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Imagine if Prime Lindros played in this era...

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Old
02-27-2013, 11:33 PM
  #1
Riddum
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Imagine if Prime Lindros played in this era...

He would absolutely dominate the league. No one comes close to prime Lindros in terms of physical prowess + skills. Also, he would be protected against the maniacs who targeted his head, thanks to the new rules.

Lindros was a true tough guy with skills. He fought enforcers and didn't hide behind refs. On another hand, he's someone who competed for the top spot in the league. He would have probably accumulated 2000+ pts in his career, if it wasn't for the concussions from dirty hits.

Lindros played in an era where players were held accountable for their actions. This era is the era of the rats and the wuss.




Lindros is basically a mix of Crosby + Malkin + Prime Ovi.

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02-28-2013, 12:04 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Or maybe he'd be less dominant relative to other stars, not more dominant, since so much of his game was based on size and power instead of speed. I mean, Lindros wasn't exactly a guy who could be stopped by clutching and grabbing.

I'd also think Lindros' hitting style would be heavily penalized in today's game. Seriously, the first hit and a few others from the last video you showed would be clearcut head shots today.

Would he be healthier? Maybe. And a healthier Lindros is obviously a better Lindros. But it's not like Sidney Crosby has escaped concussion issues, and Crosby has a lot more hockey sense than Lindros.

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02-28-2013, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Or maybe he'd be less dominant relative to other stars, not more dominant, since so much of his game was based on size and power instead of speed. I mean, Lindros wasn't exactly a guy who could be stopped by clutching and grabbing.
This a bit imo, he would not brake hockey stick of opponent going into the corner and some other things.

But with concussion awareness and anti scott stevens kind of hit new rules he would maybe have survived longer.

In a sens we say, wow to Jagr without grabbing and clutching, but maybe that will have saved a bit the team againts him, used not to be able to use those tricks and have a defensive system that do not rely on slowing forward (that would not work on a big big and so strong Jagr, Lindros, etc..)

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02-28-2013, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Or maybe he'd be less dominant relative to other stars, not more dominant, since so much of his game was based on size and power instead of speed. I mean, Lindros wasn't exactly a guy who could be stopped by clutching and grabbing.

I'd also think Lindros' hitting style would be heavily penalized in today's game. Seriously, the first hit and a few others from the last video you showed would be clearcut head shots today.

Would he be healthier? Maybe. And a healthier Lindros is obviously a better Lindros. But it's not like Sidney Crosby has escaped concussion issues, and Crosby has a lot more hockey sense than Lindros.
these are all the things I wanted to say.

Lindros stood out in his era because he could.

If you want to pick someone from the Trap, let's say Ray Whitney would have had a great career if he started in '05. Or Paul Kariya. Or any other little guy who had a hard time getting past all the rugby tackles.

Lindros would be great in any era, but he was the opposite type of player as the guys who were held back during his era.

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02-28-2013, 01:05 AM
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And, there's no evidence that he would have survived longer. A two game suspension is worth it to take out Lindros. The game is no less/more dirty than in the Trap, as far as evil cheapshots go. It's just that you aren't allowed to hold and hook as much now, and you might get a short suspension for a cheapshot.

A better 'what-if' might be, - "What if Chara had his prime in an era where a guy with a 7 foot wingspan was allowed to hold guys at his discretion with his hands???"

Put Pronger and Chara as a duo into 1999, and NO ONE is getting by.

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02-28-2013, 01:28 AM
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Look at the leaguewide coveting of Lucic, who is in many ways a poor-to-homeless man's Lindros. Eric would be able to wreck so much more physical havoc because he'd be the biggest guy on the ice by that much more, and wouldn't have to deal with teams dressing whole lines of enforcers and three pairings of DPE-sized shutdown defensemen. The worst of his predatory hitting would probably adjust with the times, or he'd just be in the special "one game per every five incidents because superstar" tier with Ovechkin and Pronger.

That being said, I don't see how he wouldn't be any more shielded from the head injuries. Stevens and Kasparitis would just turn into Cooke and Torres. I don't get how this is the "era of the pest," yet Lindros would somehow be more protected.

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02-28-2013, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Or maybe he'd be less dominant relative to other stars, not more dominant, since so much of his game was based on size and power instead of speed. I mean, Lindros wasn't exactly a guy who could be stopped by clutching and grabbing.
Lindros was the most hyped prospects in hockey years before the DPE ever became a thing. It's not like he was drafted for his physical tools with the hope that he'd develop the skill to match like seemingly every mid-90s mid-first-rounder ever, he transcended eras as the prototypical combination of size and skill.

All in all, I think he trades the most egregious 5-10% of his physical game that wouldn't fly these days for more offensive production with pretty much the same overall reputation - give and take whether not having to deal with the three pseudo-dynasties gets him a Cup or not.

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02-28-2013, 01:43 AM
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Regardless of what era Lindros played in, he still needs to learn to keep his head up. Sure there is no Stevens, Kasparaitis, or Konstantinov in today's NHL but there are guys like Kronwall, Ovy, and others that can still thump you.

Lindros was one of the most complete/unique players to ever play the game. I'd have loved to seen the prime of his career extended compared to what happened with him. He played on our biggest rival and I loved watching him every game.

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02-28-2013, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Regardless of what era Lindros played in, he still needs to learn to keep his head up. Sure there is no Stevens, Kasparaitis, or Konstantinov in today's NHL but there are guys like Kronwall, Ovy, and others that can still thump you.

Lindros was one of the most complete/unique players to ever play the game. I'd have loved to seen the prime of his career extended compared to what happened with him. He played on our biggest rival and I loved watching him every game.
If he only had a brain... In the end, lack of hockey sense is what stopped Lindros from being "The Next One," IMO, and not just his inability to keep his head up. He also never figured out how to adjust his game in the playoffs in series where he couldn't just run over everyone.

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02-28-2013, 02:48 AM
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I like the comparision to peaked Ovechkin with note: less hockey, more body.

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02-28-2013, 03:42 AM
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Ideally Lindros would play in the clutch and grab era which he was physically built for but with the same restrictions against any hits with principle point of contact being the head.

Even then, lots of freak accidents would happen just because he played reckless as hell and didn't keep his head down.


That said, lindros in today's NHL would still be a superstar and the premier power forward in the game by a longshot (Lindros vs. the likes of Perry, Ryan, Lucic, Backes....)

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02-28-2013, 04:48 AM
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Lindros himself said about a year ago that there were more concussions in today's game because the league didn't allow clutching and grabbing. I'm not sure how the post-lockout changes help him in other ways either, he was actually a guy who loved dirty hockey.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/New.../19172781.html

Also, I think his skills are getting seriously overrated. Begbeee is right, he was a less skilled and stronger/meaner version of prime Ovechkin.

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02-28-2013, 05:22 AM
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This thread lets me discuss something that I've considered recently- and that's that the second half of Lindros' career coincided with the absolute heart of the "dead-puck era."

Scratch a little beneath that sound-bite, though, and I'm compelled to concede that it's not quite that simple. The heart of the dead-puck era is the 'baker's-half-dozen' year span covering seasons 97-98 to 03-04... and average goals per game during that span were c. 5. By contrast, the (what do we call it?) 'lively-puck era' was about twice as long, covering the years 80-81 to 92-93-- and goals per game during that span were about 7. These days, however, scoring is much closer to the low scoring period than the high scoring one (though admittedly still a little bit higher).

In some ways, the more interesting question would have been "what if you back-dated the Lindros career by about a decade?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombombadil View Post
A two game suspension is worth it to take out Lindros. [...]you might get a short suspension for a cheapshot.
The relatively low cost for marginalia cheap-shotting stars is a strong candidate for exhibit A of what's wrong with the league.

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02-28-2013, 07:18 AM
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The hit that started Lindros' problems, getting clobbered by Kasparitis while leading the rush into the offensive zone with his head down over the puck, would still be perfectly legal under today's rules.

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02-28-2013, 07:37 AM
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I think Lindros might have been the best player I ever saw; and I'm old enough to have seen late-era Gretzky and Mario Lemieux. So, of course I think he would still dominate the league today.

However, he likely still would have gotten hurt in today's NHL; you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Plenty of great hits in those highlights, but some of them are borderline and what did him in was borderline hits.

Also, some nice veiled shots at Lucic in the OP; let me guess Habs fan?

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02-28-2013, 07:45 AM
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Lindros was pretty fast, especially for his size. He had a good shot, and while his vision isn't the best we've seen, he still had an above average vision. Yes, Lindros was a bulldozer. He would still be able to bulldoze guys in this era.

Lucic is pretty much a bankrupt man's Lindros. He's Lindros without the natural talent, without the shot, without the passing ability, without the skating and even though he's hailed as the toughest guy in the league today, Lucic is not as tough as Lindros. Lindros is 5 times the player Lucic is.

Btw, I would take Lucic on my team in heartbeat. There isn't a person who wouldn't. But my point is that, Lucic is one of the top power forwards in the league, Lindros would absolutely be the best.

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02-28-2013, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
He would absolutely dominate the league. No one comes close to prime Lindros in terms of physical prowess + skills. Also, he would be protected against the maniacs who targeted his head, thanks to the new rules.

Lindros was a true tough guy with skills. He fought enforcers and didn't hide behind refs. On another hand, he's someone who competed for the top spot in the league. He would have probably accumulated 2000+ pts in his career, if it wasn't for the concussions from dirty hits.

Lindros played in an era where players were held accountable for their actions. This era is the era of the rats and the wuss.



Lindros is basically a mix of Crosby + Malkin + Prime Ovi.
Bolded seems to be a bit contradictory no? Stars aren't protected from anything today. How many star players have had concussions in the last year alone? Lindros would be just as susceptible as he was in his time

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02-28-2013, 08:22 AM
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Btw, I would take Lucic on my team in heartbeat. There isn't a person who wouldn't. But my point is that, Lucic is one of the top power forwards in the league, Lindros would absolutely be the best.
Nobody is saying he wouldn't be the best power forward in the league. They're just saying he wouldn't be the best player in the league (which he wouldn't).

He would still probably get hurt, too, because of his reckless style.

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02-28-2013, 08:41 AM
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Bolded seems to be a bit contradictory no? Stars aren't protected from anything today. How many star players have had concussions in the last year alone? Lindros would be just as susceptible as he was in his time
It's not, he said rats and wusses and I kinda agree. Players today cheap shot more than ever before and they hide behind the refs. Worst part is their teammates stand their idle while their guys are getting beat up.

I also disagree with the Ovechkin comparison. They were both very physical but their style of play was completely different.

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02-28-2013, 09:33 AM
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He would dominate just like he did before. The guy was a BEAST. That is,if he could make it past the medical staff nowadays.

His head just couldn't handle the bonecrusher playing style he loved to play.

His Achilles heel destined him a start and stop career regardless of era.

I think Lindros climbed the mountain of expectations most had for him, even if his put way too much trust in his cicus act parent's management acumen.

He's like cam neely for me, i hated to see a gladiator like lindros surrender his body but end his career without hoisting the cup as a player

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02-28-2013, 09:43 AM
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I would say Lindros would be comparable to his level in the 90s. He wouldn't be any less susceptible to concussions, but he was also frequently out with minor injuries brought on due to his style. Stricter calls from today might make Lindros less likely to miss time due to these injuries, as he would be less likely to slam himself into people (or the boards) so forcefully.

I basically see Lindros as a superior Getzlaf. He has an edge to varying degrees in every area. Getzlaf is a highly effective player today, which makes me think that Lindros would be highly successful. I would guess that Lindros would be a regular top five scorer (health given) and the most physical forward in hockey.

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02-28-2013, 09:57 AM
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A lot of today's stars have more skill and obviously more speed.

Forsberg is the guy though who I think could dominate. In fact he did do very well in the two seasons after the lockout ended despite having injury issues then.

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02-28-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
I would say Lindros would be comparable to his level in the 90s. He wouldn't be any less susceptible to concussions, but he was also frequently out with minor injuries brought on due to his style. Stricter calls from today might make Lindros less likely to miss time due to these injuries, as he would be less likely to slam himself into people (or the boards) so forcefully.
Yes if the nagging injuries were from having his knees hacked at every shift, no if they were self inflicted. You think a Lindros suddenly freed from the weight of the defenders waterskiing behind him is going to hit the boards with less force?

Edit - holy **** I completely forgot about the trapezoids. Time-machining Lindros to 2005-2007 would be ****ing terrifying for the league's defensemen. He'd injure entire pairings over the course of games.


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02-28-2013, 11:24 AM
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Or maybe he'd be less dominant relative to other stars, not more dominant, since so much of his game was based on size and power instead of speed.
Lindros was an excellent skater. The reason he could be so dominant compared to a Neely, Tkachuk, Shanahan, Stevens, etc. was because he not only had all of the same physical dominance and goal scoring tools, he was an excellent playmaker (one of the best in the league) and he was a very good skater. He wasn't Fedorov, but against most defenses they wouldn't be able to stop his speed OR power.

Fedorov is a guy I'd really like to see in today's era. Also prime Jagr. Those two had serious wheels, and physical power to push off any opposing defenseman while easily maintaining puck control with one hand. Those guys would truly dominate.

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Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Crosby would outscore him.
Not so sure about that. Lindros played when guys were allowed to basically do whatever they wanted to stop you from scoring, and still scored at an insane pace. Without defensemen hanging off of him, what kinds of numbers could he hit?

For that matter, that last sentence can be applied to Mario Lemieux also.

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02-28-2013, 12:18 PM
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No doubt that Lucic isn't comparable to Lindros in anything other than toughness & body checking. I'm in the camp that think Lindros would dominate the game now as much as he did in his prime, and arguably be a top 5 player in the league every season. I don't know about fighting though; guys are generally bigger and stronger in today's league. I think (and this is just my opinion) he'd shy away from the top heavyweights just like Lucic does, to an extent.

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