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Cole's Plus/Minus: The Sid, Fleury, & Geno Show (Pens vs. Lightning)

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Old
03-04-2013, 10:35 PM
  #126
PensFan68
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Ya him and Vitale has been so bad. I know theirs allot of love for Vitale on here but Vitale and Glass are each minus 8 they dont even play that many minutes. Every time our 4th line is out their its like a pp for the other team their trapped in our own end the entire shift. Shero needs to do something about this u can get 4th line guys that can help you for late round draft picks.
Vitale creates and is visable. I don't care what his +/- is, I feel he's been a great sparkplug.

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03-04-2013, 10:36 PM
  #127
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Just saw the highlights (on a business trip in Philly) and holy crap was Geno's goal sick! So mad I missed the game haha

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03-04-2013, 10:36 PM
  #128
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Jiggy, Neal hasn't really played a power game since he got suspended in Dallas for boarding Derek Dorsett.
I was quite pleased with his game when he first got traded here. He doesn't have to put guys through the board to be a dominant player.

He just needs to do what he did in period one tonight.

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03-04-2013, 10:36 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Ya him and Vitale has been so bad. I know theirs allot of love for Vitale on here but Vitale and Glass are each minus 8 they dont even play that many minutes. Every time our 4th line is out their its like a pp for the other team their trapped in our own end the entire shift. Shero needs to do something about this u can get 4th line guys that can help you for late round draft picks.
It's not going to matter as long as Bylsma insists on throwing the 4th line out there against other teams' best players. It's not even like other coaches have to plan it out, he does it intentionally.

They have the makings of a good crash and bang energy line, they're not going to be a shutdown line. It's beyond stupid.

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03-04-2013, 10:38 PM
  #130
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So he's selfish for being mad he got boarded and nothing happened? Did it work out for us? Yes, but if not then everyone would be whining there was no call.

I'm sorry, but you're the second person to mention that he was selfish here and it's quite annoying to me. People are just looking for any possible reason to criticize him. The guy got boarded for christ sake and the refs let it go. With all the tacky boarding calls this year, it should've been called.

Like I said, I know it wasn't and it turned out good, but I can see why Orpik was pissed.
Lecavalier "boarded" Orpik only in the same sense that Kunitz "boarded" a couple of those guys he hit square in the logo while they had the puck at the beginning of the year.

The only thing wrong with that hit was Orpik whining to Walkom for not blowing the play dead due to an injury that didn't actually happen.

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03-04-2013, 10:39 PM
  #131
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I was quite pleased with his game when he first got traded here. He doesn't have to put guys through the board to be dominant player.
First got here? Yeah, I can see that, but do you think there was more to it than the 'traded to a new team spark' thing? But, he's become a bigger Petr Sykora out there with Malkin. I suppose that reality is why I'm all ginned up about seeing Shero get Malkin his Malone/playoff Talbot/Kunitz for the other wing.

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03-04-2013, 10:39 PM
  #132
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Just saw the highlights (on a business trip in Philly) and holy crap was Geno's goal sick! So mad I missed the game haha
yeah, it was a great goal for sure.

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03-04-2013, 10:45 PM
  #133
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It's not going to matter as long as Bylsma insists on throwing the 4th line out there against other teams' best players. It's not even like other coaches have to plan it out, he does it intentionally.

They have the makings of a good crash and bang energy line, they're not going to be a shutdown line. It's beyond stupid.
Ya i agree thats a problem but even when their not up against the other teams 1st line they still spend their shift defending in their own end. I think your gonna see bb on 2nd line cooke back to 3rd line and DJ on 4th line thur maybe that will help and i know its the 4th line and its not gonna do much but it cant be this bad.

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03-04-2013, 10:53 PM
  #134
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Trade him to Minnesota for big Mike Rupp.
I'd rather dump him for cap space, play Jeffrey with Vitale and Adams, get Bennett back up here and add a top two line winger at the deadline. I guess I'd take Rupp if we had to take a player back in return for Glass but I doubt the Wild would do it. The Wild got Rupp to add more size and toughness. I doubt they want to go back on that now.

I think Vancouver wanted Glass in UFA and he's played there before and done fine. Maybe they'd take him back. Otherwise we may have to try to get him thrown into a bigger deal as a cap dump if we can actually make a bigger deal.

Edit: Dump Kennedy too.

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03-04-2013, 10:54 PM
  #135
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First got here? Yeah, I can see that, but do you think there was more to it than the 'traded to a new team spark' thing? But, he's become a bigger Petr Sykora out there with Malkin. I suppose that reality is why I'm all ginned up about seeing Shero get Malkin his Malone/playoff Talbot/Kunitz for the other wing.
No, it was a "I don't have a star player to do everything" thing.

I keep saying it, but the fundamentals of great skating involve your feet constantly moving. Neal showed exactly how beastly he can be if he just exerts himself every shift and keeps his feet moving.

Hit, peel, move. Dont make lazy circles. Stop, kick out and chase. Skate through the defender to the puck. Engage yourself and dont be denied the puck. He has no thirst for the puck. He is happy to let others get it for him. I'm so weary of watching him waste his talent by playing lazy hockey. Crosby, Vitale, Malkin will sacrifice their bodies to get to every loose puck. When can you say that about Neal?

How many times does he go back to the bench and his lungs are burning like they should be?

Not nearly enough... That's all I know.

It really pisses me off to watch. Seeing him show what he can in the first and come out and play like a buster after that... again.... man up James. Watching him has me pissed off... Goals mean dick when you play lazy hockey. It's unacceptable.

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03-04-2013, 10:55 PM
  #136
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I'd rather dump him for cap space, play Jeffrey with Vitale and Adams, get Bennett back up here and add a top two line winger at the deadline. I guess I'd take Rupp if we had to take a player back in return for Glass but I doubt the Wild would do it. The Wild got Rupp to get more size and toughness. I doubt they want to go back on that now.

I think Vancouver wanted Glass in UFA and he's played there before and done fine. Maybe they'd take him back. Otherwise we may have to try to get him thrown into a bigger deal as a cap dump if we can actually make a bigger deal.

Edit: Dump Kennedy too.
Ideally you'd want to see someone on the 4th line "tougher" than DJ. However, I'd put him there over Glass in a heartbeat. Why are Glass/TK playing everyday and DJ isn't?

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03-04-2013, 10:55 PM
  #137
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Vitale creates and is visable. I don't care what his +/- is, I feel he's been a great sparkplug.
Vitale really hasn't had a good game in about 10-12 games now. The only thing I noticed him do tonight, when he wasn't chasing dudes around in the defensive zone, was a pass he made to the left point from below the goal line. Too bad the defenseman wasn't actually there, he was changing up and the puck went all the way back to Fleury.

Every once in a while he has a decent shift which is met by heavy sighs and gasps and the mad dash for tissues around here, but he's really not having a good season. He can win faceoffs, but that's about all I can say about him at the moment. The fourth line issues are just as much about him as they are about Glass and Adams.

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03-04-2013, 10:56 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I agree with all the comments about Eaton's smart stick, but his skating scares me. He's not very fast or mobile and gets turned around pretty easy off the rush. He can't skate the puck out of trouble, so he'll have to be clinical in his d-to-ds and breakout passes.

Not writing the guy off and he could be a decent 7th for us, but I really don't want him seeing regular minutes when we're healthy. Talk of him making Niskanen expendable is way, way premature.
The way Eaton played the last 2 games kinda reminded me of Scuds a little.....you never hear his name, and he doesn't do anything to wow you most nights. He just keeps the other team off of the scoreboard. Maybe that is exactly what this D unit needs?

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03-04-2013, 10:59 PM
  #139
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Ideally you'd want to see someone on the 4th line "tougher" than DJ. However, I'd put him there over Glass in a heartbeat. Why are Glass/TK playing everyday and DJ isn't?
No idea.

If we get another top two line winger and keep Bennett in the lineup than Matt Cooke could be dropped down to the 4th line for toughness. You could even flip him and Jeffrey in the lineup if you prefer Jeffrey's offense on line 3 to Cooke's.

Kunitz Crosby Dupuis/Trade
Trade/Kunitz Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Bennett
Cooke Vitale Adams

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03-04-2013, 10:59 PM
  #140
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Vitale really hasn't had a good game in about 10-12 games now. The only thing I noticed him do tonight, when he wasn't chasing dudes around in the defensive zone, was a pass he made to the left point from below the goal line. Too bad the defenseman wasn't actually there, he was changing up and the puck went all the way back to Fleury.

Every once in a while he has a decent shift which is met by heavy sighs and gasps and the mad dash for tissues around here, but he's really not having a good season. He can win faceoffs, but that's about all I can say about him at the moment. The fourth line issues are just as much about him as they are about Glass and Adams.
I see him in the corners digging for the puck, trying to set a tempo, and killing time off the clock. He can't help it his linemates can't cycle the puck. He hits and plays a sound game when not against the other teams top line.

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03-04-2013, 11:02 PM
  #141
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The way Eaton played the last 2 games kinda reminded me of Scuds a little.....you never hear his name, and he doesn't do anything to wow you most nights. He just keeps the other team off of the scoreboard. Maybe that is exactly what this D unit needs?


Yup!! I've been saying for about a year now we needed a physical defensive dman. While Eaton is NOT the physical part, he's the perfect defensive dman. He may not be fleet of foot, but he stills works his way into position. Adding another dman like him (prefer someone who'll hit/clear front of the net) would be a HUGE addition!

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03-04-2013, 11:03 PM
  #142
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For all the talk of Bylsma "not adjusting to other coaches", McGuire actually had a solid observation. He said we made a concerted team effort to exploit the high slot vs. Tampa, and it's shown in the chances we've created and the goals we've scored against them the last couple games.

I know that whenever we lose it's the system and whenever we win it's in spite of our system because our stars were great, but it sure sounded right.

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03-04-2013, 11:03 PM
  #143
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I see him in the corners digging for the puck, trying to set a tempo, and killing time off the clock. He can't help it his linemates can't cycle the puck. He hits and plays a sound game when not against the other teams top line.
He doesn't hit, among the regular forwards only Crosby, Malkin and Sutter are credited with fewer hits. Digging in the corners is something every fourth liner does, Adams and Glass do that. How often does Vitale actually win those kind of battles?

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03-04-2013, 11:03 PM
  #144
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The way Eaton played the last 2 games kinda reminded me of Scuds a little.....you never hear his name, and he doesn't do anything to wow you most nights. He just keeps the other team off of the scoreboard. Maybe that is exactly what this D unit needs?
I actually thought of Scuds and Gill, not as physical, but really attacking people with his stick and getting away with it..

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03-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #145
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No, it was a "I don't have a star player to do everything" thing.

I keep saying it, but the fundamentals of great skating involve your feet constantly moving. Neal showed exactly how beastly he can be if he just exerts himself every shift and keeps his feet moving.

Hit, peel, move. Dont make lazy circles. Stop, kick out and chase. Skate through the defender to the puck. Engage yourself and dont be denied the puck. He has no thirst for the puck. He is happy to let others get it for him. I'm so weary of watching him waste his talent by playing lazy hockey. Crosby, Vitale, Malkin will sacrifice their bodies to get to every loose puck. When can you say that about Neal?

How many times does he go back to the bench and his lungs are burning like they should be?

Not nearly enough... That's all I know.

It really pisses me off to watch. Seeing him show what he can in the first and come out and play like a buster after that... again.... man up James. Watching him has me pissed off... Goals mean dick when you play lazy hockey. It's unacceptable.
Hey, I'm right there with you. I've been saying all year, for as much as people ***** about how badly Kunitz and/or Dupuis have played in some games, either one of them does more than Neal (aside from the shot).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
For all the talk of Bylsma "not adjusting to other coaches", McGuire actually had a solid observation. He said we made a concerted team effort to exploit the high slot vs. Tampa, and it's shown in the chances we've created and the goals we've scored against them the last couple games.

I know that whenever we lose it's the system and whenever we win it's in spite of our system because our stars were great, but it sure sounded right.
Yes, we made a concerted effort to exploit the high slot versus Tampa. And, by the same token, I've heard McGuire go on and on about how Lavs coaches Bylsma out of the rink with his adjustments. What's your point, then? The Pens exploited the high slot, TB didn't adjust, ergo Bylsma won't coach the Pens out of the playoffs.

I'll give him props. It's a nice adjustment. I've seen them attack other teams from behind the net. But, this really is getting like people got with Boychuk or Tangradi, where you try to cite one or two positive things from a game to make a general conclusion.

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03-04-2013, 11:10 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
For all the talk of Bylsma "not adjusting to other coaches", McGuire actually had a solid observation. He said we made a concerted team effort to exploit the high slot vs. Tampa, and it's shown in the chances we've created and the goals we've scored against them the last couple games.

I know that whenever we lose it's the system and whenever we win it's in spite of our system because our stars were great, but it sure sounded right.
He does seem to know what's what in the offensive zone

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03-04-2013, 11:13 PM
  #147
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Yes, we made a concerted effort to exploit the high slot versus Tampa. And, by the same token, I've heard McGuire go on and on about how Lavs coaches Bylsma out of the rink with his adjustments. What's your point, then? The Pens exploited the high slot, TB didn't adjust, ergo Bylsma won't coach the Pens out of the playoffs.

I'll give him props. It's a nice adjustment. I've seen them attack other teams from behind the net. But, this really is getting like people got with Boychuk or Tangradi, where you try to cite one or two positive things from a game to make a general conclusion.
I think it shows that Bylsma may be just a little more savvy in terms of observations and adjustments than the oaken-brained lummox he's usually portrayed as.

I mean, a Bylsma-coached team even exploited a team coached by the infallible defensive genius Michel Therrien. The stretch pass is so easy to defend, you'd think the Habs would've picked up on it right away.

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03-04-2013, 11:14 PM
  #148
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He doesn't hit, among the regular forwards only Crosby, Malkin and Sutter are credited with fewer hits. Digging in the corners is something every fourth liner does, Adams and Glass do that. How often does Vitale actually win those kind of battles?
Quite often actually, with no one to pass it to to start a cycle. Does he end up losing the puck? Yes, but that's because 1 against 2/3 usually doesn't work out well.

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03-04-2013, 11:18 PM
  #149
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It seems we're a little hard on Neal here too. Our 25 year old 1st Team All-Star is 2nd in goals in the league. Well, so what?

Why doesn't he have the motor and consistency of a grinder too? Lazy *******.

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03-04-2013, 11:19 PM
  #150
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It seems we're a little hard on Neal here too. Our 25 year old 1st Team All-Star is 2nd in goals in the league. Well, so what?

Why doesn't he have the motor and consistency of a grinder too? Lazy *******.
There is way more to hockey than scoring goals.

Unreal.

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