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Brooks Orpik

View Poll Results: What would you do with Orpik?
Trade him this season if the right deal is there. 84 63.64%
Move him in the offseason. 17 12.88%
Let him play out his contract here. 22 16.67%
Resign him this summer. 9 6.82%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-06-2013, 09:59 AM
  #51
radapex
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
We need a Dman like Orpik. It's a long season and there's a lot of hockey left. Yeah he's been in the twilight zone for a long stretch but we don't have to talk about trading someone every time they rub us the wrong way.
For me, it's about moving him while he still has value. Orpik is turning 33 this year, appears to be on the decline, and has 1 year left on his contract after this season. I believe this deadline is the absolutely latest Orpik is going to have any trade value.

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03-06-2013, 10:00 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
We need a Dman like Orpik. It's a long season and there's a lot of hockey left. Yeah he's been in the twilight zone for a long stretch but we don't have to talk about trading someone every time they rub us the wrong way.
I don't understand your argument, if a player is a liability how is he helping the team? It's one thing if he gets it together which is entirely possible, but you can't say at his current state he's going to be money in the playoffs.

You also have to remember his age and the fact that we have prospects that need to get ice time too, and they're not going to just give him away.


Last edited by HotCoffey: 03-06-2013 at 10:02 AM. Reason: edit
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Old
03-06-2013, 10:09 AM
  #53
Jag68Sid87
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
We need a Dman like Orpik. It's a long season and there's a lot of hockey left.

Yeah he's been in the twilight zone for a long stretch but we don't have to talk about trading someone every time they rub us the wrong way. Reminds me of how many people were talking about sitting Kunitz, at least for parts of games. Honestly how stupid does that sound now?
When was the last time Orpik played well when it mattered?

This team has players making good money with their hockey-playing clocks ticking. As Sam Pollock said once upon a time, it's always better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.

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03-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #54
IHWR
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
If we're moving a roster D for Sid's winger, I move Orpik over Despres. Orpik is not bringing anything a #4/5 D with some size couldn't playing a shutdown role with Martin. They can be had at the deadline for picks. Happens every year.

You can disagree. But it's certainly not a linear thought process.
Wait...we're also trading for a top 6 winger for Sid who's the leading scorer in the NHL and already has the second highest scoring winger in the league on his line?

Are we just trying to build an All-Star team at this point? It's like we're playing NHL 13 and trying to amass the perfect team from top to bottom.

It's a salary cap league and we don't have issues scoring...so why are we looking to improve an area of strength? We have 4 forwards currently in the top 20 in scoring but that's not good enough.

I honestly don't get what half of you see when you watch the games. If I'm looking to make roster moves I'd try and add a PMD as insurance (someone like Sulzer or Clitsome who are both UFAs this summer) and maybe a big body to play in the bottom 6 in case we get matched up against Philly again.

Those are my concerns. Injuries on the blueline and team toughness. Sure...I'd like a better backup goalie but we signed Vokoun for that so that's what we're going to roll with.

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03-06-2013, 10:20 AM
  #55
Jag68Sid87
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Wait...we're also trading for a top 6 winger for Sid who's the leading scorer in the NHL and already has the second highest scoring winger in the league on his line?

Are we just trying to build an All-Star team at this point? It's like we're playing NHL 13 and trying to amass the perfect team from top to bottom.

It's a salary cap league and we don't have issues scoring...so why are we looking to improve an area of strength? We have 4 forwards currently in the top 20 in scoring but that's not good enough.

I honestly don't get what half of you see when you watch the games. If I'm looking to make roster moves I'd try and add a PMD as insurance (someone like Sulzer or Clitsome who are both UFAs this summer) and maybe a big body to play in the bottom 6 in case we get matched up against Philly again.

Those are my concerns. Injuries on the blueline and team toughness. Sure...I'd like a better backup goalie but we signed Vokoun for that so that's what we're going to roll with.
So why did we bother acquiring Ron Francis in '91? I mean John Cullen was doing fine as one of the leading scorers in the league as our SECOND-line center. Why did we seek an upgrade then?

Yeah.

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03-06-2013, 10:25 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
When was the last time Orpik played well when it mattered?

This team has players making good money with their hockey-playing clocks ticking. As Sam Pollock said once upon a time, it's always better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.
I think it's just incredibly presumptuous to think our D would be fine without him. Let's say he's played poorly for a month, which he probably has. So what? We're making the playoffs so what's the panic? Also what do you want to trade him for? Another Dman? What team would want to do that? A forward? Then we better not trade Niskanen or Despres for a forward or we'll be way too thin on D.

If they can get a decent playoff from him I don't see trading him. I'll go by the player's history rather than freaking out about what he's doing midseason when the playoffs are long ways away even this season.

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03-06-2013, 10:33 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
When was the last time Orpik played well when it mattered?

This team has players making good money with their hockey-playing clocks ticking. As Sam Pollock said once upon a time, it's always better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.
By that standard, Letang never has. Should we trade him?

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03-06-2013, 10:39 AM
  #58
IHWR
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
So why did we bother acquiring Ron Francis in '91? I mean John Cullen was doing fine as one of the leading scorers in the league as our SECOND-line center. Why did we seek an upgrade then?

Yeah.
Fair enough. If somehow the 4th highest scoring player in league history becomes available in the prime of his career and we can acquire him...then yeah...I'm on board.

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03-06-2013, 10:57 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Fair enough. If somehow the 4th highest scoring player in league history becomes available in the prime of his career and we can acquire him...then yeah...I'm on board.
How about a 500 goal scorer like Iginla?

Sid will dominate with anyone in the regular season. Shero's smart enough to realize teams clamp down on individual players in the postseason. With Staal's departure, Im certain he'll look to add a winger.

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03-06-2013, 11:29 AM
  #60
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At the minimum, Id rest him every fourth game or so. Rest and recuperation is what more mid 30 yr old players that log a ton of minutes need, whether they admit it or not. Fresh legs are everything late in the season, when you get past 30 your recouperation abilities begin to diminish, and in a season like this it is easy to get heavy legs and play lazy.

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03-06-2013, 12:14 PM
  #61
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I'm all for moving him. Quite frankly I don't see him bring anything of real value unless he's hammering a guy along the boards. His play in front of the net in particular has been dreadful this season as he often looks completely lost out there.

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03-06-2013, 12:21 PM
  #62
Jag68Sid87
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I think it's just incredibly presumptuous to think our D would be fine without him. Let's say he's played poorly for a month, which he probably has. So what? We're making the playoffs so what's the panic? Also what do you want to trade him for? Another Dman? What team would want to do that? A forward? Then we better not trade Niskanen or Despres for a forward or we'll be way too thin on D.

If they can get a decent playoff from him I don't see trading him. I'll go by the player's history rather than freaking out about what he's doing midseason when the playoffs are long ways away even this season.
Our D, in hindsight, would have been better with Brian Strait or Simon Despres over Brooks Orpik LAST spring. And we're a year later and he's not getting better. So I TOO am looking at the player's history, just the more recent variety.

I think we need to let the '09 Orpik go in our minds. He's never coming back. Ever.


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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
By that standard, Letang never has. Should we trade him?
Letang's career is ahead of him, though, which was my second point. Big difference.


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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Fair enough. If somehow the 4th highest scoring player in league history becomes available in the prime of his career and we can acquire him...then yeah...I'm on board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
How about a 500 goal scorer like Iginla?

Sid will dominate with anyone in the regular season. Shero's smart enough to realize teams clamp down on individual players in the postseason. With Staal's departure, Im certain he'll look to add a winger.
THIS. Upgrading often means you have to give to get, which is what happened when we dealt Cullen. If (hypothetically) we could send Orpik in a deal that landed us an Iginla, Perry or Kessel, we'd be nuts not to strongly consider it (depending on the other pieces required).

It seems painfully obvious to me that we can't make futures deals to land any of those three. Everybody still wants to make the playoffs this spring. It's a give-to-get market this year.

A guy like Orpik could be exactly what is required to get a deal done.

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03-06-2013, 12:42 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Our D, in hindsight, would have been better with Brian Strait or Simon Despres over Brooks Orpik LAST spring. And we're a year later and he's not getting better. So I TOO am looking at the player's history, just the more recent variety.
That's your opinion I guess. I liked Strait and would've liked to keep him, however playing in spurts is much different than being the man on a Cup contender for an entire season. If he's that good they wouldn't have dared put him on waivers and his agent wouldn't have been thrilled to jump on a 3 year deal of less than a million bucks a year.

I think the Despres talk is nuts. You would've rather had him over Orpik last spring. That's insanity. As I've said before, people only want to talk about how good he looks at times and what he could become. At the moment he plays some really good games and he plays other games where his pair gets cycled on quite a bit and he hands the puck to the other team behind our blue line. It's just reality, regardless of whether or not it's fun to admit. He'll probably be a good player, but people really need to settle down. To say he should've been their go to defensive Dman against the Flyers last year is just plain crazy.

Again, I like these players quite a bit but the love for youngsters is out of control around here. To assume they could've just slipped into a big time role as early as last year says a lot about how people are too used to vets and prefer up and comers just because they're shiny and new.

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03-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #64
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i'd love for Shero to cash in on Orpik's supposed leadership. he's a fantastic quote and has a built up a reputation over the years as a player who is 'captain-material' - take a look at the Blues board, they're in full meltdown mode talking about a coddled group of core players who lack accountability and leadership. or Buffalo, that team has had a revolving door of captains and many of the fans are ready to trade their captain for a legitimate return. or Dallas, they can't wait to ship out their captain and many fans would like to hold off from naming Benn the captain until he grows into the role. sure, these are all examples of fans on message boards panicking over that nebulous quality known as leadership. but, Orpik can still play and some team desperate for locker-room leadership just might overpay for him. then again, these things seem to matter far, far less than most fans think.

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03-06-2013, 12:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
For me, it's about moving him while he still has value. Orpik is turning 33 this year, appears to be on the decline, and has 1 year left on his contract after this season. I believe this deadline is the absolutely latest Orpik is going to have any trade value.
Why would a team trying to win a Stanley Cup be dealing veteran players when their value is high? You're only going to get prospects/picks in return.

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03-06-2013, 01:41 PM
  #66
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Why would a team trying to win a Stanley Cup be dealing veteran players when their value is high? You're only going to get prospects/picks in return.
It makes sense when said veteran players aren't exactly playing at a high level, nor have they been playing at a particularly high level for some time now. Wouldn't hurt to shed Orpik's salary from our cap either.

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03-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #67
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Despres-Letang
Niskanen-Martin
Bort/Eaton-Engelland

That's what you're rolling with for the playoffs for better or worse. It's a little light IMO, and a far cry from our D corps from our last Cup. Also a far cry from the D corps' of top contenders.

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03-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Despres-Letang
Niskanen-Martin
Bort/Eaton-Engelland

That's what you're rolling with for the playoffs for better or worse. It's a little light IMO, and a far cry from our D corps from our last Cup. Also a far cry from the D corps' of top contenders.
He could however make some good trade bait if we're serious about fishing for a top 6 winger. I see what you're getting at as Orpik does bring considerable experience to our blue line, however his play over the last couple of seasons has really raised question marks...

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03-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by AquaticBirdman View Post
It makes sense when said veteran players aren't exactly playing at a high level, nor have they been playing at a particularly high level for some time now. Wouldn't hurt to shed Orpik's salary from our cap either.
To replace what he actually does will cost more. The Closest they have to him is Bortuzzo and he's years away from having it all put together. Right now you shed that salary, Shero will have to replace that one with a more costly one because, that player isn't going to sign a deal for less than the now new going rates for top 4 D-man. Really good ones that is. If he's signing for less or equal too, why even get rid of Orpik in the first place? Those guys will be the same or worse than him.

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03-06-2013, 01:59 PM
  #70
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Why would a team trying to win a Stanley Cup be dealing veteran players when their value is high? You're only going to get prospects/picks in return.
No you're not. You put a package together that moves Orpik+ and brings in a top 6 winger and bottom pair defensive defenseman.

Buffalo, as mentioned by Crafton, would be a great example.The two players I'm looking at are Marcus Foligno and Mike Weber. Weber is a bottom pairing guy, but logs a lot of time on the PK. There's no way he's not attainable, especially if Orpik were going their way, and should be shore up the defensive zone play. Foligno shows a lot of potential, though he might not be a "top 6 right now" kind of guy. I can't imagine they'd have to add a great deal to the package to make a deal like this work.


And with the way the Pens are playing defensively, they'll be lucky to win a playoff series let alone the Stanley Cup.

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03-06-2013, 02:02 PM
  #71
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No you're not. You put a package together that moves Orpik+ and brings in a top 6 winger and bottom pair defensive defenseman.

Buffalo, as mentioned by Crafton, would be a great example.The two players I'm looking at are Marcus Foligno and Mike Weber. Weber is a bottom pairing guy, but logs a lot of time on the PK. There's no way he's not attainable, especially if Orpik were going their way, and should be shore up the defensive zone play. Foligno shows a lot of potential, though he might not be a "top 6 right now" kind of guy. I can't imagine they'd have to add a great deal to the package to make a deal like this work.


And with the way the Pens are playing defensively, they'll be lucky to win a playoff series let alone the Stanley Cup.
If you were Buffalo would you trade Foligno? This is a one line, non-playoff team we're talking about.

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03-06-2013, 02:09 PM
  #72
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If you were Buffalo would you trade Foligno? This is a one line, non-playoff team we're talking about.
It'd depend on a few things, like how badly Buffalo would want Orpik and what the Pens would be adding to their side of the deal. Foligno hasn't exactly been lighting it up, currently sitting 8th on the Sabres with 1 goal and 7 assists in 20 games (and a team-worst -8). The only thing that could be troubling is that Buffalo doesn't exactly have the strongest group of forward prospects, so Foligno may be seen in the same light as Bennett is for the Pens - the only real top-6 option going forward, at this point in time.

Unfortunately, the most alluring part of a deal with Buffalo may actually be Weber. He's got to be dispensable on their end, and I believe he would really help shore up the Pens' bottom pair.

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03-06-2013, 02:14 PM
  #73
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It makes sense when said veteran players aren't exactly playing at a high level, nor have they been playing at a particularly high level for some time now. Wouldn't hurt to shed Orpik's salary from our cap either.
We knew before the season even started, that we were going to have to shed either Orpik's or Martin' salary in order to fit under the cap, especially if we wanted to trade for/sign a high-end winger. The only difference is we all thought Martin was not going to play as well as he did, and might be the one of those two guys more likely for a trade/buyout. But with Martin's play and dedication, moving Paul seems like a terrible idea to do for next season.


Brooks, on the other hand, is a guy that we may want/need for this season's playoff run, but a perfect candidate to not only shed salary, but also bring some assets back in return in the summer. Despres and Bortuzzo should both be ready to be full-time players next season; and they'll have Dumoulin and Harrington pushing for a spot, as well. I am really on the fence with the idea of trading Brooks now (thought this would be 100% dependent on getting a type of return that would be hard to say no to); but I am also 100% FOR moving this player in the summertime, to clear cap space and to acquire assets to continue to keep us competitive for the future.


You look at a team like Chicago and the fact that they had to trade Byfuglien, Versteeg and Ladd; and though they may have taken a step back for a year or so, you look at where they are at right now with their cap flexability, ability to retain other kep players, and their young players & prospect pool from the moves that they made, and I see that as the type of model we should pursue going forward. So moving Brooks in the summer for a good return is a good idea, and NOT trading away picks/prospects for rentals -- but instead only for younger guys who will be key part of our future -- is the right direction to go in.

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03-06-2013, 02:20 PM
  #74
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We knew before the season even started, that we were going to have to shed either Orpik's or Martin' salary in order to fit under the cap, especially if we wanted to trade for/sign a high-end winger. The only difference is we all thought Martin was not going to play as well as he did, and might be the one of those two guys more likely for a trade/buyout. But with Martin's play and dedication, moving Paul seems like a terrible idea to do for next season.


Brooks, on the other hand, is a guy that we may want/need for this season's playoff run, but a perfect candidate to not only shed salary, but also bring some assets back in return in the summer. Despres and Bortuzzo should both be ready to be full-time players next season; and they'll have Dumoulin and Harrington pushing for a spot, as well. I am really on the fence with the idea of trading Brooks now (thought this would be 100% dependent on getting a type of return that would be hard to say no to); but I am also 100% FOR moving this player in the summertime, to clear cap space and to acquire assets to continue to keep us competitive for the future.


You look at a team like Chicago and the fact that they had to trade Byfuglien, Versteeg and Ladd; and though they may have taken a step back for a year or so, you look at where they are at right now with their cap flexability, ability to retain other kep players, and their young players & prospect pool from the moves that they made, and I see that as the type of model we should pursue going forward. So moving Brooks in the summer for a good return is a good idea, and NOT trading away picks/prospects for rentals -- but instead only for younger guys who will be key part of our future -- is the right direction to go in.
Like I said, the longer the hold on to Orpik the less value he's going to have. That's my #1 reason to trading him by/at the deadline - to get as much as possible for him.

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03-06-2013, 02:24 PM
  #75
IHWR
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Like I said, the longer the hold on to Orpik the less value he's going to have. That's my #1 reason to trading him by/at the deadline - to get as much as possible for him.
Why? He's not a piece of fruit.

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