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Alex Edler- What happened?

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Old
03-06-2013, 11:33 PM
  #51
me2
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Originally Posted by Tim McCracken View Post
Agreed under the current and old cap but I doubt anybody will blow about $9 million combined on a second D pairing going forward.
The cap is the same as it was in 2011-12, teams didn't think twice about offering guys those contracts then. Bieksa himself was signed for the 2011-12 $64m cap. The $70m cap was basically a one off, it didn't change that much.

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Old
03-06-2013, 11:35 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Kings, Ranger, Ducks, Sharks, Nashville, etc. That's just top teams that I looked at, most of the non-playoff teams also fit into that category.

Canucks will be one when they dump one of their goalies. We barely have any money tied up in Schroeder, Sestito, Weise, Lapierre, Pinizzotto, Barker, Tanev, and Alberts.
They'll need to qualify Schroeder and Tanev and no doubt want to keep Lapierre. The rest shouldn't command much and can go but they do need to replace them and they face risking downgrading their 2nd and 3rd lines if they don't do something with Raymond and Higgins.

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03-06-2013, 11:37 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McCracken View Post
They'll need to qualify Schroeder and Tanev and no doubt want to keep Lapierre. The rest shouldn't command much and can go but they do need to replace them and they face risking downgrading their 2nd and 3rd lines if they don't do something with Raymond and Higgins.
Still keeps us below 1m average due to how little Weise and our 7th and 8th D make. If Jensen makes the team then that's another cheap contract to add.

As Gillis and Gilman have repeatedly mentioned, fans worry about the cap way too much. It's really not as big of a problem as everyone always seems to make it.

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03-07-2013, 01:06 AM
  #54
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Bad coaching.

He's going to get his PP points and 30 points overall and he's shown that with pre and post Ehrhoff. It's his steadiness in his own zone and sudden attacks of bonehead plays that are concerning.

Yes, he makes dumb mistakes. Too many. No stat really shows that tendency. He could definitely improve there but I think it's all magnified by the fact he hasn't had a consistent linemate for 1.5 years.

First of all, although I think he is #1 D-man in terms of ability, IMO he is not a Weber, Doughty, or Suter-type traditional guy who can play 24-25 minutes. If you think about it, this is not supposed to be a top-pair-heavy defence-core anyways, it's not built like that. He's not an economical skater and when he's at his best he hits a lot which takes up a lot of energy.

What he SHOULD be doing is getting his normal ES shift, and the PP time for a total of around 21-22 minutes. This year so far that would be 21:45 of TOI. Like so many on this team he is leaned on to do too much, and now he is used to it. Honestly, I think he's tired. I'd rather see him regain his poise at ES in both ends and contribute to the PP. I don't think he's needed to PK 2 minutes a game, and I don't think it's coincidence that his lapses have occurred in the last two years in which he's been asked to play 24 minutes a game.

Asking him to play less would also reduce wear and tear. Again, coaching.

Coaching comes into play again with the constant juggling of the pairings. It's weird - they trust him enough to overuse him, but not enough to ride out his ups and downs with the same partner.

Also the coaches in regards to taking responsibility when he does make mistakes. Obviously you don't give him the Ballard treatment but a subtle benching here and there could have made a difference. When have we ever seen Edler's icetime reduced, even for just a shift? Or put him on the 2nd unit for a couple of PP's.

Yes, he does get turnstiled a lot - but look at his turnovers. How often is he the last man back who is carrying the puck? Why is he essentially on an island like that? More puck support would help Edler and the entire d-core look a LOT better.

Edler has all the tools, and from what I've read a good work ethic and attitude. So either he is what he is (which I don't believe, I believe he has more upside) or he's missing the proper coaching to get him to the next level of his game by playing to his strengths. I'll go with the latter.

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Old
03-07-2013, 01:29 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Are you serious??

That is absolutely not correct. Hes honestly been our worst defenseman all year.

Hammer- steady and solid as always
Bieksa- made way less bad pinches and team was winning w him in
Tanev- Nuff said, cool as a cucumber, mistake free
Garrison- struggled, maybe as bad as Edler
Ballard, been consistent and smart. Sometimes trys to do too much, but been very solid.

The only player thats MAYBE been worse is Garrison
Anyone who thinks that Ballard has been better than Edler this year is on another planet.

Edler has been in-and-out, but is playing a #1 role at close to 25 minutes/game and doing OK. He's had some poor games and is in a bit of a funk over the last 8-10 (like the rest of the team) but is hardly a major problem.

Nor is Garrison, who has been outright excellent for the past 15 games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McCracken View Post
Edler is a decent yet inconsistent second pairing d-man who's about to be overpaid. Amazing how good goaltending has made guys like him and Bieksa rich.
People honestly have no idea what a second-pairing defender is it seems.

Edler plays 25 minutes/game of strong two-way hockey, scores 40-50 points, and is a #1-2 defender on every single team in the NHL.

Being in a bit of a slump right now doesn't change that.

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Old
03-07-2013, 01:40 AM
  #56
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the best part is how many people are upset at his 8 shot, 17 attempted shots game vs san jose

if he had that game every night he would be hands down the most dominant defenceman in the league and with a little luck he'd win the rocket richard, lol

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03-07-2013, 01:58 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
the best part is how many people are upset at his 8 shot, 17 attempted shots game vs san jose

if he had that game every night he would be hands down the most dominant defenceman in the league and with a little luck he'd win the rocket richard, lol
Dominant how?

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03-07-2013, 02:16 AM
  #58
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Dominant how?
in that he would have 656 shots in an 82 game season? what about that doesn't scream dominant to you?

mike green had 242 shots in his 30 goal season. esposito had the most shots in a season at 550 and ray bourque, the most prolific shooter in nhl history had 6206 shots in 24 seasons. if edler got over 10% of that number in ONE season it would be the most ridiculous statistical accomplishment since that british dude's 100 test score in that sport nobody likes

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03-07-2013, 02:22 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
in that he would have 656 shots in an 82 game season? what about that doesn't scream dominant to you?

mike green had 242 shots in his 30 goal season. esposito had the most shots in a season at 550 and ray bourque, the most prolific shooter in nhl history had 6206 shots in 24 seasons. if edler got over 10% of that number in ONE season it would be the most ridiculous statistical accomplishment since that british dude's 100 test score in that sport nobody likes
So if the Canucks could be on the powerplay all game, including 4 on 3s, then Edler would have tons of shots?

Most dominant defensman ever!




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Old
03-07-2013, 02:31 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
So if the Canucks could be on the powerplay all game, including 4 on 3s, then Edler would have tons of shots?

Most dominant defensman ever!



oh boo hoo

he had 4 shots even strength and 4 shots on the pp. lets go with twice as much shooting on the PP vs 5 on 5 (which isn't right, because vancouver shoots about 1.3x as more with the man advantage, not 2x, but thats not league wide right now) so that would be 6 shots a game. that's still almost 30 goals at edler's career sh%. not good enough! trade him!! bad player bad contract

if all you can see is a couple giveaways leading to soft goals, i'm sorry man, you might be hopeless

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Old
03-07-2013, 02:34 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
in that he would have 656 shots in an 82 game season? what about that doesn't scream dominant to you?

mike green had 242 shots in his 30 goal season. esposito had the most shots in a season at 550 and ray bourque, the most prolific shooter in nhl history had 6206 shots in 24 seasons. if edler got over 10% of that number in ONE season it would be the most ridiculous statistical accomplishment since that british dude's 100 test score in that sport nobody likes
I know a bit about cricket and have know idea what you are on about.

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03-07-2013, 02:35 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
I know a bit about cricket and have know idea what you are on about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bradman

note: I dont like, watch or care about cricket, it was only a statistical statement

edit: maybe exaggerated. a bit

edit2: oh he's australian. ****, it's all the same in the 1930s

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Old
03-07-2013, 02:45 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bradman

note: I dont like, watch or care about cricket, it was only a statistical statement

edit: maybe exaggerated. a bit

edit2: oh he's australian. ****, it's all the same in the 1930s
ha ha yea I understood that. I just thought there is no British player to do anything remarkable, but I sort of guessed you were talking about Don.
and if you meant his average when you said 100 test score then it not really an exaggeration since it was 99.

Also I know you don't give a **** but I'm board as hell

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03-07-2013, 02:58 AM
  #64
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Alex is easily our best defenseman when he's on his game.

He's just in a bit of a slump, he'll come around.

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Old
03-07-2013, 08:30 AM
  #65
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To be fair, most of our D has looked out of sync this year.
Edler has always been inconsistent defensively. That's what holds
him back from being Norris calibre.

As someone mentioned, I think he's playing too many minutes.

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03-07-2013, 09:35 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
Dominant how?
Everyone is so busy dodging his 20 shots a game that they can't create offensive chances against him?

The problem with Edler is the same it's always been, he's not even a little bit assertive. He looks borderline afraid out there most of the time.

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03-07-2013, 10:00 AM
  #67
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Nothing. He moves the puck, hits and puts up points like he's expected to do. He makes mistakes just like other defensman on his pay scale. He is our best overall dman. There is a problem with our fanbase if they honestly think he's our worst dman, however.

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03-07-2013, 10:18 AM
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The guy you're expecting him to be would be making 6.5m+ on a lifelong contract, not 5m. For what he is being paid, he's excellent value.

The suggestion by somebody that Edler and Garrison have been the worst defensemen this season is so far from reality that it barely even merits a response.

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03-07-2013, 10:21 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
The guy you're expecting him to be would be making 6.5m+ on a lifelong contract, not 5m. For what he is being paid, he's excellent value.

The suggestion by somebody that Edler and Garrison have been the worst defensemen this season is so far from reality that it barely even merits a response.
exactly, anyone who says Ballard has been better than Edler this year is out of their mind

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03-07-2013, 10:57 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
The guy you're expecting him to be would be making 6.5m+ on a lifelong contract, not 5m. For what he is being paid, he's excellent value.
If the $6.5M+ D was being paid $5M, that would be excellent value. If a $5M D was being paid $5M, that is fair value.

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03-07-2013, 11:00 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post
If the $6.5M+ D was being paid $5M, that would be excellent value. If a $5M D was being paid $5M, that is fair value.
Might want to re-read what I said as you missed the point. Hint: there's an important word that you seem to have ignored.

http://capgeek.com/player/1042
http://capgeek.com/player/664

That's the difference between a #1 like Weber and Edler. For what we're paying him and the contract term, Edler is excellent value.

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03-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #72
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Might want to re-read what you said as you missed the point.
I don't really think so unless you meant Edler is worth $5.5M to $6M. You said that he's not a $6.5M D. I agree. I think he's paid what he is worth. Fair, not excellent, value.

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That's the difference between a #1 like Weber and Edler. For what we're paying him and the contract term, Edler is excellent value.
Perspective, I suppose. Weber is poor value.

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03-07-2013, 11:05 AM
  #73
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I don't really think so unless you meant Edler is worth $5.5M to $6M. You said that he's not a $6.5M D. I agree. I think he's paid what he is worth. Fair, not excellent, value.
Term of a contract is a big part of it. You're still missing that key word that I had in there: "lifelong".

Shea Weber makes $13m+ for the next 6 years. In that time Edler earns less than 37% of that amount and then his contract expires.

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Perspective, I suppose. Weber is poor value.
No, I think you're simply living in the past when it comes to D salaries. Guys like Carle signed for 5.5m+ this offseason. 5m is well below market value for a guy like Edler.

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Old
03-07-2013, 11:10 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
You're still missing that key word that I had in there: "lifelong".
There are no more lifelong contracts.

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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
No, I think you're simply living in the past when it comes to D salaries. Guys like Carle signed for 5.5m+ this offseason. 5m is well below market value for a guy like Edler.
Perhaps. If the Canucks hope to win a Cup, they'll need some excellent value from their contracts. They're running out of those.

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03-07-2013, 11:23 AM
  #75
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I thought this topic was about Edler? Why are there always people like you who can never accept the truth? Edler is a fine Dman and easily a top 4 guy. I do not believe he is a top 2 guy and have my doubts as to whether he will ever be. I said I would be more than happy to be wrong but I believe it is what it is. What we see from Edler is what we have. Sooner or later you have to see a player for what he really is. In Edler's case that's a damn fine top 4 guy. I would take Bieksa over Edler any day of the week and if it is a playoff game then twice on Sundays.
I recommend you sit down and watch teams other than the Canucks. I'm not saying this to be pissy, I'm saying it because you would realize that Edler is a top d-man in the league and that any "top 2" d-man makes mistakes on a nightly basis. Some nights they are great, some nights, not so much.

Consider that every time the Canucks score, the other team's fan base is *****ing about how their "supposed top d-man" once again royally screwed up. It's hockey, for goals to be scored, mistakes need to be made. That's what happens in team games. The intent is to limit those mistakes as much as possible, but there will always be mistakes made, otherwise the game would be static and boring.

I think a lot of posters don't watch many games besides the Canucks. Those that do, realize that no team is perfect, nor does any team possess flawless players. It really does help to watch games with two other teams, to put things in perspective.

Back to the matter at hand, Edler is a good defenseman, he's not the best one in the league, but he's easily a top pairing d-man. Spend five minutes looking at other team's depth charts and you'll realize that Edler is a worthy top pairing d. http://forecaster.canada.com/faceoff.../teamindex.cgi

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