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03-20-2013, 10:47 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
Agreed, he was OK at best. He should definitely stay on the 4th line for now and work his way up if he deserves it.
Some folks need to start evaluating him on his performance, not his potential.
Seems to me there are a couple guys here with a pretty good vision of how hockey should be played that don't evaluate players on anything but performance.

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03-20-2013, 10:54 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
Agreed, he was OK at best. He should definitely stay on the 4th line for now and work his way up if he deserves it.
Some folks need to start evaluating him on his performance, not his potential.
Be careful what you wish for. It is the Burmi critics, of whom I assume you are one, who evaluate him on his potential and find him wanting.
Those of us who are more realistic know that at his age, and compared to others in his draft class, he should be expected to be no more than a top 9 forward and evaluated as such. His numbers already reflect that and his D play is superior. Top 6 stats are gravy at this stage.

For those bemoaning the loss of Poni or failure to draft the demigod Couturier, both those players are right where Burmi is, points-wise. The majority of his draft class are just beginning their NHL careers.
I have no problem with the decision to sit Burmi--managing young players is not easy--but my esimation of his potential is unchanged: great defensive forward with significant offensive upside that will take more time to unfold. Try evaluating him on that basis for the rest of the season.

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03-20-2013, 11:08 AM
  #428
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Don't get me wrong, I like Burmi and believe he has plenty of potential, but based on his performance so far he's a 3rd liner at best.
In a perfect world he would have been given more time to develop before being thrown into the NHL, but that wasn't the case and we have to work with what we've got.

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03-20-2013, 11:13 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Be careful what you wish for. It is the Burmi critics, of whom I assume you are one, who evaluate him on his potential and find him wanting.
Those of us who are more realistic know that at his age, and compared to others in his draft class, he should be expected to be no more than a top 9 forward and evaluated as such. His numbers already reflect that and his D play is superior. Top 6 stats are gravy at this stage.

For those bemoaning the loss of Poni or failure to draft the demigod Couturier, both those players are right where Burmi is, points-wise. The majority of his draft class are just beginning their NHL careers.
I have no problem with the decision to sit Burmi--managing young players is not easy--but my esimation of his potential is unchanged: great defensive forward with significant offensive upside that will take more time to unfold. Try evaluating him on that basis for the rest of the season.
here here.

as PS has even pointed out previously, even the all-mighty-saint-our-lord-and-ultimate-savior mikhail the-star-of-all-stars granlund has failed to stick in the Show this season, and actually produced at the same rate as Alexender Burmistrov while doing elss defensively and getting more PP time.


Burmi's going to be just fine. If he can stick as a very good third c/pk center, i still don't move him, that's a valuable player. Obviously, you listen to offers, but i don't think you shop him just because he isn't one of the 40% of players taken at his draft slot that do become top 6'ers. I think thats the mentality i take issue with with the burmi critics.

Be critical, thats' fine. But don't think he needs to be traded or somehow has more value as trade bait if he never does end up with consistent top 6 production. Him being a good third liner is hardly a "bust" and is in actuality more common then not at this draft location then people seem to believe.

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03-20-2013, 11:18 AM
  #430
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If you go back and read my post I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
Agreed, he was OK at best. He should definitely stay on the 4th line for now and work his way up if he deserves it.
Some folks need to start evaluating him on his performance, not his potential.
I'm hardly calling for his head.


Last edited by Bartho: 03-20-2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason: formatting
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03-20-2013, 11:22 AM
  #431
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also if you go look at the 2010 draft class most of the first round players are still in minors or juniors, still developing

so it shouldnt be a surprise that burmistrov is as well

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03-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by jetsfan8 View Post
also if you go look at the 2010 draft class most of the first round players are still in minors or juniors, still developing

so it shouldnt be a surprise that burmistrov is as well
Not hard to argue that Burmi has out-performed 11 of the top 15 picks from that draft.

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03-20-2013, 11:37 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
If only Noel wasn't such a moron and would put Burmi on the top line. We'd be Cup contenders for sure!
Yes, clearly putting Burmi on the 1st line is the only other option.

Noel's got the team playing an effective system and that's great...but his player management is questionable. For example:

When's Jokinen going to get benched for a game or 18 and then busted down to the 4th to earn his way back up? Never? Maybe he just needs more PP time - oh wait, he's 2nd on the team in PP ice time. Well, at least he's got...9 points in 30 games? Ok, ok, but defensively he's been... a team worst -12?

Also smart player management to keep the fresh legs in the pressbox for that Ottawa game. I guess 3 games wasn't quite enough message-sending for Burmi.

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03-20-2013, 11:39 AM
  #434
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Not hard to argue that Burmi has out-performed 11 of the top 15 picks from that draft.
Ya, but he's also just 175 pounds so... And, it doesn't even matter that he is 2nd in the team in hits for forwards (3rd on the team overall) only to Evander Kane, because he is just 175 pounds. Burmistrov's hit pace, for whatever it may be worth, is 180 hits over 78 games. Last year, that would rank him 26th overall in forwards across the league. Right in company with Getzlaf, Hartnell, Cole, Foligno, Kunitz, E. Kane.

Of course hits aren't the be all, end all, nor do they tell the whole story of a player. Some players have less hits and are much more of a physical force than Burmistrov is or ever will be. I don't even consider Burmistrov a physical force, but I think his hit totals at least indicate he isn't soft, and from watching him I think he is a pretty effective chippy, aggressive player who does not shy away. And, he initiates contact, which is a plus.


For every or any flaw Burmistrov may or may not have, depending on who you talk to, I really do not believe his size hinders him.

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03-20-2013, 11:45 AM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Yes, clearly putting Burmi on the 1st line is the only other option.

Noel's got the team playing an effective system and that's great...but his player management is questionable. For example:

When's Jokinen going to get benched for a game or 18 and then busted down to the 4th to earn his way back up? Never? Maybe he just needs more PP time - oh wait, he's 2nd on the team in PP ice time. Well, at least he's got...9 points in 30 games? Ok, ok, but defensively he's been... a team worst -12?

Also smart player management to keep the fresh legs in the pressbox for that Ottawa game. I guess 3 games wasn't quite enough message-sending for Burmi.
While I don't think Burmie has done much with the top 6 minutes he's been given some Noel's player decisions are pretty questionable. I don't like how he handles his goalies or how he's too quick to resort to three lines. Most other playoff teams can run four lines pretty effectively.

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03-20-2013, 11:49 AM
  #436
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Why the continual comparisons to other players taken in his draft year? He is no longer considered to be a prospect, but rather, is a veteran of 176 NHL regular season games played. He is nearly half way to qualifying for a full NHL pension (400 games played IIRC). As a vet, the players he needs to be compared to are all of the other players in the league, not his draft class. Here is how he compares against NHL players this season by those metrics:

2012-2013 SEASON STATISTICS
Season GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
Regular Season 26 3 4 7 6 12 0 0 0 34 8.8
LEAGUE RANK 311th 251st 340th 326th 78th 300th 270th 50th 240th 318th 294th

Pretty much the pedestrian numbers one would expect from a 3rd/4th line - specialty teams player. Hope he picks it up soon.

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03-20-2013, 11:54 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Why the continual comparisons to other players taken in his draft year? He is no longer considered to be a prospect, but rather, is a veteran of 176 NHL regular season games played. He is nearly half way to qualifying for a full NHL pension (400 games played IIRC). As a vet, the players he needs to be compared to are all of the other players in the league, not his draft class. Here is how he compares against NHL players this season by those metrics:

2012-2013 SEASON STATISTICS
Season GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
Regular Season 26 3 4 7 6 12 0 0 0 34 8.8
LEAGUE RANK 311th 251st 340th 326th 78th 300th 270th 50th 240th 318th 294th

Pretty much the pedestrian numbers one would expect from a 3rd/4th line - specialty teams player. Hope he picks it up soon.

haha, thats hilarious
burmie is still on his entry level contract, other players in his draft class were rookies this year

i hope youre kidding, because there is no way i can take you seriously after that comment
burmis a veteran?
burmi is very much so a prospect, and this year should have been his rookie year(but atlanta wrecked him)

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03-20-2013, 11:54 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Why the continual comparisons to other players taken in his draft year? He is no longer considered to be a prospect, but rather, is a veteran of 176 NHL regular season games played. He is nearly half way to qualifying for a full NHL pension (400 games played IIRC). As a vet, the players he needs to be matched up against are all of the other players in the league, not his draft class. Here is how he compares against NHL players this season by those metrics.

2012-2013 SEASON STATISTICS
Season GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
Regular Season 26 3 4 7 6 12 0 0 0 34 8.8
LEAGUE RANK 311th 251st 340th 326th 78th 300th 270th 50th 240th 318th 294th

Pretty much the pedestrian numbers one would expect from a 3rd/4th line - specialty teams player. Hope he picks it up soon.

I think you're overrating games played. You should also remember he is still in the final year of his entry level contract. You're being far too hard on such a young player, in my opinion.

The comparison to Bogosian during his entry level contract/games played made the other day was a great comparison.

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03-20-2013, 11:55 AM
  #439
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and as for the stats you pulled up, those types of bumbers are expected when you play on a line with guys like thorburn

place this guy on a line with kane and wheeler/ladd, and then we would see the real burmi

he is not a 4th line player, but thats how we are using him

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03-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #440
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I think you're overrating games played. You should also remember he is still in the final year of his entry level contract. You're being far too hard on such a young player, in my opinion.

The comparison to Bogosian during his entry level contract/games played made the other day was a great comparison.
His contract status is moot. Those stats compare his performance against his true peer group - other NHL players.

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03-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
His contract status is moot. Those stats compare his performance against his true peer group - other NHL players.
Moot? No. It all factors in.

You're just looking at things through your own microscope, in my opinion. Very closed minded.

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03-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by jetsfan8 View Post
and as for the stats you pulled up, those types of bumbers are expected when you play on a line with guys like thorburn

place this guy on a line with kane and wheeler/ladd, and then we would see the real burmi

he is not a 4th line player, but thats how we are using him
He's played 1 frickin game on the fourth line, he's been on the 2nd or 3rd line the rest of the season with decent minutes but didn't produce squat.

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03-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Why the continual comparisons to other players taken in his draft year? He is no longer considered to be a prospect, but rather, is a veteran of 176 NHL regular season games played. He is nearly half way to qualifying for a full NHL pension (400 games played IIRC). As a vet, the players he needs to be compared to are all of the other players in the league, not his draft class. Here is how he compares against NHL players this season by those metrics:

2012-2013 SEASON STATISTICS
Season GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
Regular Season 26 3 4 7 6 12 0 0 0 34 8.8
LEAGUE RANK 311th 251st 340th 326th 78th 300th 270th 50th 240th 318th 294th

Pretty much the pedestrian numbers one would expect from a 3rd/4th line - specialty teams player. Hope he picks it up soon.
I don't understand how anyone can say:


He was rushed, he should have been in the AHL and acknowledge that his development was slowed as a result.

AND

Those same people expect him to be farther ahead than other players from his draft class.


If his development was slowed AND he is still ahead of players in his draft class, that is a good thing. Any other logic is plain odd.

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03-20-2013, 12:01 PM
  #444
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haha, thats hilarious
burmie is still on his entry level contract, other players in his draft class were rookies this year

i hope youre kidding, because there is no way i can take you seriously after that comment
burmis a veteran?
burmi is very much so a prospect, and this year should have been his rookie year(but atlanta wrecked him)
Speaking of difficult to take seriously, you just stated that "Atlanta wrecked him".

But on the previous page you said...

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chevy is building a young team, so why trade his best young player?
answer. he isnt gonna
You are all over the place, man. What is it, is he their best young player, or "wrecked"?

Kane is their best young player BTW. Burmistrov's stats though are indicative of the sort of pedestrian numbers one should expect from a 3rd/4th line - specialty teams player, as evidenced by their standing against other players in the league.

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03-20-2013, 12:02 PM
  #445
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Moot? No. It all factors in.

You're just looking at things through your own microscope, in my opinion. Very closed minded.
I'm not being close-minded at all; his performance as a vet of 176 regular season games currently is what it is, rather pedestrian. Hope he picks it up soon, and promptly at that.

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03-20-2013, 12:06 PM
  #446
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He's played 1 frickin game on the fourth line, he's been on the 2nd or 3rd line the rest of the season with decent minutes but didn't produce squat.
who did he play with before the benching
antro and who?

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03-20-2013, 12:08 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I'm not being close-minded at all; his performance as a vet of 176 regular season games currently is what it is, rather pedestrian.
Irregardless of whether he should have been in the NHL or not (he shouldn't have been) the fact is he has played 176 regular games and aside from improving his defensive play hasn't shown much else and the jury is out on whether he will ever amount to more than a bottom 6 player. Don't really think that's a knock if you have a long successful career in that role, it's just some of you guys want him to be something he isn't, he will not be the next Pavel Datsyuk or Patrick Kane.

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03-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
His contract status is moot. Those stats compare his performance against his true peer group - other NHL players.
Here's his true peer group:

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/birth...n-in-1991.html

6th in GP, 6th in G, 8th in A, 8th in Pts. Bust.

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03-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #449
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who did he play with before the benching
antro and who?
Kane and Jokinen

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03-20-2013, 12:10 PM
  #450
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Speaking of difficult to take seriously, you just stated that "Atlanta wrecked him".

But on the previous page you said...



You are all over the place, man. What is it, is he their best young player, or "wrecked"?

Kane is their best young player BTW. Burmistrov's stats though are indicative of the sort of pedestrian numbers one should expect from a 3rd/4th line - specialty teams player, as evidenced by their standing against other players in the league.

just because atlanta wrecked his complete potential doesnt mean he doesnt still have potential
i agree that kane is our best young player, but burmi has the potential to be our best

atlanta wrecked his development, doesnt mean he isnt still a very valuable player

you calling burmistrov a "vet" is just absurd, he is years away from being anyting close to a "vet"

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