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Roster/Trade/Etc Discussion Part V

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Old
03-27-2013, 06:32 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Lindholm/Fowler

why not try it?
Because we're still fighting for points, and having Fowler babysit a rookie when he's doing so well could be counterproductive?

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03-27-2013, 06:34 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
You've already stated you believe experience is overrated. To you good play in the A equals good play in the NHL. I don't agree with that. But on top of that, you're the only one I've read here who doesn't think his defense in Norfolk is less than acceptable...at the AHL level. Quibble if you will over my choice of adjectives, but I don't want him near this team the rest of the year or in the playoffs...and that's 100% because of his lack of defense. And btw, that ****ing offensive weapon of his forgot to travel to ANA with him when he was here. Yeah, experience is overrated.
Hahaha. 3 games and it "forgot to travel to ANA with him"? Come on. Let's give the guy a chance to get acclimated to the team before we post things like this. He was moving the puck well and got some shots on goal. All you can expect out of a rookie in a small sample size. His track record in Finland and in the AHL show that he is an elite offensive defenseman prospect. They tend to take longer than the style of player Sbisa is, and Sbisa still hasn't "figured things out".

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03-27-2013, 06:36 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Because we're still fighting for points, and having Fowler babysit a rookie when he's doing so well could be counterproductive?
To an extent, I do agree.

However, Lindholm is more mobile than Allen (Maybe he'll actually pass to Fowler too) and seems like he would be a perfect compliment to Fowler's game. I think it's worth a 3 game look to see if they find instant chemistry

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03-27-2013, 06:37 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by DaDucks View Post
well after seeing all of your posts on him around the other threads I would expect u to think so... Not only have u doubled down on him, you've refinanced your house on him too... what in trying to say is you might be the biggest fowler fan in the world... And I'm sure he'll be a great player, I'm not worried about him at all except for his goal scoring...
I agree. Not worried about Fowler. I'm worried about Sbisa's ability to ever be more than the dime a dozen type player he is right now.

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03-27-2013, 06:37 PM
  #880
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well after seeing all of your posts on him around the other threads I would expect u to think so... Not only have u doubled down on him, you've refinanced your house on him too... what in trying to say is you might be the biggest fowler fan in the world... And I'm sure he'll be a great player, I'm not worried about him at all except for his goal scoring...
I am a Fowler fan. I was a Fowler fan since before we drafted him. He was the player I saw in the draft and said "Man, it would be so cool if we could somehow get him." Imagine my surprise when we did.

But this isn't just about Fowler, DaDucks. It's also about Sbisa. I still think Sbisa can be better than he's shown, but right now he's basically a 3rd pairing defenseman, while Fowler is very much playing at a top pairing level. The difference in their on-ice contributions right now is startling. Fowler is basically better in every way, save hitting.

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03-27-2013, 06:38 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Hahaha. 3 games and it "forgot to travel to ANA with him"? Come on. Let's give the guy a chance to get acclimated to the team before we post things like this. He was moving the puck well and got some shots on goal. All you can expect out of a rookie in a small sample size. His track record in Finland and in the AHL show that he is an elite offensive defenseman prospect. They tend to take longer than the style of player Sbisa is, and Sbisa still hasn't "figured things out".
That's exactly why he should develop more in the AHL.

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03-27-2013, 06:40 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
To an extent, I do agree.

However, Lindholm is more mobile than Allen (Maybe he'll actually pass to Fowler too) and seems like he would be a perfect compliment to Fowler's game. I think it's worth a 3 game look to see if they find instant chemistry
Anaheim might be thinking the same thing, but I don't think now is the time. That seems more like an experiment for later in the season, preferrably when our playoff position is a little more secure.

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03-27-2013, 06:41 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
That's exactly why he should develop more in the AHL.
Agreed. Just like Lubo, Rafalski, Timmonen, all those guys did. I'm not the one clamoring for him to be called up.I'm defending against the people who "doubt that he'll ever make it"

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03-27-2013, 06:47 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Because we're still fighting for points, and having Fowler babysit a rookie when he's doing so well could be counterproductive?
Fowler already has to babysit all his other partners

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03-27-2013, 06:50 PM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Fowler already has to babysit all his other partners
It's not really the same, and I think Lydman has been pretty good with Fowler. Maybe not pretty good individually, but he seems to use Fowler well.

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03-27-2013, 06:50 PM
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Hahaha. 3 games and it "forgot to travel to ANA with him"? Come on. Let's give the guy a chance to get acclimated to the team before we post things like this. He was moving the puck well and got some shots on goal. All you can expect out of a rookie in a small sample size. His track record in Finland and in the AHL show that he is an elite offensive defenseman prospect. They tend to take longer than the style of player Sbisa is, and Sbisa still hasn't "figured things out".
No let's make him prove his worth in Norfolk and then give him a shot. He hasn't done that this year. I don't care what he did in the FEL. All that did was give him a chance in NA. It didn't give him a free ride to the NHL. He has to earn that and so far he hasn't. And while I agree that 3 games is far from a good sample size, nothing about those 3 games worked in his favor.

And why you think one dimensional D men take longer to develop than guys who can do so much more would seem to support your irrational exuberance for an, as yet, unproven young player. The only thing elite about Sami right now is the hype, nothing else.

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03-27-2013, 06:54 PM
  #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Lindholm/Fowler

why not try it?
Because the roster is full now at 23 players. If you want Lindholm, you need to either :
1 - send down one of Etem/Palmieri/Holland.
2 - trade a roster player.
3 - waive a roster player.

They aren't going to waive one of the current defensemen, if they lose Beleskey or Staubitz there's nobody on the roster to really replace them, and the kids are all starting. So, until there's a trade that allows a kid to be sent down (as I doubt management wants to go into the playoffs short on experienced defensemen) - no Lindholm.

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03-27-2013, 06:56 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
No let's make him prove his worth in Norfolk and then give him a shot. He hasn't done that this year. I don't care what he did in the FEL. All that did was give him a chance in NA. It didn't give him a free ride to the NHL. He has to earn that and so far he hasn't. And while I agree that 3 games is far from a good sample size, nothing about those 3 games worked in his favor.

And why you think one dimensional D men take longer to develop than guys who can do so much more would seem to support your irrational exuberance for an, as yet, unproven young player. The only thing elite about Sami right now is the hype, nothing else.
Ugh. I'm not saying he should be called up. I'm saying we should give him a chance to get acclimated to the NA game in Norfolk. When ready he should be called up to the NHL.

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03-27-2013, 07:01 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Agreed. Just like Lubo, Rafalski, Timmonen, all those guys did. I'm not the one clamoring for him to be called up.I'm defending against the people who "doubt that he'll ever make it"
No you are clamoring to get rid of Sbisa or Allen or Lydman and replace them with a totally unqualified (at this point in time) guy like Sami. You have been for a while. This isn't about will or won't Sami become a solid NHLer. It never has been. It's been about you insisting experience is overrated and Sami can do as good or better than half our current guys right now.

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03-27-2013, 07:02 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I am a Fowler fan. I was a Fowler fan since before we drafted him. He was the player I saw in the draft and said "Man, it would be so cool if we could somehow get him." Imagine my surprise when we did.

But this isn't just about Fowler, DaDucks. It's also about Sbisa. I still think Sbisa can be better than he's shown, but right now he's basically a 3rd pairing defenseman, while Fowler is very much playing at a top pairing level. The difference in their on-ice contributions right now is startling. Fowler is basically better in every way, save hitting.
Sure sbisa can be better but he's not a liability nor responsible for any losses what so ever.... I pull for sbisa because he's a piece from the Pronger trade and i would hate to revisit that trade 5 years from now and it turning out to be a complete disaster. Also he has an unbelievable right hand in the fighting department and I wish he would be allowed to play more aggressive... Just seems like he's wearing a leash every game and its hurting him.. also Allen doesn't help what so ever...

Next year fowler will be earning double of what Sbisa is making, in a sense I guess I'm just prepping the fowler crowd for the rants that will flow like crazy from my side if Luca steps up and Fowler continues to struggle in scoring. (Next year)

most of Sbisa's criticisms are when he crosses into the offensive zone... He can carry, pass the puck out of the zone just fine.. He also refuses to get beat inside which allows faster players to best him outside this year more than usual.. (Which has yet to lead to a goal against)

I would argue that Sbisa's offensive "IQ" and defensive critiques are easier to solve over time vs Fowlers shot power/accuracy and durability(new one) Thus shrinking the gap between of Fowler being twice the player overall..

Sbisa being Italian is also awesome in my book

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03-27-2013, 07:05 PM
  #891
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You think it's easier to become a smarter player than it is to improve your shot? Or that his insistence to make the same mistake, over and over again, is a positive for his future?

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03-27-2013, 07:11 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
You think it's easier to become a smarter player than it is to improve your shot? Or that his insistence to make the same mistake, over and over again, is a positive for his future?
I believe he can be coached into making better decisions when carrying the puck into the O zone.. And use quicker feet to shrink the gap between players that skate our wide against him... He's not missing much... If you've shot a puck in your life u either got it or u don't

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03-27-2013, 07:14 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by DaDucks View Post
well after seeing all of your posts on him around the other threads I would expect u to think so... Not only have u doubled down on him, you've refinanced your house on him too... what im trying to say is you might be the biggest fowler fan in the world... And I'm sure he'll be a great player, I'm not worried about him at all except for his goal scoring...
Fowler had more goals in his rookie year than Sbisa does his whole career.

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03-27-2013, 07:17 PM
  #894
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I believe he can be coached into making better decisions when carrying the puck into the O zone.. And use quicker feet to shrink the gap between players that skate our wide against him... He's not missing much... If you've shot a puck in your life u either got it or u don't
Uh, yeah... that just isn't true at all.

Improving your shot is like improving your stickhandling. It takes practice. Repetition. Kids don't just pick up a hockey stick and shoot 100 mph slapshots, or rip off Ovechkin like wrist shots. They work on it. They work hard on it. It's something that can be improved. Sidney Crosby spent an entire off-season on shooting. He invested hours into it, strictly to improve his shot. The next season he won the Rocket Richard.

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03-27-2013, 07:17 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
It's not really the same, and I think Lydman has been pretty good with Fowler. Maybe not pretty good individually, but he seems to use Fowler well.
This. Lydman, unlike Allen it seems, understands his limits and his partners limits and for the most part plays within them. Just an example, but Allen would rarely reverse the puck to Fowler but, when paired with Sbisa it is almost like he insists on doing it. I also thought Sbisa utilized Fowler very well too.

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03-27-2013, 07:17 PM
  #896
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Fowler already has to babysit all his other partners
Not when he was with Sbisa

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03-27-2013, 07:17 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
No you are clamoring to get rid of Sbisa or Allen or Lydman and replace them with a totally unqualified (at this point in time) guy like Sami. You have been for a while. This isn't about will or won't Sami become a solid NHLer. It never has been. It's been about you insisting experience is overrated and Sami can do as good or better than half our current guys right now.
No. I think he will be better than Allen soon (if he isn't already), but I don't want Sami to be called up. I do want Lindholm to be called up. The funny part is you think Allen is better than these guys just because of experience, not ability.

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03-27-2013, 07:18 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Because the roster is full now at 23 players. If you want Lindholm, you need to either :
1 - send down one of Etem/Palmieri/Holland.
2 - trade a roster player.
3 - waive a roster player.

They aren't going to waive one of the current defensemen, if they lose Beleskey or Staubitz there's nobody on the roster to really replace them, and the kids are all starting. So, until there's a trade that allows a kid to be sent down (as I doubt management wants to go into the playoffs short on experienced defensemen) - no Lindholm.
People seem to ignore this fact even though I've seen you bring it up a number of times. It makes me wonder if some people don't bother reading others posts and just post the same thing over and over again hoping it will eventually happen.

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03-27-2013, 07:21 PM
  #899
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Fowler had more goals in his rookie year than Sbisa does his whole career.
I know... I still remember his ot winner in Calgary... I'm a ducks fan..

That Cam seemed to have more confidence than this years Cam..

Never said Luca was better than Cam offensively...

Your usually a smart poster.. Not one of your best.

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03-27-2013, 07:21 PM
  #900
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People seem to ignore this fact even though I've seen you bring it up a number of times. It makes me wonder if some people don't bother reading others posts and just post the same thing over and over again hoping it will eventually happen.
What do you mean? Most people want Allen traded so we can call up Lindholm. At least I do.

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