Patrick White Taylor Ellington et al.

Lastly he has made Vancouver a prime destination for free agents creating an environment where players (Sedins Bieksa Burrows etc ) agreee to take less to play there.

If, for a moment, you think we are in a worse position with GMMG then you have the brain size of a peanut.
I'll take MG but he's just an exec to me. If he makes too much mistakes, he's out.

Nonis doesn't get enough credit for this team.

LolClarkson* is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:33 PM
  #148
nameless1
HF's Poet Laureate
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,311
vCash: 500
Nonis' drafts after the lockout were abysmal.
Other than Mason Raymond and Grabner, there were no NHL players.
2007 was especially bad, with no NHLer at all.
His picks in the 1st rounds, other than Bourdon, were off the wall picks that no one expected, and none of them worked out.

Gillis' record is better.
He had a bad 2008, because other than Hodgson, it churned out nothing.
Sauve does not look like he will amount to anything right now.
However, afterwards, he seems to be getting the hang of things.
2009 looks to be a bit better, with Schroeder, Price, Andersson, and Cannata all making a sort of impact.
However, other than Schroeder, it is hard to tell if the others will make it.
2010 looks to be a write-off again, with maybe the exception of McNally, Friesen and Polasek.
It is a bit hard to judge with that one.
It is a little early to judge 2011, but it has Jensen, along with Labate, Corrado, Blomstrand and Tommernes who are interesting prospects.
It seems to be a lot more productive than the previous years.
With 2012, again it is too early, but there are some interesting results from guys like Myron and Hutton.
Plus, he did sign Tanev, and he is in the top-6 right now.
Nonis never hit anything with undrafted free agents.

Even though Gillis does not hit a home run every time, his drafts does seem to yield more results.
He has not churned out many NHLers yet, but it is a lot more promising than Nonis' draft.

nameless1 is online now  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:35 PM
  #149
Canadian Gold X3
It is what it is.
 
Canadian Gold X3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nanaimo B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,456
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless1 View Post
Nonis' drafts after the lockout were abysmal.
Other than Mason Raymond and Grabner, there were no NHL players.
2007 was especially bad, with no NHLer at all.
His picks in the 1st rounds, other than Bourdon, were off the wall picks that no one expected, and none of them worked out.

Gillis' record is better.
He had a bad 2008, because other than Hodgson, it churned out nothing.
Sauve does not look like he will amount to anything right now.
However, afterwards, he seems to be getting the hang of things.
2009 looks to be a bit better, with Schroeder, Price, Andersson, and Cannata all making a sort of impact.
However, other than Schroeder, it is hard to tell if the others will make it.
2010 looks to be a write-off again, with maybe the exception of McNally, Friesen and Polasek.
It is a bit hard to judge with that one.
It is a little early to judge 2011, but it has Jensen, along with Labate, Corrado, Blomstrand and Tommernes who are interesting prospects.
It seems to be a lot more productive than the previous years.
With 2012, again it is too early, but there are some interesting results from guys like Myron and Hutton.
Plus, he did sign Tanev, and he is in the top-6 right now.
Nonis never hit anything with undrafted free agents.

Even though Gillis does not hit a home run every time, his drafts does seem to yield more results.
He has not churned out many NHLers yet, but it is a lot more promising than Nonis' draft.
Fabian Brunnstrom

Canadian Gold X3 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:37 PM
  #150
Fat Tony
Registered User
 
Fat Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
P.S. Not sure why the love-fest for Grabner. He's proving to be a pretty one-dimensional player on Long Island. Would much rather have Raymond who can play solid at both ends of the ice, kill penalties and slot up and down the line-up.
Grabner has more blocked shots than any Canucks forward. He averages 3 mins/game on the PK vs. Raymond's 0:45, has a better giveaway/takeaway ratio and is better at faceoffs. How is he one-dimensional if Raymond is not?

Fat Tony is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.