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Brooks Orpik

View Poll Results: What would you do with Orpik?
Trade him this season if the right deal is there. 84 63.64%
Move him in the offseason. 17 12.88%
Let him play out his contract here. 22 16.67%
Resign him this summer. 9 6.82%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-06-2013, 03:30 PM
  #76
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
We knew before the season even started, that we were going to have to shed either Orpik's or Martin' salary in order to fit under the cap, especially if we wanted to trade for/sign a high-end winger. The only difference is we all thought Martin was not going to play as well as he did, and might be the one of those two guys more likely for a trade/buyout. But with Martin's play and dedication, moving Paul seems like a terrible idea to do for next season.


Brooks, on the other hand, is a guy that we may want/need for this season's playoff run, but a perfect candidate to not only shed salary, but also bring some assets back in return in the summer. Despres and Bortuzzo should both be ready to be full-time players next season; and they'll have Dumoulin and Harrington pushing for a spot, as well. I am really on the fence with the idea of trading Brooks now (thought this would be 100% dependent on getting a type of return that would be hard to say no to); but I am also 100% FOR moving this player in the summertime, to clear cap space and to acquire assets to continue to keep us competitive for the future.


You look at a team like Chicago and the fact that they had to trade Byfuglien, Versteeg and Ladd; and though they may have taken a step back for a year or so, you look at where they are at right now with their cap flexability, ability to retain other kep players, and their young players & prospect pool from the moves that they made, and I see that as the type of model we should pursue going forward. So moving Brooks in the summer for a good return is a good idea, and NOT trading away picks/prospects for rentals -- but instead only for younger guys who will be key part of our future -- is the right direction to go in.
Here's the issue with this system they have worked themselves into. Not only do they need to keep Orpik for his physical presence, he's the only one qualified to teach these guys coming up to play that role to replace him. Flooding our D with young guys is good, but only to an extent. You start adding Despres, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin, Morrow, Harrington you have no semblance of a balanced defense for some time with trial and errors that go on for 2 or more seasons. They flood the system that much we might as well just sell off some more expensive salaries and go into a mini rebuild because that's what that is if that many D- prospects reach the NHL Penguins.

That equals to throwing away possible cup years of Sid and Geno, too. To much learning curve to over come.

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03-06-2013, 03:33 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Why would a team trying to win a Stanley Cup be dealing veteran players when their value is high? You're only going to get prospects/picks in return.
Why did LA ever deal Jack Johnson last season? It is all about identifying the dead weight (or asetts you can stand to lose) and making your team better.

Losing Orpik does not really matter because the Pens have Bortuzzo that can effectively replace his production.

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03-06-2013, 03:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by AquaticBirdman View Post
It makes sense when said veteran players aren't exactly playing at a high level, nor have they been playing at a particularly high level for some time now. Wouldn't hurt to shed Orpik's salary from our cap either.
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Why? He's not a piece of fruit.
His reasoning/argument for trading him now:

A) Because values always escalate at the trade deadline. With so many buyers this year, so many teams looking to add a Dman, and so many teams looking to add someone with Cup experience, we are likely to get a higher price than might be "regular" fair-market-value.

B) He will be one season closer to UFA status in the summer. All players' value decreases the closer they get to UFA status.


Now, for me, the offer would need to be significant to move him now. We would have to get a piece/pieces that would help us offensive both short and long-term to move him before the playoffs. But in the summer, it would be different: I would actively be looking to move him. He's one of our most tradable/valuable assets who is not/should be deemed an untouchable by the summertime.

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03-06-2013, 03:49 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
His reasoning/argument for trading him now:

A) Because values always escalate at the trade deadline. With so many buyers this year, so many teams looking to add a Dman, and so many teams looking to add someone with Cup experience, we are likely to get a higher price than might be "regular" fair-market-value.

B) He will be one season closer to UFA status in the summer. All players' value decreases the closer they get to UFA status.


Now, for me, the offer would need to be significant to move him now. We would have to get a piece/pieces that would help us offensive both short and long-term to move him before the playoffs. But in the summer, it would be different: I would actively be looking to move him. He's one of our most tradable/valuable assets who is not/should be deemed an untouchable by the summertime.
We also need to look at the types of teams that would be willing to make a deal for Orpik. Personally I don't see rebuilding teams looking to trade us a winger for a 33 year old D-man. If anything it would be a cup contender looking to add experience, leadership, and toughness to their blue line that would want someone like Brooks.

That being said, the team in question would have to be willing to spare an asset that we currently need (namely a top 6 winger). Personally I don't see Orpik alone being enough to get such a winger, so we might have to package him up with another player or a pick to do so.

Lastly, I don't see Shero wanting to deal him to a team in the Eastern Conference, so said team would likely come out of the Western Conference instead.

Can we narrow down a list based on those criteria?

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03-06-2013, 03:52 PM
  #80
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should have traded him last year in a package for Grossman and Ryder

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03-06-2013, 03:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Why did LA ever deal Jack Johnson last season? It is all about identifying the dead weight (or asetts you can stand to lose) and making your team better.
They traded Jack Johnson so they could get a 40 goal scorer. Jack Johnson and Orpik are different players at different stages of their career and aren't comparable, however. Heck, this whole thread is talking about how value-less Orpik is.

Quote:
Losing Orpik does not really matter because the Pens have Bortuzzo that can effectively replace his production.
Not really. He's a rookie that hasn't played a second in the nhl playoffs.

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03-06-2013, 04:10 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
They traded Jack Johnson so they could get a 40 goal scorer. Jack Johnson and Orpik are different players at different stages of their career and aren't comparable, however. Heck, this whole thread is talking about how value-less Orpik is.


Not really. He's a rookie that hasn't played a second in the nhl playoffs.
All those playoff minutes didn't really seem to help Orpik out last year, did they?


Who is going to replace Orpik's 5 pts in 23 games?
Who is going to replace Orpik's 3rd highest GAA/60?
Who is going to replace Orpik's +1?

Answer: A rookie. Bortuzzo.

Bortz already has similar PPG, better +-, and a lower GAA/60. So the Pens can trade him out without losing much of anything. With your logic, how do players ever get playoff experience?

We trade Orpik + so we can get a 25g-30g scorer.

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03-06-2013, 04:24 PM
  #83
jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
They traded Jack Johnson so they could get a 40 goal scorer. Jack Johnson and Orpik are different players at different stages of their career and aren't comparable, however. Heck, this whole thread is talking about how value-less Orpik is.


Not really. He's a rookie that hasn't played a second in the nhl playoffs.

Agreed on both parts, but I'll address the bolded. Bortuzzo is not an appropriate replacement for Orpik for 5-on-5 because he plays on the right side, while Orpik plays the left and fits well there with Martin (in particular) or Letang. So candidates for replacing Orpik in that role would be Despres (love him, but not sure if he's ready for top-4), Mark Eaton (is he a legit top-4?) and Niskanen. Bortuzzo can definitely be a net-front guy on the PK and replace Orpik in that regard, but if this is the direction we're going to go in, the sooner we make this move the better, because whether it's Bortuzzo or Despres (or even Eaton) who's going to fill that role, we need to get them into those game situations to develop the comfort/chemistry/experience prior to the playoffs.


Anyway, if I'm a betting man, I still think it's more likely that he won't be moved until the summer (if at all), but considering he's a valuable, yet not "untouchable" trade chip, I think we need to keep the option of moving him for an established forward on the table right now.

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03-06-2013, 04:41 PM
  #84
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Something around Orpik +\- for Pomminville +\- is what I'd like to see.

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03-06-2013, 04:54 PM
  #85
jmelm
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Originally Posted by Fictionzero View Post
Something around Orpik +\- for Pomminville +\- is what I'd like to see.

Pominville is a very good trade target, and while Stafford ain't great, he ain't bad either (considering they may not want to trade the former, due to being their Captain and one of their better players). That being said, we must remember: Brooks has a limited NTC and Buffalo may not be on his list.

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03-06-2013, 05:16 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Pominville is a very good trade target, and while Stafford ain't great, he ain't bad either (considering they may not want to trade the former, due to being their Captain and one of their better players). That being said, we must remember: Brooks has a limited NTC and Buffalo may not be on his list.
I'd imagine it is on that list since Orpik grew up near Buffalo.

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03-06-2013, 05:28 PM
  #87
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Just voted and haven't read the thread, but I think the first option is a no-brainer. I mean, wouldn't you trade anyone for the right deal?

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03-06-2013, 05:33 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Pominville is a very good trade target, and while Stafford ain't great, he ain't bad either (considering they may not want to trade the former, due to being their Captain and one of their better players). That being said, we must remember: Brooks has a limited NTC and Buffalo may not be on his list.
And I agree on Stafford, not ideal but good utility guy who can play anywhere in a top 9, same with JJ from Carolina... A guy I've seen thrown into a lot of trade discussions that could play anywhere in our top 9.

If we are not going to get a block buster winger. I'd like to have two utility guys like those two or whomever to give us at least quality forward depth through the entire top 9.

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03-06-2013, 05:54 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by AquaticBirdman View Post
We also need to look at the types of teams that would be willing to make a deal for Orpik. Personally I don't see rebuilding teams looking to trade us a winger for a 33 year old D-man. If anything it would be a cup contender looking to add experience, leadership, and toughness to their blue line that would want someone like Brooks.

That being said, the team in question would have to be willing to spare an asset that we currently need (namely a top 6 winger). Personally I don't see Orpik alone being enough to get such a winger, so we might have to package him up with another player or a pick to do so.

Lastly, I don't see Shero wanting to deal him to a team in the Eastern Conference, so said team would likely come out of the Western Conference instead.

Can we narrow down a list based on those criteria?
St Louis strikes me as a team that could show some interest in Orpik. They've got some solid defensemen, but the experience of Orpik could draw their eye.

Detroit may or may not be interested. Their focus is on just making the playoffs right now, but with a weak group of defensemen one would think Orpik would be on their radar if he was made available - but does Detroit having anything of interest to the Pens?

Of bit more of a longshot would be Edmonton. They don't have a great deal of experience on the back end, so the veteran Orpik may be seen as a teaching tool for their younger guys.

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03-06-2013, 05:57 PM
  #90
Ugene Malkin
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Just voted and haven't read the thread, but I think the first option is a no-brainer. I mean, wouldn't you trade anyone for the right deal?
Yes, if you had a legitimate replacement for him.

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03-06-2013, 05:58 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Pominville is a very good trade target, and while Stafford ain't great, he ain't bad either (considering they may not want to trade the former, due to being their Captain and one of their better players). That being said, we must remember: Brooks has a limited NTC and Buffalo may not be on his list.
His NTC is a little different though. He's got to provide a list of 8 teams he won't accept a trade to, which means there are still 21 options out there.

See as how he was raised in nearby Amherst, NY, I can't see him objecting to a trade to the Sabres.

I posted earlier about possibly targeting Foligno + Weber, which was made with the assumption that Pominville and Stafford are likely untouchable. I'd take any one of those 3 up front but if I'm dealing with Buffalo then I'm really looking at Weber as part of the deal to help shore up the bottom pairing.

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03-06-2013, 08:02 PM
  #92
jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fictionzero View Post
I'd imagine it is on that list since Orpik grew up near Buffalo.
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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
His NTC is a little different though. He's got to provide a list of 8 teams he won't accept a trade to, which means there are still 21 options out there.

See as how he was raised in nearby Amherst, NY, I can't see him objecting to a trade to the Sabres.

Well, it doesn't really matter what we think or suspect. It's black & white, and whatever teams are on the list are on the list. That list is kept private and we won't know about it. And becuase the Pens are a contender and Brooks wears a letter on his jersey, I think any trade surrounding him would be a huge "surprise". This doesn't mean we can't pull off a trade -- it's a business and we're entitled to do so -- but if we were to trade him, I would want to do it as a "quickly rip the band-aid off" type of approach, rather than to ask him to waive to go to a team that is not on the accepted list, where he has the right to say "no" and have the locker room fester over it. We either trade him quickly and decisively, or we hang on to him until the summer. It will be bad for team chemistry if we did anything in between.


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Originally Posted by radapex View Post
I posted earlier about possibly targeting Foligno + Weber, which was made with the assumption that Pominville and Stafford are likely untouchable. I'd take any one of those 3 up front but if I'm dealing with Buffalo then I'm really looking at Weber as part of the deal to help shore up the bottom pairing.

Marcus Foligno is a key part of Buffalo's future. I could see them be willing to move him for a YOUNG Dman like Despres/Pouliot/Morrow, but I highly doubt they trade him for someone who is going to be an impending UFA after next year. Weber would be a nice player to fill in for Brooks, but I imagine Buffalo would be looking to add a Dman, not trading one out for one coming in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
St Louis strikes me as a team that could show some interest in Orpik. They've got some solid defensemen, but the experience of Orpik could draw their eye.

Detroit may or may not be interested. Their focus is on just making the playoffs right now, but with a weak group of defensemen one would think Orpik would be on their radar if he was made available - but does Detroit having anything of interest to the Pens?

Of bit more of a longshot would be Edmonton. They don't have a great deal of experience on the back end, so the veteran Orpik may be seen as a teaching tool for their younger guys.
Absolutely, the 3 teams you mentioned would be keenly interested in Brooks. I would guess that St. Louis and Detroit would be on his list of acceptable destinations, but perhaps not Edmonton. Also, I'm not sure Edmonton would be willing to send Paajarvi straight up for Brooks (or how much I'd want to add to that package), and there really aren't any other players on their roster that would be a great fit (besides their untouchables).


St. Louis and Detroit, however, are clearly teams that would love to add Brooks; although both those teams may prefer a guy like JBo who can provide both offense and defensive minutes. St. Louis' interest in a Dman has probably gone from very high to VERY, VERY high, after Polak seemed to have sustained a concussion in a fight last night. St. Louis has existing forwards on their team who are NHL players/NHL ready prospects (i.e. Schwartz), but some of Detroit's better young forward prospects may not be NHL ready yet. And as I mentioned, if we move Brooks before this season's playoffs, it cannot be for futures; we would have to be getting an established player back in return. Minnesota is another team that would be very interested if it's on Brooks' list of acceptable teams.

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03-06-2013, 08:21 PM
  #93
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I would love to get Ladislav Smid

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03-06-2013, 08:31 PM
  #94
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I would love to get Ladislav Smid
sign me up for Šmd. not that they'd' be able to get him in a trade for Orpik. but if Orpik is dealt in the off-season, he'd be a great free-agent signing. at least 1 Czech player on the roster for how many years, now?

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03-06-2013, 09:01 PM
  #95
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Well, it doesn't really matter what we think or suspect. It's black & white, and whatever teams are on the list are on the list. That list is kept private and we won't know about it. And becuase the Pens are a contender and Brooks wears a letter on his jersey, I think any trade surrounding him would be a huge "surprise". This doesn't mean we can't pull off a trade -- it's a business and we're entitled to do so -- but if we were to trade him, I would want to do it as a "quickly rip the band-aid off" type of approach, rather than to ask him to waive to go to a team that is not on the accepted list, where he has the right to say "no" and have the locker room fester over it. We either trade him quickly and decisively, or we hang on to him until the summer. It will be bad for team chemistry if we did anything in between.





Marcus Foligno is a key part of Buffalo's future. I could see them be willing to move him for a YOUNG Dman like Despres/Pouliot/Morrow, but I highly doubt they trade him for someone who is going to be an impending UFA after next year. Weber would be a nice player to fill in for Brooks, but I imagine Buffalo would be looking to add a Dman, not trading one out for one coming in.




Absolutely, the 3 teams you mentioned would be keenly interested in Brooks. I would guess that St. Louis and Detroit would be on his list of acceptable destinations, but perhaps not Edmonton. Also, I'm not sure Edmonton would be willing to send Paajarvi straight up for Brooks (or how much I'd want to add to that package), and there really aren't any other players on their roster that would be a great fit (besides their untouchables).


St. Louis and Detroit, however, are clearly teams that would love to add Brooks; although both those teams may prefer a guy like JBo who can provide both offense and defensive minutes. St. Louis' interest in a Dman has probably gone from very high to VERY, VERY high, after Polak seemed to have sustained a concussion in a fight last night. St. Louis has existing forwards on their team who are NHL players/NHL ready prospects (i.e. Schwartz), but some of Detroit's better young forward prospects may not be NHL ready yet. And as I mentioned, if we move Brooks before this season's playoffs, it cannot be for futures; we would have to be getting an established player back in return. Minnesota is another team that would be very interested if it's on Brooks' list of acceptable teams.
Having see Blues' prospect Dmitrij Jaskin play a lot this season, I'd let to see Shero get his hands on him. Kid's going to be a stud.

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03-06-2013, 09:44 PM
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Something around Orpik +\- for Pomminville +\- is what I'd like to see.
Pominville would take a lot to pry away from Buffalo but IMO, considering cost, age, playing style etc, I'd take him over Iginla and I'm a big Iggy fan too.

I'm a huge Pominville fan and I think him and 87 would be absolutely filthy. But I think he costs probably more like Bennett and a 1st.

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03-06-2013, 10:06 PM
  #97
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Bort plays a couple of good games, and Orpik plays a few bad ones...and it's all over for Orpik...sheesh.
Remember how everybody was hot over Letestu? TK?

I remember the "Trade Staal...Letestu and be our 3C".

I think Bort needs to show what he do for a few seasons before I give him Orpik role rights. If the right trade comes along, sure trade Orpik, as we have other D to fill in the gap. The reward outweighs the risk.

Give him away? Not on your life.

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03-06-2013, 10:13 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Sidgeni Malkby View Post
Bort plays a couple of good games, and Orpik plays a few bad ones...and it's all over for Orpik...sheesh.
Remember how everybody was hot over Letestu? TK?

I remember the "Trade Staal...Letestu and be our 3C".

I think Bort needs to show what he do for a few seasons before I give him Orpik role rights. If the right trade comes along, sure trade Orpik, as we have other D to fill in the gap. The reward outweighs the risk.

Give him away? Not on your life.
who has suggested this?

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03-06-2013, 10:37 PM
  #99
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Orpik for Smid and Paajarvi is the kind of deal that would literally be the perfect storm for us.

From Buffalo, I think Pominville ($5.3M) and Stafford ($4M) would make too much on the cap for what they provide. But I would love to land Mike Weber and Joel Armia if at all possible. Foligno is probably not happening.

Orpik, Kennedy and Glass for Weber, Armia and John Scott. That would help our cap situation and also our other issues (crease-clearing defenseman, long-term winger and heavyweight enforcer).

It'll never happen but that too would be a coup for us.

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03-06-2013, 11:08 PM
  #100
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Having see Blues' prospect Dmitrij Jaskin play a lot this season, I'd let to see Shero get his hands on him. Kid's going to be a stud.

That's all well and good, but as I said, Orpik is not going to be traded for just futures this season. Perhaps if there's an off-season move, Orpik could be traded for a pick/prospect, but he's not leaving this season unless there's a roster player coming back in return to help us for this year.


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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Orpik for Smid and Paajarvi is the kind of deal that would literally be the perfect storm for us.

From Buffalo, I think Pominville ($5.3M) and Stafford ($4M) would make too much on the cap for what they provide. But I would love to land Mike Weber and Joel Armia if at all possible. Foligno is probably not happening.

Orpik, Kennedy and Glass for Weber, Armia and John Scott. That would help our cap situation and also our other issues (crease-clearing defenseman, long-term winger and heavyweight enforcer).

It'll never happen but that too would be a coup for us.

No, it will never happen. Armia is an A-level prospect, and part of the future they're going to build around. You're not getting that type of player from a team for an older veteran like Orpik who has one year left before UFA, and that's IF Buffalo is even on his list of acceptable teams. Buffalo could be a good trade partner for Niskanen or one of our D prospects, but we're not going to get much more than Drew Stafford and Luke Adam type players for Orpik, if he'd accept a trade there.

I don't think Buffalo are a good trade partner for Brooks unless he (A) accepts a trade, and (B) is willing to sign a long-terms extension. I don't see that happening mid season when you're talking about going from your top-tier hometown team to a team that's out of the playoff hunt. Maybe in the summer.

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