HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

3/6/13 Avs Lose 3-2 l We Actually Need More Hunwick, Not Less! l Part II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-07-2013, 11:27 AM
  #151
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 14,261
vCash: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Huh?
We were using a 2-2-1 "trap" according to the announcers, but we've never used that style of playing under Sacco since he's been here. He's always used a neutral zone lock where he gave the blue line to the oncoming forwards and had the nearside winger challenge the puck carrier.

Last night we used a neutral zone trap and challenged Chicago at the blue line. I don't believe it was even remotely Sacco's decision/plan because he has never demonstrated the ability to initiate something as intelligent as that.

Quinn calls a lot of our plays on the bench and it would make sense if he built that game plan.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:32 AM
  #152
The Pwnerer
We are never give up
 
The Pwnerer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,733
vCash: 500
This team needs veteran leadership. So many times this team has blown in the game in the dying minutes or given up huge leads and what not. Giving Landeskog the C was great and all but you can just sense how much pressure he must be feeling. Add to that a sophomore slump, concussion problems and we don't have as effect a player then last year.

The Pwnerer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:32 AM
  #153
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We were using a 2-2-1 "trap" according to the announcers, but we've never used that style of playing under Sacco since he's been here. He's always used a neutral zone lock where he gave the blue line to the oncoming forwards and had the nearside winger challenge the puck carrier.

Last night we used a neutral zone trap and challenged Chicago at the blue line. I don't believe it was even remotely Sacco's decision/plan because he has never demonstrated the ability to initiate something as intelligent as that.

Quinn calls a lot of our plays on the bench and it would make sense if he built that game plan.
Okay, now I get it, thanks.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:35 AM
  #154
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 21,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We were using a 2-2-1 "trap" according to the announcers, but we've never used that style of playing under Sacco since he's been here. He's always used a neutral zone lock where he gave the blue line to the oncoming forwards and had the nearside winger challenge the puck carrier.

Last night we used a neutral zone trap and challenged Chicago at the blue line. I don't believe it was even remotely Sacco's decision/plan because he has never demonstrated the ability to initiate something as intelligent as that.

Quinn calls a lot of our plays on the bench and it would make sense if he built that game plan.
This is correct. We have never used a 1-2-2 from any game that I remember in the past. Quinn has used it a number of times in the AHL when he coached the Monsters. I'm pretty sure Quinn is taking over some duties right now. A sign that Sacco is really on thin ice.

henchman24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:37 AM
  #155
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 9,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We were using a 2-2-1 "trap" according to the announcers, but we've never used that style of playing under Sacco since he's been here. He's always used a neutral zone lock where he gave the blue line to the oncoming forwards and had the nearside winger challenge the puck carrier.

Last night we used a neutral zone trap and challenged Chicago at the blue line. I don't believe it was even remotely Sacco's decision/plan because he has never demonstrated the ability to initiate something as intelligent as that.

Quinn calls a lot of our plays on the bench and it would make sense if he built that game plan.
Yeah I was like WTF? when I seen that formation... The question is, do you like it?

Do we want to be a team that plays like NJ or Phoenix? After typing this, I realized that both of those teams usually make the playoffs.


CobraAcesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:41 AM
  #156
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 14,261
vCash: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Yeah I was like WTF? when I seen that formation... The question is, do you like it?

Do we want to be a team that plays like NJ or Phoenix? After typing this, I realized that both of those teams usually make the playoffs.

Ideally, no you do not want to play the trap. But it's an effective strategy for teams that don't have the talent to succeed without slowing down the game.

Given the fact our defense couldn't outskate an 80 year old grandma, it helps us. But our team is too young and skilled up front to use this long term. It could also hurt our chances of adding talent to the lineup by putting us into the "average-zone" of teams in the ~11th overall range.

It's nice to see the Avs adapt to another team for once and gives me hope someone like Quinn can think outside the box, but in the end I'd rather we lose games than tread water by playing the trap.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:41 AM
  #157
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 21,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Yeah I was like WTF? when I seen that formation... The question is, do you like it?

Do we want to be a team that plays like NJ or Phoenix? After typing this, I realized that both of those teams usually make the playoffs.

We don't have enough pure skill to win in the 'system' we play now. If the trap leads to winning, I am all for it.

henchman24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:44 AM
  #158
AslanRH
Plebeian Poster
 
AslanRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wyoming, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,011
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
This is correct. We have never used a 1-2-2 from any game that I remember in the past. Quinn has used it a number of times in the AHL when he coached the Monsters. I'm pretty sure Quinn is taking over some duties right now. A sign that Sacco is really on thin ice.
or he's being discovered as a deer in the headlights. Quinn may be being proactive by just taking the reigns, and i also see some of the players doing the same.
Ever since Stastny made that comment about "just playing and not worrying about the system" (not exact quote), it seems to me that his line has been doing much more carrying the puck in and cycling and less dump and chase. But I may just be seeing what I want to see.

AslanRH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:45 AM
  #159
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Yeah I was like WTF? when I seen that formation... The question is, do you like it?

Do we want to be a team that plays like NJ or Phoenix? After typing this, I realized that both of those teams usually make the playoffs.

The trap doesn't bother me--as Ron Wilson has shown, you can be a run-and-gun type coach and still be just as averse to offensive creativity. It's when a team becomes a one-dimensional dump-and-chase team, like the Avs were to start the season, that bothers the hell out of me. They're at least skating the puck out of the zone and are getting some competent outlet passing from Barrie and O'Brien to make a go of it now, but unfortunately, the abundance of bricks on skates the Avs have on D necessitate a more passive-style defense without that deadly transition game they used to implement to perfection.

All I ask for in any defensive scheme is a defense that's allowed to jump into the play and a strong forecheck. The reason Nashville, Phoenix, and Jersey are boring is not their scheme--it's that they don't have much in the way of firepower or creativity up front.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:53 AM
  #160
Avs
Bozak + 2nd
 
Avs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 3,377
vCash: 500
So does anyone think we will be able to play 3 good games in a row?

I have a feeling that we are going to get blown out Friday. Seeing the way we have played the last 2 games, I don't know if it's a glimpse of what we are going to see the rest of the year or if they will just be out of gas now.

Avs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:55 AM
  #161
AslanRH
Plebeian Poster
 
AslanRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wyoming, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,011
vCash: 50
The return of EJ, Hejduk and (hopefully) Wilson should help us pull off 3 good efforts in a row.

AslanRH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 11:56 AM
  #162
Bubba Thudd
Random Stranger
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Monkey Bars
Posts: 16,888
vCash: 5891
Major blowout coming Friday.

__________________
Let's Burn Our Villagers To The Ground!
Bubba Thudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:09 PM
  #163
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 9,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
The return of EJ, Hejduk and (hopefully) Wilson should help us pull off 3 good efforts in a row.
Yeah and I don't believe for a second that with, Duchene, Landeskog, EJ, and O'Reilly in the lineup we will see too many 'lackluster' efforts. Keep in mind we have been without as many as three of those guys, or at least two of them for much of the season.

All of those guys give 100% every shift, McGinn and Parenteau usually do as well. I wish I could put Stastny's name on this list, but I can't tell if it's just because hes buried in defensive responsibility or if hes actually playing less enthusiastically than he has in the past.

The advanced stats numbers point to Stastny having the hardest minutes, and starting in the defensive zone more often as well. So I'll have to concede that '12 points in his last 16 games' is impressive all things considered.

Getting EJ and Wilson back in the lineup with Barrie now bring an NHL game on both sides of the puck is not something we have gotten to see yet. I'm not sure we will see the full effect that has on Friday though. I mean how well do you expect two defenders to play in their first game back after such a long time away?

But if the 'team' continues to play this way, and we can get a healthy legit top 4 defense firing on all cylinders. Then we might start to see some fruit on this seemingly dead tree. I just wonder if by that time, will it be to late to salvage the season?

CobraAcesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:17 PM
  #164
hawk30
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Aurora, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We were using a 2-2-1 "trap" according to the announcers, but we've never used that style of playing under Sacco since he's been here. He's always used a neutral zone lock where he gave the blue line to the oncoming forwards and had the nearside winger challenge the puck carrier.

Last night we used a neutral zone trap and challenged Chicago at the blue line. I don't believe it was even remotely Sacco's decision/plan because he has never demonstrated the ability to initiate something as intelligent as that.

Quinn calls a lot of our plays on the bench and it would make sense if he built that game plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
This is correct. We have never used a 1-2-2 from any game that I remember in the past. Quinn has used it a number of times in the AHL when he coached the Monsters. I'm pretty sure Quinn is taking over some duties right now. A sign that Sacco is really on thin ice.

There's some equivocation on what is meant by "neutral zone trap" here, but this is mostly incorrect:

1. We used this exact same variation against Detroit the other night.
2. We used a slightly different, more traditional neutral zone 1-2-2 "trap" earlier in the season. See the Minnesota games and the Edmonton comeback for examples.
3. We've used both systems many many many times in the past under Sacco. Neither is new. I remember sitting in Pepsi Center two years ago just after Christmas against Vancouver and watching us "trap."

Just because Peter McNabb is too stupid to point it out doesn't mean it hasn't been going on for a long time.

That said, I agree that Quinn, and Sacco's assistants in general, have a lot of discretion, but I don't think that is a new innovation either.

hawk30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:18 PM
  #165
bohlmeister
Moves Like Malkin
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We were using a 2-2-1 "trap" according to the announcers, but we've never used that style of playing under Sacco since he's been here. He's always used a neutral zone lock where he gave the blue line to the oncoming forwards and had the nearside winger challenge the puck carrier.

Last night we used a neutral zone trap and challenged Chicago at the blue line. I don't believe it was even remotely Sacco's decision/plan because he has never demonstrated the ability to initiate something as intelligent as that.

Quinn calls a lot of our plays on the bench and it would make sense if he built that game plan.
I don't think that is correct. The first season we played that style, when we would sit back on teams and hope Andy could steal us wins. We played that style the entire series against San Jose. It worked well because at the time we were such a quick team, and our defense could transition the puck better. We fed off of other teams turn overs. Now they feed off of ours. Sherman has really ****ed this teams defense up, as far as the way Sacco wants our team to play. That is why Hunwick gets so much ice time, he is one of the only guys that can move the puck. And yes, I know that 40% of the time he passes it to the other team. This isn't a affirmation that Sacco is a good Coach. He still does ******** things, but there are some reasons behind his madness.

This is one reason I really hate the camera angles that they use. I wish there was an option to have the entire ice surface on screen at once. Zoom out, I want to see plays develop and where the players are away from the puck.


Last edited by bohlmeister: 03-07-2013 at 12:49 PM.
bohlmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:21 PM
  #166
Big Perm
Fiddy
 
Big Perm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boone, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 5,337
vCash: 50
I just feel we figure out a way to win the last two games (or at least get a point out of them) when we get experience.
Right now it is frustrating to watch, but eventually they will learn how to do it.

Big Perm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:26 PM
  #167
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 21,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk30 View Post
There's some equivocation on what is meant by "neutral zone trap" here, but this is mostly incorrect:

1. We used this exact same variation against Detroit the other night.
2. We used a slightly different, more traditional neutral zone 1-2-2 "trap" earlier in the season. See the Minnesota games and the Edmonton comeback for examples.
3. We've used both systems many many many times in the past under Sacco. Neither is new. I remember sitting in Pepsi Center two years ago just after Christmas against Vancouver and watching us "trap."

Just because Peter McNabb is too stupid to point it out doesn't mean it hasn't been going on for a long time.

That said, I agree that Quinn, and Sacco's assistants in general, have a lot of discretion, but I don't think that is a new innovation either.
I don't recall us using the 1-2-2 in years past. I much more recall using a left wing lock. Under Sacco we have given up the blue line far, far too much to ever be considered a neutral zone trap team.

henchman24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:27 PM
  #168
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 8,160
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Major blowout coming Friday.
Effin predicting 12-24 inches in some areas.

I have to drive 30 mins to skool on Saturday morning and no on (weather stations) have been able to tell me when the snow will start blowing. I keep hearing it starts Friday and then I go to another station and it tells me it starts in the afternoon on Saturday.

Do you know anything Bubba, you seem like a guy to watch the local news!

S E P H is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 12:30 PM
  #169
Bubba Thudd
Random Stranger
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Monkey Bars
Posts: 16,888
vCash: 5891
I would never be foolish enough to try to predict the weather in Colorado.

And I don't watch the local news, weather, sports. I don't watch the weather channel, either. I watch TV for pleasure, not stress and depression (with some Avs games being the exception...).

Bubba Thudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 02:36 PM
  #170
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,381
vCash: 500
Another reason not to like Hunwick--his shot is even more inaccurate than Derek Morris's. And that's saying something. Dude can't even hit the net at point blank range.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 02:50 PM
  #171
ChibiPooky
Yay hockey!
 
ChibiPooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fairfax, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,584
vCash: 500
After just finishing what felt like 30 seasons of the most excruciating trap ever under Dale Hunter, the last thing I want to see is an excruciating trap under Sacco.

I also have a theory that I just made up based on nothing that trapping stunts the growth of young players.

Palushaj is a gamer. Wonder why he got waived.

ChibiPooky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 02:54 PM
  #172
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
After just finishing what felt like 30 seasons of the most excruciating trap ever under Dale Hunter, the last thing I want to see is an excruciating trap under Sacco.

I also have a theory that I just made up based on nothing that trapping stunts the growth of young players.

Palushaj is a gamer. Wonder why he got waived.
That's only because Dale Hunter is a moron. Sacco's a bad coach, but he's not stupid...not completely at least.

As for Palushaj, we'll see if he continues with this sort of effort. From what little I've seen of the guy, that effort isn't always consistent. Sad to say, he's been better than Hejduk.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 04:09 PM
  #173
bohlmeister
Moves Like Malkin
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
That's only because Dale Hunter is a moron. Sacco's a bad coach, but he's not stupid...not completely at least.

As for Palushaj, we'll see if he continues with this sort of effort. From what little I've seen of the guy, that effort isn't always consistent. Sad to say, he's been better than Hejduk.
He seems to be running a decent program in London. He also took the Caps team a lot further in the playoffs than anyone would have thought.

bohlmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 05:06 PM
  #174
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
He seems to be running a decent program in London. He also took the Caps team a lot further in the playoffs than anyone would have thought.
I don't think it takes a great hockey mind to run a successful junior program in London, Ontario. There's a reason why he wasn't brought back after less than a season on the job. And just because the team's rough start lowered expectations doesn't mean Hunter deserves praise for getting the team past the first round.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 05:07 PM
  #175
NothingLikeAnEJ
Jimmies: Rustled
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I don't think it takes a great hockey mind to run a successful junior program in London, Ontario. There's a reason why he wasn't brought back after less than a season on the job. And just because the team's rough start lowered expectations doesn't mean Hunter deserves praise for getting the team past the first round.
Hunter chose to go back to London where he feels comfortable. I'm pretty sure the Caps wanted him to stay and he told them no.

NothingLikeAnEJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.