HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Non-Sports > Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated" Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal

The End of Hugo Chavez?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2013, 11:07 AM
  #151
DaSystem
Registered User
 
DaSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombers15 View Post
But American oil companies weren't able to operate there.
That's news to Shell and Chevron.

May this anti-imperialistic steed ride on for evermore.

Edit: and to be clear, Shell is not american, but I don't understand how can one dislike say ConocoPhillips, and let shell operate in Venezuela, and then say that one's against capitalistic meddling. It's BS.


Last edited by DaSystem: 03-06-2013 at 11:15 AM.
DaSystem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #152
Johnnywhite
Registered User
 
Johnnywhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: White Hart Lane
Posts: 4,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfGom View Post
I don't understand what is this "Chavez was resistant to American business interests" business. Large part of Venezuela's income was and will come from oil sold to the US, and he needed that income because he kept giving oil away.
Correct about 6% of US oil imports both before & during Chavez's presidency. What he was 'resistant to' was the 'plantation' mentality he perceived from the US towards Latin America, companies like United Fruit & the big sugar & coffee outfits. That was actually the gist of the book he gave to Obama at their first(?) meeting.

Johnnywhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 11:23 AM
  #153
bombers15
5-14-6-1
 
bombers15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfGom View Post
That's news to Shell and Chevron.

May this anti-imperialistic steed ride on for evermore.

Edit: and to be clear, Shell is not american, but I don't understand how can one dislike say ConocoPhillips, and let shell operate in Venezuela, and then say that one's against capitalistic meddling. It's BS.
Chavez nationalized the oil industry in 2007, resulting in many companies not being able to reach an agreement with the government. But you're right, some were apparently able to keep operating in Venezuela.

Regardless, it's not hard to see how nationalization was generally bad for business. The oil companies didn't like this. They also didn't like having their off-shore platforms nationalized and taken over by Venezuela.

bombers15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 11:30 AM
  #154
DaSystem
Registered User
 
DaSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombers15 View Post
Chavez nationalized the oil industry in 2007, resulting in many companies not being able to reach an agreement with the government. But you're right, some were apparently able to keep operating in Venezuela.

Regardless, it's not hard to see how nationalization was generally bad for business. The oil companies didn't like this. They also didn't like having their off-shore platforms nationalized and taken over by Venezuela.
The oil industry was nationalized in 1976 by the evil gocho goblin Carlos Andres Perez.

DaSystem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 11:42 AM
  #155
bombers15
5-14-6-1
 
bombers15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfGom View Post
The oil industry was nationalized in 1976 by the evil gocho goblin Carlos Andres Perez.
Right. Duh. I was reading this article earlier today, and its wording was funny. But it was just saying that nationalization resulted in ConocoPhillips and Exxon leaving in 2007.

Anyway. I don't think it's that controversial to say that American oil companies didn't love Chavez.

bombers15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 11:48 AM
  #156
Johnnywhite
Registered User
 
Johnnywhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: White Hart Lane
Posts: 4,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombers15 View Post
Right. Duh. I was reading this article earlier today, and its wording was funny. But it was just saying that nationalization resulted in ConocoPhillips and Exxon leaving in 2007.

Anyway. I don't think it's that controversial to say that American oil companies didn't love Chavez.
The nationalisation of the energy sector was actually started in 1971 by the predecessor of Perez, who put expiry limits on a lot of gas & oil concessions.

Johnnywhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 11:51 AM
  #157
DaSystem
Registered User
 
DaSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnywhite View Post
The nationalisation of the energy sector was actually started in 1971 by the predecessor of Perez, who put expiry limits on a lot of gas & oil concessions.
Yes, Caldera, the right-wing version of CAP. The nationalization was finished in 1976, along with the creation of PDVSA, either in 1975 or 1976, I don't remember exactly.

DaSystem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 04:24 PM
  #158
Ilkka Sinisalo
Amazing American
 
Ilkka Sinisalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Perth, W.A.
Country: Australia
Posts: 13,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peon View Post
It's not hatred of Chavez, it's hatred of the people who loved him, justified everything and yet never spent a DAY in Venezuela as anything but a tourist (if at all). It's like the people who talked (and still do talk) about how great communism was in Eastern Europe and Russia and yet they never spent a day under any communist regime.

And FYI there's more dictators then a handful in the Arab world and 1 in North Korea.

It's funny you and the Australian idiot keep trying to pigeonhole people into small little groups so you can dismiss it.
Is this your schtick, just throw around dumb statements and insults? It's like a less educated version of minimalist.

Ilkka Sinisalo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 05:14 PM
  #159
bombers15
5-14-6-1
 
bombers15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,361
vCash: 500
I also love the "you have no right to comment because you don't live in Venezuela" argument.

First of all, it's crap. But second of all, if you actually want to use that measuring stick, then Chavez was apparently awesome. Venezuelans sort of elected him and reelected him.

bombers15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 05:35 PM
  #160
Loose Sens
Drafting my Overalls
 
Loose Sens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombers15 View Post
I also love the "you have no right to comment because you don't live in Venezuela" argument.

First of all, it's crap. But second of all, if you actually want to use that measuring stick, then Chavez was apparently awesome. Venezuelans sort of elected him and reelected him.
Last time I checked it was you and the other loon from Australia were the ones throwing around accusations, not me. I'm pointing out a reality - there are people out there who do the exact opposite of what you're accusing me and others of (LOL, you nutjobs).

Chavez was nuts (crazy like NYRFAN88), the only improvements to the economy and poverty were a direct result of an oil boom around the world and being LUCKY to live on top of some oil.

Other than being in the right place at the right time, what has he done? Nothing. Even with the oil money, inflation is rampant, there were often shortages of some pretty basic goods.

Also Americans elected George Bush twice. I guess he was great too, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Is this your schtick, just throw around dumb statements and insults? It's like a less educated version of minimalist.
It could be worse. I could be you.

Loose Sens is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 08:04 AM
  #161
Vyacheslav
Pro
 
Vyacheslav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dat mitten
Country: United States
Posts: 16,550
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vyacheslav
The argument isn't that he was a good guy because he was elected four times, it's that he was a democratically elected leader and not a dictator. Same applies to George W. Bush.

Vyacheslav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 09:52 AM
  #162
Ilkka Sinisalo
Amazing American
 
Ilkka Sinisalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Perth, W.A.
Country: Australia
Posts: 13,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peon View Post
It could be worse. I could be you.
Really? Because I'm intelligent, live a happy life in a beautiful country and don't routinely embarrass myself on an internet message board. That sounds like an upgrade from your situation.

Ilkka Sinisalo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 10:28 AM
  #163
bombers15
5-14-6-1
 
bombers15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peon View Post
Also Americans elected George Bush twice. I guess he was great too, right?
Uh, you missed the point. In a previous post you suggested that no one can have an opinion on Chavez unless they live in Venezuela. Which is a ridiculous thing to say. And it defeats your larger point since the majority of people that live in Venezuela actually like him. So....

bombers15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:06 AM
  #164
Chileiceman
Registered User
 
Chileiceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Chile
Posts: 9,098
vCash: 500
It's not just Americans who disliked this guy. He was reviled in Chile and in large pockets of South America. Him and his buddy Evo and Bolivia and Cristina in Argentina seem to think they are these great revolutionaries. They're not. They're just as greedy and corrupt as any of the past American puppet presidents, except they pander to the poor.

Chileiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:34 PM
  #165
Yoshimitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peon View Post

Also Americans elected George Bush twice.
Well, that's debatable.

Yoshimitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 04:49 PM
  #166
Mike Emrick
Moderator
Corsi's right
 
Mike Emrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Engelland
Posts: 205,807
vCash: 500
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...avez-dies?lite

Quote:
Days before the election he would win with 54 percent of the vote to his opponent’s 45 percent, he spoke to a rally of supporters in Caracas, displaying the trademark swagger that had made him one of Latin America’s most captivating, if polarizing, leaders.

"Since I haven’t failed you in these 14 years," he said, according to the Associated Press. "I promise I won’t fail you in the next presidential term.

"Because Chavez doesn’t lie. Because Chavez doesn’t sell out. Because Chavez is the people. Because Chavez is truth. Because all of you are Chavez. We all are."
He hated America, but boy could he really speak

Mike Emrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 04:59 PM
  #167
Epsilon
#TeamRaccoon
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 39,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...avez-dies?lite



He hated America, but boy could he really speak
Quote:
"Because Chavez doesn’t lie. Because Chavez doesn’t sell out. Because Chavez is the people. Because Chavez is truth. Because all of you are Chavez. We all are."
That sounds like a wrestling promo.

Epsilon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 05:05 PM
  #168
Sirquacksalot
ˇViva Los Patos!
 
Sirquacksalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Mojave
Posts: 5,793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peon View Post

Also Americans elected George Bush twice.

Once.

Sirquacksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 06:50 PM
  #169
DaSystem
Registered User
 
DaSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
That sounds like a wrestling promo.
If you heard it in spanish it sounded more like a wifebeater saying sorry to his wife. But that's ok, because according to the unconstitutionally established "President-in-charge," Chavez talked Jesus into making the next pope a latinamerican....

DaSystem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 08:04 PM
  #170
Hockeyfan2390
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirquacksalot View Post
Once.
How many dead people were allowed to vote for Bush multiple times?

Hockeyfan2390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 07:43 AM
  #171
Ozamataz Buckshank
Registered User
 
Ozamataz Buckshank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...avez-dies?lite



He hated America, but boy could he really speak
Another thing he has in common with Obama

Ozamataz Buckshank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 07:58 AM
  #172
slip
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Really? Because I'm intelligent, live a happy life in a beautiful country and don't routinely embarrass myself on an internet message board. That sounds like an upgrade from your situation.


Couldn't resist.

slip is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 10:42 AM
  #173
Doppler Drift
Registered User
 
Doppler Drift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chileiceman View Post
It's not just Americans who disliked this guy. He was reviled in Chile and in large pockets of South America. Him and his buddy Evo and Bolivia and Cristina in Argentina seem to think they are these great revolutionaries. They're not. They're just as greedy and corrupt as any of the past American puppet presidents, except they pander to the poor.
Spaniards love him too. Ex Prime minister Zapatero and King Juan Carlos have a special place in their hearts for him as well.



What a Statesman!

Doppler Drift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 11:21 PM
  #174
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The lunatic fridge
Country: Finland
Posts: 49,576
vCash: 500
Still no mention in this thread of Chavez amassing a billion dollar fortune as president?

Jussi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2013, 08:36 AM
  #175
slip
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Still no mention in this thread of Chavez amassing a billion dollar fortune as president?
Probably not mentioned since the only source for this alleged fact hails from the wing nut peanut gallery, and yourself, which may very well be the same thing as far as I know.

slip is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.