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Old
03-08-2013, 12:26 PM
  #176
arsmaster
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Never been much of a Booth fan and have expressed my dislike for him for a while on here.
That being said, he deserves until the off season to prove himself and that he's worth his contract. Otherwise, package him with other valuable assets for an upgrade in the top 6 during the off season.
First line talents are getting 8.25 now, Booth is just fine.

Once he pots one the floodgates will open. Top 6 forwards by nature generally score in bunches.

I believe we'll see that.

I don't know why people aren't happier with the positives. He's creating the most chances on the team of late IMO (I'm sure someone will provide numbers in due course). If he wasn't creating or getting the chances, I'd be concerned but he is, and has every game he's played this year.

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03-08-2013, 12:26 PM
  #177
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Booth is where plays go to die. It's like he plays with his eyes closed. such a sloppy sketchy player. AV must have nightmares.

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03-08-2013, 12:48 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
First line talents are getting 8.25 now, Booth is just fine.

Once he pots one the floodgates will open. Top 6 forwards by nature generally score in bunches.

I believe we'll see that.

I don't know why people aren't happier with the positives. He's creating the most chances on the team of late IMO (I'm sure someone will provide numbers in due course). If he wasn't creating or getting the chances, I'd be concerned but he is, and has every game he's played this year.

Booth isn't a first line talent so that is irrelevant.
A good, recent example would be PA Parenteau signing with the Avalanche for 4 million, cheaper than Booth. Go check out their stats and get back to me with who you'd rather have.

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03-08-2013, 12:51 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by GaryBettman View Post
The point is that Booth hasn't been meeting expectations for production for 5 years now, despite being in the prime of his career and having ample opportunity.

Since 2009:

180 GP, 47 Goals, 39 Assists, 86 PTS

Sorry, but that is not 2nd line production.
Ok so he got injured in 09-10 season, then came back to score 23 goals and 40 points the next year. Then he was traded to Vancouver, took some games to get used to the system and his linemates (Kesler and Higgins) and had a pretty good point streak until he got injured again.

Then he gets injured again this season without any training camp. It's not like Booth's been here years healthy and didn't produce, he was here for only 56 games last season and was on pace for 20 goals and maybe 40 points.

He's been getting better everyday this year too. It sucks that AV's not putting Higgins and Booth together because I thought they had pretty good chemistry but you get my point about Booth.

I'm willing to give him one more full season

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03-08-2013, 12:52 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Booth isn't a first line talent so that is irrelevant.
A good, recent example would be PA Parenteau signing with the Avalanche for 4 million, cheaper than Booth. Go check out their stats and get back to me with who you'd rather have.
Don't need to check stats. I'd rather have Booth.

We have enough small softies like Parenteau (with an even smaller track record of production than Booth).

Grass is always greener as they say, if we had Parenteau we'd be hearing even more claims we're small, soft and easy to play up front.

I like Dave Booth, I think he's been one of our best players of late. I think the goals will come, you don't.

Not going to discuss it anymore, feels like I've gone in circles on this topic in a number of different threads.

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03-08-2013, 12:54 PM
  #181
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If the rest of the team played with half of Booths urgency and fearlessness, the panic button would be gathering dust in the basement.

I can forgive lack of talent, Booth isn't the most skilled player, what I can't stand is seeing star players slack off and pull stupid antics.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:56 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Don't need to check stats. I'd rather have Booth.

We have enough small softies like Parenteau (with an even smaller track record of production than Booth).

Grass is always greener as they say, if we had Parenteau we'd be hearing even more claims we're small, soft and easy to play up front.

I like Dave Booth, I think he's been one of our best players of late. I think the goals will come, you don't.

Not going to discuss it anymore, feels like I've gone in circles on this topic in a number of different threads.
Booth is a fringe power forward who rarely throws big hits, or hits that add any momentum. Yeah, he plays with a bit of an edge, but not enough of an edge to make much of a difference.

I would say trading for Kassian and replacing Salo with Garrison provided much more toughness to this team, and we can get tougher without Booth in the future.

He's obviously going to start scoring eventually, and maybe get on a streak. Doesn't mean he's worth 4.25 and that putting him with Kesler (only real top 6 role available) is a good idea. We need a playmaking winger, that's why I mentioned PA Parenteau (honestly barely seen him playing, but he seems generate a lot of assists/points and is almost a PPG player on COLORADO!).

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03-08-2013, 12:58 PM
  #183
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Booth is a fringe power forward who rarely throws big hits, or hits that add any momentum. Yeah, he plays with a bit of an edge, but not enough of an edge to make much of a difference.
Is this a joke? Booth has 18 hits in 8 games, which means he's hitting more often than Weise and almost as often as Lapierre. And it's not even his main job!

His first game (or was it second?) he was running people over left and right when he was playing on that 4th line, including the shift where he crushed Keith and then followed it up by crushing another Blackhawk seconds after (can't remember the 2nd guy).

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03-08-2013, 01:01 PM
  #184
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Booth is a far better hitter than Kassian.

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03-08-2013, 01:01 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Is this a joke? Booth has 18 hits in 8 games, which means he's hitting more often than Weise and almost as often as Lapierre. And it's not even his main job!

His first game (or was it second?) he was running people over left and right when he was playing on that 4th line, including the shift where he crushed Keith and then followed it up by crushing another Blackhawk seconds after (can't remember the 2nd guy).
I remember that. Two bigs hits on the same shift and I thought it was someone else till I saw Booth's huge grin.

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03-08-2013, 01:02 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Is this a joke? Booth has 18 hits in 8 games, which means he's hitting more often than Weise and almost as often as Lapierre. And it's not even his main job!

His first game he was running people over left and right when he was playing on that 4th line, including the shift where he crushed Keith and then followed it up by crushing another Blackhawk seconds after (can't remember the 2nd guy).
His hits generally don't change the game much. I mean when Booth throws a hit, it's usually pretty soft and the crowd doesn't react much. 18 hits in 8 games doesn't mean anything to me, quantity =/= quality. That Chicago game was good, but as you mentioned, it was his first game and he obviously was extremely motivated to make an impact any way possible. He's a very very light power forward, I honestly think Kesler throws bigger hits than him.

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03-08-2013, 01:03 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
His hits generally don't change the game much. I mean when Booth throws a hit, it's usually pretty soft and the crowd doesn't react much. 18 hits in 8 games doesn't mean anything to me, quantity =/= quality. That Chicago game was good, but as you mentioned, it was his first game and he obviously was extremely motivated to make an impact any way possible. He's a very very light power forward, I honestly think Kesler throws bigger hits than him.

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03-08-2013, 01:03 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by CanucksSayEh View Post
Booth is a far better hitter than Kassian.
Disagree. We'll see during the playoffs, where hitting becomes much more crucial. I'd put money on Kassian throwing bigger hits night in and night out.

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03-08-2013, 01:04 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
His hits generally don't change the game much. I mean when Booth throws a hit, it's usually pretty soft and the crowd doesn't react much. 18 hits in 8 games doesn't mean anything to me, quantity =/= quality. That Chicago game was good, but as you mentioned, it was his first game and he obviously was extremely motivated to make an impact any way possible. He's a very very light power forward, I honestly think Kesler throws bigger hits than him.
Well, then he's the first person on earth to defy physics. He's shorter than Kesler, heavier than Kesler, comes into hits with more speed than Kesler and is a more explosive player. If you think that somehow equates to him landing soft hits then you should probably consider a career in science (or sci-fi storytelling).

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03-08-2013, 01:09 PM
  #190
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Disagree. We'll see during the playoffs, where hitting becomes much more crucial. I'd put money on Kassian throwing bigger hits night in and night out.
We already got a taste of it. Booth split Doughty's eyebrow open, like within the first 5 minutes of game 1. Kassian was scratched.

Booth is slightly heavier, a better skater and less hesitant. Kassian is very innacurate, anyone that sees him coming gets outta the way pretty easily. He does more damage to the boards than anything.

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03-08-2013, 01:09 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Well, then he's the first person on earth to defy physics. He's shorter than Kesler, heavier than Kesler, comes into hits with more speed than Kesler and is a more explosive player. If you think that somehow equates to him landing soft hits then you should probably consider a career in science (or sci-fi storytelling).
Booth is a more explosive player than Kesler? Eh, I can kind of see your point, but based on judging their whole careers, disagree.

Kesler plays with more of an edge and seems to play over his head (like Bieksa), when he wants to throw a big hit, it's more severe than anything I've seen Booth do.
Don't care about size or weight, there are tons of NHL players that are huge but play a soft game (e.g. Thornton). It makes a difference for sure, but it's not telling on how hard a player hits.

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03-08-2013, 01:12 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Booth is a fringe power forward who rarely throws big hits, or hits that add any momentum. Yeah, he plays with a bit of an edge, but not enough of an edge to make much of a difference.

I would say trading for Kassian and replacing Salo with Garrison provided much more toughness to this team, and we can get tougher without Booth in the future.

He's obviously going to start scoring eventually, and maybe get on a streak. Doesn't mean he's worth 4.25 and that putting him with Kesler (only real top 6 role available) is a good idea. We need a playmaking winger, that's why I mentioned PA Parenteau (honestly barely seen him playing, but he seems generate a lot of assists/points and is almost a PPG player on COLORADO!).
So glad you mentioned you've not watched Parenteau play. Explains a lot. Also, racking up points on a crap team, shows that his production would go way down with the lesser role he would recieve behind the twins here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Disagree. We'll see during the playoffs, where hitting becomes much more crucial. I'd put money on Kassian throwing bigger hits night in and night out.


Should have been a tone setter for the entire series (not this hit was thrown 15 seconds into game 1). This was the biggest if not 2nd biggest hit (Bitz on Clifford) thrown by a Canuck the entire series.

You have a short memory.

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03-08-2013, 01:12 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by CanucksSayEh View Post
We already got a taste of it. Booth split Doughty's eyebrow open, like within the first 5 minutes of game 1. Kassian was scratched.

Booth is slightly heavier, a better skater and less hesitant. Kassian is very innacurate, anyone that sees him coming gets outta the way pretty easily. He does more damage to the boards than anything.

According to Canucks.com, Kassian is 2 lbs heavier - not that it matters much though.

And Kassian being scratched during his first NHL season last year is not surprising, a bit too early to really judge his physicality in the post season.

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03-08-2013, 01:15 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
So glad you mentioned you've not watched Parenteau play. Explains a lot. Also, racking up points on a crap team, shows that his production would go way down with the lesser role he would recieve behind the twins here..
He'd be a second line winger, at 4 million that's not bad at all. And I can't see his point production going below what Booth has accomplished so far.


Quote:
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Should have been a tone setter for the entire series (not this hit was thrown 15 seconds into game 1). This was the biggest if not 2nd biggest hit (Bitz on Clifford) thrown by a Canuck the entire series.

You have a short memory.

You just posted a hit that had Doughty sandwiched between Lapierre and Booth. So, to make a point about how hard Booth hits, you post a video that involves 2 Canucks making a hit? That's not very convincing at all.

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03-08-2013, 01:16 PM
  #195
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This thread is a wash if we start compering Booth to Kassian, but if Kassian gets the same drive/work ethic that Booth has, Oh boy would he become a beast.

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03-08-2013, 01:40 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
He'd be a second line winger, at 4 million that's not bad at all. And I can't see his point production going below what Booth has accomplished so far.





You just posted a hit that had Doughty sandwiched between Lapierre and Booth. So, to make a point about how hard Booth hits, you post a video that involves 2 Canucks making a hit? That's not very convincing at all.
No point in continuing this conversation further. Doesn't take a genius to realize Lappy doesn't even get a piece of Doughty here. When Doughty goes flying the same trajectory as Booth approaches the hit to me shows Booth through a very hard check that had at worst 90% of the contact.


edit* pause that video at the 4 second mark. Not sure how anyone who looks at that hit subjectively can't see that Booth hammered Doughty. Lappierre didn't even get a piece of him until he was already flying through the air. Pause it at 12 seconds too.

I'm done with you though, discounting that hit as a sandwich hit shows the bias you have. Cheerio.

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03-08-2013, 01:41 PM
  #197
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I like the positive attitude, it's breath of fresh air around here. BUT, at some point you have to start calling a spade a spade.

Booth is actually the one that hasn't been able to finish his linemates' chances, whiffing on several opportunities, and when he tries to do something himself, his linemates never get the chance to do anything because Booth will usually just end up shoveling the puck into the goalie's chest, ending the play.

I'm still holding out some hope because he's only played 7 games or whatever it is, but unless he starts converting the tap ins that he's been missing, or unless he does something different than his skate down the wing-cut into the middle-shovel the puck into the goalie's chest routine, he's going to get a lot of flack on these boards for his lack of productivity relative to his salary.

And rightfully so.
I agree, but you forgot about his other favorite trick: flying down the wing and taking a low percentage shot that misses the net, allowing the other team to take possession before his linemates have a chance to establish a forecheck.

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03-08-2013, 01:53 PM
  #198
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Booth is a more explosive player than Kesler? Eh, I can kind of see your point, but based on judging their whole careers, disagree.

Kesler plays with more of an edge and seems to play over his head (like Bieksa), when he wants to throw a big hit, it's more severe than anything I've seen Booth do.
Don't care about size or weight, there are tons of NHL players that are huge but play a soft game (e.g. Thornton). It makes a difference for sure, but it's not telling on how hard a player hits.
Thronton is not an explosive player and a ****** skater, what does he have to do with it? Guys that have the weight, height, strength, explosiveness and skating of Booth are fearsome hitters. Every single hit a guy like that levels hurts a ton. The key here is that they have to hit. There are plenty of guys that size that play a soft game and hardly ever hit, that doesn't mean they couldn't do it.

In that video above, if anything Lapierre saves Doughty from getting knocked out. Booth absolutely leveled him and if Doughty actually fell the way he was going to, he's probably out for the series. That hit was as powerful as the one that Torres got suspended for.


Last edited by Tiranis: 03-08-2013 at 01:58 PM.
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03-08-2013, 02:17 PM
  #199
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Ugh, that video makes me upset. Look at all the other players that join Booth when he's on a rush. He's essentially doing it all by himself here, becoming the focus of attention from all defenders and not being able to get good scoring chances. He's been shoehorned into an along the board puck control player.

Just another case of AV not being able to build a system for the various talents of the players on this team.
AV is blind to the obvious. Would be nice to have some proper man-management.

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03-08-2013, 02:25 PM
  #200
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Thronton is not an explosive player and a ****** skater, what does he have to do with it? Guys that have the weight, height, strength, explosiveness and skating of Booth are fearsome hitters. Every single hit a guy like that levels hurts a ton. The key here is that they have to hit. There are plenty of guys that size that play a soft game and hardly ever hit, that doesn't mean they couldn't do it.

In that video above, if anything Lapierre saves Doughty from getting knocked out. Booth absolutely leveled him and if Doughty actually fell the way he was going to, he's probably out for the series. That hit was as powerful as the one that Torres got suspended for.

Your previous post was largely based on the premise that height/weight/speed = how hard a hitter is. Heatley in his prime (and still) is all of those things, yet he's soft. Not saying that Booth is, but you can't really prove how hard a hitter is through those variables. Booth throws hits, but rarely throws big ones lately IMO; maybe injuries are a factor now. I hope he can prove me wrong this season, but he'll never be a true power forward IMO.

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