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03-05-2013, 02:33 PM
  #51
Liberati0n
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Hannan was another guy scapegoated as he left town.
Really? By whom specifically? I don't recall any public comments about him at all.

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03-05-2013, 02:33 PM
  #52
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Hunter was a great coach He had standards. He made men out of a very soft team. They beat the big and bad SC champion Bruins! If Dale would've suited up for that all-time NHL worst PP in the end against the Rags he would've at least got the puck in the O zone. He may have scored!
We'll have to agree to disagree. But maybe its just me and the fact that I hate 50/50 hockey. I love Beagle. But he shouldn't be playing more than Ovechkin.

I'm still bitter. I'm frustrated. I still can't believe we lost that Montreal series despite utter domination. I haven't recovered from that.

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03-05-2013, 02:34 PM
  #53
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Knoobs and Olie were losing it. The Caps handled both poorly by not anticipating it. Ted and George can't anticipate thunder from lightning.

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03-05-2013, 02:37 PM
  #54
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Are people seriously already forgetting how bad this team looked right before Boudreau was fired? It was pathetic. They got smoked by a Buffalo team missing Miller, Myers, Ennis, Regehr, Boyes, McCormick, Kaleta, Weber, and Stafford. They gave up 3 or more goals in the eight games leading up to Bruce being fired. BB had definitely lost the room. The team wasn't playing hard, wasn't sticking to his system, and was getting destroyed night in and night out.

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03-05-2013, 02:39 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
Really? By whom specifically? I don't recall any public comments about him at all.
He was blamed a lot for an awful line change during game 3(?) of the Tampa sweep. But that's about it.

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03-05-2013, 02:42 PM
  #56
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Ted the Humanitarian has also continues to lead us Capitals fans to misery.

The unhappy players get paid, at least. We fans pay AND suffer.

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03-05-2013, 02:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
He was blamed a lot for an awful line change during game 3(?) of the Tampa sweep. But that's about it.

Yep. Hannan was a solid D man for us. He missed one read and everyone hated him.

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03-05-2013, 02:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Are people seriously already forgetting how bad this team looked right before Boudreau was fired? It was pathetic. They got smoked by a Buffalo team missing Miller, Myers, Ennis, Regehr, Boyes, McCormick, Kaleta, Weber, and Stafford. They gave up 3 or more goals in the eight games leading up to Bruce being fired. BB had definitely lost the room. The team wasn't playing hard, wasn't sticking to his system, and was getting destroyed night in and night out.
That's why a franchise-shaking trade was needed. Semin would have garnered a decent return at the time and it would have rocked the lockerroom.

Instead, we scapegoated a good coach (which happens too often in hockey). Glad he's moved on and successful elsewhere.

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03-05-2013, 02:46 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Are people seriously already forgetting how bad this team looked right before Boudreau was fired? It was pathetic. They got smoked by a Buffalo team missing Miller, Myers, Ennis, Regehr, Boyes, McCormick, Kaleta, Weber, and Stafford. They gave up 3 or more goals in the eight games leading up to Bruce being fired. BB had definitely lost the room. The team wasn't playing hard, wasn't sticking to his system, and was getting destroyed night in and night out.
Didn't they get destroyed 7-0 by the Rangers the previous year to lose 5 in a row? He didn't lose the team then it seemed.

They could have easily turned it around under him. They really didn't play all the much better overall under Hunter and haven't had results under Oates.

Seems like a personnel issue more than coaching IMO

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03-05-2013, 02:54 PM
  #60
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He was blamed a lot for an awful line change during game 3(?) of the Tampa sweep. But that's about it.
Right, so he wasn't.

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03-05-2013, 02:55 PM
  #61
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The Montreal series broke their spirits but BB's approach doesn't appear to work in the playoffs. It was over for him in DC after the Habs loss. The team crumbled. Was that Fedorov's last year? Or had he retired?

But yeah, personnel was and is a problem. This franchise is in no way prepared for the big games. The people running the team don't know a thing about winning Stanley Cups.

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03-05-2013, 03:05 PM
  #62
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Somewhere, a small part of Swimmer77 just died today.


Not really. Started to follow Hamr during his days with NYI. Was elated when he signed with the Habs. More elated when he signed with the Caps.

If there was one player during the lockout that truly meant he wanted to play it was Hamr. All he wanted to do was finalize a dream of a Stanley Cup. Frankly, since being waived there is still a glimmer of hope because I don't think it was gonna happen with the Caps this year. Or maybe he's done.

He was brought in IMO to replace Poti who was a mystery at the time. Poti came back, Schultz is a long term project, Erskine drops the mitts. Hamr is odd man out. Who knows how this came down. Hamr request? Mutual decision? Maybe e wasn't traded because of cap concerns plus I doubt GMGM would trade him to an Eastern Conf team?

But he leaves Washington having the best playoff stats of the d-men if not overall when you consider offense and defense. He had trouble last year in the first half and despite that still ended up with the second best team plus / minus. And he wasn't riding ANYONE'S coattails because he had numerous D partners.

So should the Caps not make the playoffs look at the last guy to score a playoff goal.

Good luck to ya' Hamr!

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03-05-2013, 03:06 PM
  #63
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Didn't they get destroyed 7-0 by the Rangers the previous year to lose 5 in a row? He didn't lose the team then it seemed.

They could have easily turned it around under him. They really didn't play all the much better overall under Hunter and haven't had results under Oates.

Seems like a personnel issue more than coaching IMO
They were still playing his system the year before. They may have sucked massive dick, but they were still doing what they were told to do (or at least somewhat trying to). And that 5-1 loss to the Amerks was worse than the 7-0 loss to the Rangers. Plus the Rangers beat the Caps 6-3 the night before and Toronto smacked the Caps 7-1 a week before. This was while Boudreau was playing the trap, and they were still giving up bunches and bunches of goals. They held an opponent under 3 goals only thrice the entire month of November, and one of those was Dale's first game. They were averaging almost 5 goals/again in the five games leading up to Bruce's dismissal.

It was dismal.

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03-05-2013, 03:18 PM
  #64
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The Montreal series broke their spirits but BB's approach doesn't appear to work in the playoffs. It was over for him in DC after the Habs loss. The team crumbled. Was that Fedorov's last year? Or had he retired?

But yeah, personnel was and is a problem. This franchise is in no way prepared for the big games. The people running the team don't know a thing about winning Stanley Cups.
That's not entirely true. BB managed to turn the team around after the 8 game losing streak in 2010-11. We still won our conference that year, only to be swept by the Bolts. That was the final nail in coffin of BB's tenure as out head coach. He did lose the locker room when things got tough last season.

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03-05-2013, 03:18 PM
  #65
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As Ref9 pointed out, he was coming off of a serious concussion. There were definitely concerns. Los Angeles, Washington, and Vancouver were the three serious contenders, with LA being the only team to pony up a second year on the offer. He worked out with both the Kings and the Caps to show he was healthy.

Hamrlik, on the other hand, was viewed as kind of an iron man. He had played 75+ games in all but one season since the lock-out. While injury wasn't a huge concern, that many games played for a 37 year old certainly brought a mileage concern with it. A concern that has apparently manifested as legitimate.

Not to mention McPhee immediately ponied up a 2-year extension with Poti (a year before his contract even expired) only a couple months after passing on Mitchell. Poti then promptly played 21 games that season and missed the entire next season.

It's puzzling to see when McPhee is concerned about the extra term and when he isn't. Guess the pendulum swung the other way after he missed out on Mitchell.
All fair points, especially on the Poti extension. I never understood the reasoning behind that deal.

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03-05-2013, 03:21 PM
  #66
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btw, I'm not clear about the new CBA. If Hammer gets picked up, are we on the hook for half his salary?

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03-05-2013, 03:22 PM
  #67
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All fair points, especially on the Poti extension. I never understood the reasoning behind that deal.
I understood the reasoning, just not the timing. Poti was easily our best LD at the time, and was coming off of a very good series against Montreal. He was looking like a legitimate shutdown LD, and had chemistry with our up and coming RD stud Carlson. Alzner had yet to break out, and the Carlzner didn't exist at the NHL level yet. But getting the extension done a full season before his contract expired was peculiar, and obviously backfired afterwards.

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03-05-2013, 03:23 PM
  #68
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btw, I'm not clear about the new CBA. If Hammer gets picked up, are we on the hook for half his salary?
No. That only happened on re-entry waivers under the old CBA. Re-entry waivers no longer exist.

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03-05-2013, 03:28 PM
  #69
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The MTL series was as far as the rebuild talent would go when turned loose. BB failed to adapt in that series, and when the league adjusted early in the next season, he failed to adapt again. The PP dried up and so did all the scoring during the 8 game losing streak. His band-aid was to play a more defensive system instead of fixing the PP and coaching his team to be less predictable, which was what really sunk them vs MTL (other than arrogance).

That was the beginning of the end. Failure to adapt in the playoffs again against the TB trap (which Boston dismantled) was probably what really put him on ice. The struggles the next season were just about the timing.

Bringing in Hunter to continue more of the same was just an attempt to get stubborn players to do what BB couldn't get them to do.

Oates has fixed the PP by doing what was obvious in the early part of the season before the 8 game losing streak, which was to get 2 men either in the slot or near it. You can review video from that time when the PP was hot and see nearly every goal comes with 2 men low or in the slot. It's no coincidence that the new 1-3-1 system does exactly that.

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03-05-2013, 03:32 PM
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I understood the reasoning, just not the timing. Poti was easily our best LD at the time, and was coming off of a very good series against Montreal. He was looking like a legitimate shutdown LD, and had chemistry with our up and coming RD stud Carlson. Alzner had yet to break out, and the Carlzner didn't exist at the NHL level yet. But getting the extension done a full season before his contract expired was peculiar, and obviously backfired afterwards.
I wasn't very clear. The timing was indeed the piece I didn't understand. Hockey-wise, extending Poti seemed to be a good move.

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03-05-2013, 03:53 PM
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That was the beginning of the end. Failure to adapt in the playoffs again against the TB trap (which Boston dismantled) was probably what really put him on ice. The struggles the next season were just about the timing.
I don't really buy that Tampa's [0]-1-3-1 forecheck was the issue. The media loved to play it up, because it was Guy Boucher's "thing" and an excuse to sort of talk about hockey systems and sound smart. But Boucher varied his forecheck, and Tampa's 2-1-2 attack often pinned Washington in the zone and caused dangerous turnovers.

The comment about Boudreau being unable to adapt is very apt. Not only from game-to-game during a series (as Montreal demonstrated), but within a game (as Tampa Bay demonstrated). Boudreau couldn't keep up with the multiple schemes that Boucher was employing.

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Oates has fixed the PP by doing what was obvious in the early part of the season before the 8 game losing streak, which was to get 2 men either in the slot or near it. You can review video from that time when the PP was hot and see nearly every goal comes with 2 men low or in the slot. It's no coincidence that the new 1-3-1 system does exactly that.
Two things here.

Oates' 1-3-1 doesn't really have anyone in the low slot. Brouwer/Ward is pretty high in the slot, and Nicky/Ribeiro/Perreault/Wolski is working in the corner and behind the net. When a shot gets through, players will attack the crease, but nobody is permanently positioned on top of the crease to screen the goaltender and shove home rebounds.

Boudreau used the 1-3-1 for a while at the beginning of last season. In his version, Brouwer/Laich/Knuble was waiting on the doorstep, while Ovechkin was situation in the high slot.

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03-05-2013, 03:57 PM
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That's not entirely true. BB managed to turn the team around after the 8 game losing streak in 2010-11. We still won our conference that year, only to be swept by the Bolts. That was the final nail in coffin of BB's tenure as out head coach. He did lose the locker room when things got tough last season.

They did win the SE it's true. But they looked bad doing it. That year's team was a shell of what it had been the previous two. The only highlight that year was the NHL Classic win and that might not have been the same year. Every year looks the same in purgatory.


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03-05-2013, 04:04 PM
  #73
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I have high hopes for Oates' ability to adapt when necessary in the playoffs. I think he'll be able to identify very specific changes for the players to make, and I think they'll be the right ones. The only thing that might hold him back is stubbornness, particularly if it comes to broader strategic changes, but we'll see (or not).

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03-05-2013, 05:41 PM
  #74
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I don't really buy that Tampa's [0]-1-3-1 forecheck was the issue. The media loved to play it up, because it was Guy Boucher's "thing" and an excuse to sort of talk about hockey systems and sound smart. But Boucher varied his forecheck, and Tampa's 2-1-2 attack often pinned Washington in the zone and caused dangerous turnovers.

The comment about Boudreau being unable to adapt is very apt. Not only from game-to-game during a series (as Montreal demonstrated), but within a game (as Tampa Bay demonstrated). Boudreau couldn't keep up with the multiple schemes that Boucher was employing.


Two things here.

Oates' 1-3-1 doesn't really have anyone in the low slot. Brouwer/Ward is pretty high in the slot, and Nicky/Ribeiro/Perreault/Wolski is working in the corner and behind the net. When a shot gets through, players will attack the crease, but nobody is permanently positioned on top of the crease to screen the goaltender and shove home rebounds.

Boudreau used the 1-3-1 for a while at the beginning of last season. In his version, Brouwer/Laich/Knuble was waiting on the doorstep, while Ovechkin was situation in the high slot.

If BB used the 1-3-1 as you described he didn't do it for long and he didn't do it right. It certainly wasn't memorable. He was definitely NOT doing it when the PP crashed and burned prior to the 8 game losing streak, when scoring first dried up after the MTL debacle, which was the year before last, not last year. 2 years ago, before the losing streak, you can review the film and see what I'm talking about.

And as I said, the criteria is 2 guys in the slot or around the net, not just in the slot. The idea is that there's more for the goalie and the 2 low PKers to keep track of and you have more options, provided your 3 high guys are good enough to control the puck, especially whoever's on the point.

And it doesn't matter if the TB trap was overhyped. BB couldnt' break it. If it wasn't as tough as advertised, just that proves my point (and your agreeing with my point about BB's failure to adapt).

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03-05-2013, 05:46 PM
  #75
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Boudreau had turned on GMGM. He didn't believe in the system being dictated by GMGM and his roster management. The game before he got fired he literally said, post game, I don't know what to do. He was spent as a coach here. He is a great coach, but he was not compatible with what GMGM wants this team to be.

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