HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Why the Hate for Stan Fischler?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2013, 10:01 PM
  #26
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... you mean Stanleys list from 1988?

1) Howe
2) Gretzky
3) Shore
4) Kelly
5) Boucher
6) Richard
7) Morenz
8) Beliveau
9) Harvey
10) Hall
11) Apps
12) Potvin
13) Orr
14) Hull
15) Trottier
16) Cook
17) Bentley
18) Vezina
19) Clancy
20) Lemieux
etc
etcetera

.... yep. Pretty messed up alrighty. Guaranteed to engender some anger, debate. But thats what he does. I dont know if he genuinely believes it himself, Im assuming so as he wrote it, justifying every single pick, and Lemieux of course still had history to create so I can understand why he'd be down the list but all the way to 20th?! And Orr at 13? WTF is that?!
Maybe he is a bit of a career guy?

Seriously though the recent top Canadians of all time publication had some really weird picks from guys as esteemed as Scotty Bowman.

One writer that people often cite (I forget his name or the player he missed) has a guy not in his top 10 pre 1950 that lamsot everyone else does.

People do similar things and some get slack other get blame, it's all part of the human condition if you ask me.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 10:10 PM
  #27
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Seems like Fischler held bizarre opinions, knowing they were bizarre, only because they were bizarre. He smeared his attention-******* all up the underpants of hockey history. And now that his name is canon, we have to pretend he's worth listening to. Bad!
I'm reminded of the scene at the end of "The Hunt For Red October", with the argument between Ramius and Ryan over whether Bull Halsey was a great admiral or an extremely lucky gambler.

Fischler can give anecdotes and snippets, but I think we and damn near everyone else can derive that his conclusions are largely junk. He's a slightly better version of David Barton.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 10:22 PM
  #28
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Maybe he is a bit of a career guy?

Seriously though the recent top Canadians of all time publication had some really weird picks from guys as esteemed as Scotty Bowman.

One writer that people often cite (I forget his name or the player he missed) has a guy not in his top 10 pre 1950 that lamsot everyone else does.

People do similar things and some get slack other get blame, it's all part of the human condition if you ask me.
His main argument against Orr was that he dominated the NHL when the NHL was at it's weakest competitive point. Probably true with expansion and the WHA, but still a ridiculous ranking. IMO it had more to do with sour grapes over Orr's Bruins always beating the Rangers.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 10:26 PM
  #29
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 32,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Fischler can give anecdotes and snippets, but I think we and damn near everyone else can derive that his conclusions are largely junk. He's a slightly better version of David Barton.
Maybe we should start a thread similar to the History Channels website who's chatboard members voted Bartons The Jefferson Lies the Least Credible History Book Ever Written. We could have our own with the Least Credible History of Hockey Books Ever Written. All kinds of candidates, though certainly Fischler's resume, having either co-authored or penned himself some 90+ tomes & reams of articles would just have to be a perennial favourite.... not to mention he'd likely revel in the attention... so no, maybe not... bottom line he's an entertainer insofar as most are concerned. An annoying one at times sure enough but not dangerous, not like Barton.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:04 AM
  #30
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
My favorite Fischler moment was when he wrote in THN that Mike Milbury was a better player than Ray Bourque.

Stan was once on WFAN in New York on their popular drive time show. They rarely had hockey guests because most fans wanted to talk about the Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, or Knicks. Fischler was so arrogant and obnoxious that he was never asked back. The hosts would always refer to future bad interviews as "almost Stan Fischler-like". Serena Williams was the only other guest to even approach Stan's level.
I never heard the Milbury thing before. I do remember when he said that he didn't think Ray Bourque was a top 50 defenseman because abandoned his team so he win a Cup with a stacked team.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:09 AM
  #31
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I never heard the Milbury thing before. I do remember when he said that he didn't think Ray Bourque was a top 50 defenseman because abandoned his team so he win a Cup with a stacked team.
it stopped being acceptable to say Bourque was not top-50 around 1982.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 05:00 AM
  #32
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,010
vCash: 500
One of his arguments about Bobby Orr was that he was supposedly a "defensive liability" who was frequently caught out of position due to his rink long rushes.

In the late-80s he was claiming that Kevin Lowe was the NHL's best defenceman. It could be that he was a traditionalist who felt that Milbury and Lowe played the way a defenceman was supposed to play, but more than likely he was just stirring things up.

He was similar to the Ottawa sports writer Earl McRae, who would often make nonsensical inflammatory comments for no other reason than to generate controversy.


Last edited by reckoning: 03-07-2013 at 05:06 AM.
reckoning is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 05:02 AM
  #33
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 22,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SealsFan View Post
I notice when his name is mentioned here there's usually a negative comment or two. I recall he wasn't that popular when I was reading his articles in the Hockey News and magazines back in the 70's. He didn't always follow the popular opinion; I recall once he was advocating a return to 4-on-4 hockey with a rover. He always had good anecdotes about the game from the 50's and 60's and it didn't seem like he was arrogant or a know-it-all. What am I missing?
People are insecure.

If someone like McKenzie brings up a stupid suggestion, I guess I would be irritated. But Fischler? He just isn't that type.

Ola is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 09:28 PM
  #34
DT77
Registered User
 
DT77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 46
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Fischler seemed to take Edmonton's dethroning of the Islanders personally. I'm not sure if he still does, but his stuff from the 80's is constantly trying to diminish Gretzky's accomplishments and just run down the Oilers in general. Just an overall lack of professionalism in some of his "opinions". At some point, even an opinion becomes too outlandish to be considered valid and it is clear the author is just trying to be a contrarian to stir people up.
Came to say essentially the same thing. After the Islanders beat the Oilers in '83, he went ON and ON in numerous articles about how the Oilers could never beat a team like the Islanders because they lacked the drive/determination/heart/other standard sports cliches to get the job done. He went on to say that Gretzky could never lead a team to a Cup because of, well... essentially the same reasons as above. Sure enough, when the Oilers do knock the Islanders off, his next articles are written as if he's been gutted. By the end of the decade though, he speaks their praises as if he's always thought they were great. Absolutely painful to read.

In essence, to the OP:

Overly opinionated without any ability to back up his claims despite his incredible knowledge of the history of the game (though, completely biased moreso to the New York area)

DT77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 09:37 PM
  #35
Giacomin
Registered User
 
Giacomin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,264
vCash: 500
Fischler was very pro Islander during their glory years years and I know most NY Rangers fans can,t stand him

Giacomin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 09:39 PM
  #36
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
His main argument against Orr was that he dominated the NHL when the NHL was at it's weakest competitive point. Probably true with expansion and the WHA, but still a ridiculous ranking. IMO it had more to do with sour grapes over Orr's Bruins always beating the Rangers.
While I do agree it was the NHL's weakest competitive point, Orr did dominate and was the straw that stirred that drink in Boston and absolutely made Phil Espostio, much as Phil doesn't think so.

I agree that ranking is too low unless one place a really really high value on career value but then it wouldn't make sense with some of the other rankings either.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 10:36 PM
  #37
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 11,079
vCash: 500
I seem to remember Fischler had Dale Hawerchuk and Kevin Lowe in his Top 100 too. I remember reading that then and being a bit bemused in spite of being just a kid. It was especially odd because Fischler had little time for current players anyway, so to pick those guys just seemed bizarre.

TheMoreYouKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 05:35 AM
  #38
cam042686
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 352
vCash: 500
As a writer myself, the only issues I have/had with Stan Fischler are he has put out a lot of “fluff”. Many of his books were about contemporary teams (ie; “The Blazing North Stars”, “Bobby Clarke and the Ferocious Flyers”, “I have Got to be Me” – ghost written for Derek Sanderson, etc.) They were not very well written and were rushed to market to jump on the bandwagon of a popular team or player.

I take pride in the fact that my 3 books (track me down on Amazon.com) were very detailed and very well researched. Not every book has to be an academic dissertation or like you find with Canadian Football writer Frank Cosentino, they can be very dull. You have to know your audience. But you can take the time to fully research a sports topic and then write an engaging book. (I have attached a review to my book “A Slip in the Rain” to show it can be done. It took me 3 years to write and research it and the end result is a detailed, fun book) But with Fischler I found in many cases (not all – the guy can write) you get a lot of superfluous “fluff”.

Craig Wallace


"There are so few books on the Canadian Football League it's always gratifying to come across another and one this good. You can read the title yourself to get an idea on what the book is all about but basically this is about the Leo Cahill coached era of the Argos. Because at that time the CFL could compete with the NFL for top quality players salary-wise, the Argos recruited a lot of high profile U.S. college stars (Joe Theismann, Jim Stillwagon, Jim Corrigall and Leon McQuay). These and other stars, the team's swagger and the fact they were from Tarrana--the city every Canadian not from there hates--was obvious fuel for a great story win or lose.

Author Craig Wallace helps make those seasons come alive with a very engaging writing style as he blends the game-by-game struggles with all the backroom dealings (Cahill's recruiting methods offer up some classic tales). The book also does not stop at this 1972 season. The epilogue gives a short and sweet summation of the Argos through the years afterwards as well as an update "where are they now?" on all the main 1967-72 protagonists.

Lastly, the book gave me a greater appreciation for CFL Hall of Famer Dick Thornton who although primarily a defensive back could do it all from pass receiving to even emergency backup quarterbacking. Thornton did this with a flair for the dramatic and a style that was pretty a reflection of how it was in the '70s."

cam042686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 06:59 AM
  #39
cam042686
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
While I do agree it was the NHL's weakest competitive point, Orr did dominate and was the straw that stirred that drink in Boston and absolutely made Phil Espostio, much as Phil doesn't think so.

I agree that ranking is too low unless one place a really really high value on career value but then it wouldn't make sense with some of the other rankings either.
I have to say Phil Esposito showed in the 72 Summit, and the 77 World Championships that he didn't need Bobby Orr or Bobby Hull. He could carry a team on his own.

Craig Wallace

cam042686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 08:10 AM
  #40
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 12,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I never heard the Milbury thing before. I do remember when he said that he didn't think Ray Bourque was a top 50 defenseman because abandoned his team so he win a Cup with a stacked team.
It was in the early 80s.

Fischler would write a piece in THN that was basically a series of observations on the game. It was easy to read, controversial and was purely opinion with little or no explaination.

His comment was "I'll take Mike Milbury over Ray Bourque any day of the week".

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 08:13 AM
  #41
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 12,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
While I do agree it was the NHL's weakest competitive point, Orr did dominate and was the straw that stirred that drink in Boston and absolutely made Phil Espostio, much as Phil doesn't think so.

I agree that ranking is too low unless one place a really really high value on career value but then it wouldn't make sense with some of the other rankings either.
There are a lot of us that don't think so.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 08:15 AM
  #42
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 12,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickel41 View Post
Fischler was very pro Islander during their glory years years and I know most NY Rangers fans can,t stand him
Before the Islanders became great he was very pro Rangers.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2013, 09:07 AM
  #43
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Like the legendary "Patrick Roy might be worth his salary if it were paid out in Confederate dollars"?
Never heard that one, but it does sound Fischleresque to me. I mean, the guy has some hockey history under his belt, he was at the game where Clarence Campbell got harassed by the Canadiens fans after the Richard suspension. The game was forfeited and it started the famous "Richard Riot". Who among us living today can honestly say we were there? Stan has so much good at his disposal and instead of being a guy we revere he uses it to stir the pot for no good reason.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2013, 09:51 AM
  #44
mandiblesofdoom
Registered User
 
mandiblesofdoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,352
vCash: 500
Fischler is usually a waste of time. They bring him on for "expert" commentary, and he fills the time with nice-sounding words that say nothing.

mandiblesofdoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2013, 10:35 AM
  #45
unknown33
Registered User
 
unknown33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Europe
Country: Marshall Islands
Posts: 3,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
I seem to remember Fischler had Dale Hawerchuk and Kevin Lowe in his Top 100 too. I remember reading that then and being a bit bemused in spite of being just a kid.
Why? Doesn't seem very out of place to me. (BOLDED)

unknown33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2013, 10:43 AM
  #46
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 931
Fischler obviously is on the no-no-list. A bum out to promote his persona.

Darth Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.