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Hodgson Trade Discussion

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Old
03-08-2013, 08:54 AM
  #226
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
Derek Roy has 15 points in 18 games. +7 too

Ribiero has 28 points in 22 games.

Ennis has 18.

Brad Boyes has 18. If only .....

Has anyone answered this me2? I mean if a Hodgson type is so vital, why not go after Roy or Ribeiro in his stead? Seems you'll get the same player traits, similar production, and perhaps some defense too... Is this what people advocate we are missing here? Or does Hodgson represent a unique offensive talent these players can't approach?

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03-08-2013, 09:26 AM
  #227
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Gillis had every right to "throw" Cody under the bus. First of all, he was a cancer to deal with, and secondly, the uneducated nerdy Cody fan boy club was turning hostile and he needed to justify the reasoning behind the trade. Cody didn't wanna be here - he was acting like a little ****** - he couldn't play defense - his teammates didn't like him - he wasn't going to surpass Henrik or Kesler for many years - AV didn't wanna use him, and we needed a big physical skilled power forward. You can't hide centers in the playoffs, I'm sorry. Can't win with them - Can't coach with them - Can't do it.

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03-08-2013, 09:44 AM
  #228
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What a bunch of crap.

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03-08-2013, 11:05 AM
  #229
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I see a ton of people in denial

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:07 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Gillis had every right to "throw" Cody under the bus. First of all, he was a cancer to deal with, and secondly, the uneducated nerdy Cody fan boy club was turning hostile and he needed to justify the reasoning behind the trade. Cody didn't wanna be here - he was acting like a little ****** - he couldn't play defense - his teammates didn't like him - he wasn't going to surpass Henrik or Kesler for many years - AV didn't wanna use him, and we needed a big physical skilled power forward. You can't hide centers in the playoffs, I'm sorry. Can't win with them - Can't coach with them - Can't do it.
That's an awful lotta not true at all..

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03-08-2013, 11:09 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Gillis had every right to "throw" Cody under the bus. First of all, he was a cancer to deal with, and secondly, the uneducated nerdy Cody fan boy club was turning hostile and he needed to justify the reasoning behind the trade. Cody didn't wanna be here - he was acting like a little ****** - he couldn't play defense - his teammates didn't like him - he wasn't going to surpass Henrik or Kesler for many years - AV didn't wanna use him, and we needed a big physical skilled power forward. You can't hide centers in the playoffs, I'm sorry. Can't win with them - Can't coach with them - Can't do it.
/facepalm

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:12 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by CanucksSayEh View Post
That's an awful lotta not true at all..
We can all speculate back and forth, but what player DEMANDS a trade and has his dad ***** for more ice time? These are known facts.

A guy who wouldn't care how pissed off the team is about his demands.

What kind of guy demands a trade right after his team won the presidents trophy and came within one game of winning the stanley cup . He was freaking 21 years old.

This is also a fact.

Nobody does this when they desperately want to play on a team. It stands to reason he was not going to shed a tear if we cut him loose.

Neither were the players. They put a plastic 'C' on his sweater the morning he was traded to mock him.

This is also a fact.

You can love him all you want, and we can speculate all we want, but these are the actual facts. It aint a guy who was loved by his team mates nor was he willing to wait until his turn.

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03-08-2013, 11:17 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
We can all speculate back and forth, but what player DEMANDS a trade and has his dad ***** for more ice time? These are known facts.

A guy who wouldn't care how pissed off the team is about his demands.

What kind of guy demands a trade right after his team won the presidents trophy and came within one game of winning the stanley cup . He was freaking 21 years old.

This is also a fact.

Nobody does this when they desperately want to play on a team. It stands to reason he was not going to shed a tear if we cut him loose.

Neither were the players. They put a plastic 'C' on his sweater the morning he was traded to mock him.

This is also a fact.

You can love him all you want, and we can speculate all we want, but these are the actual facts. It aint a guy who was loved by his team mates nor was he willing to wait until his turn.
None of that is true either.. too much reading into stuff and graspin at straws.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:17 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by RezChi View Post
I see a ton of people in denial
denial of what?

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:18 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
We can all speculate back and forth, but what player DEMANDS a trade and has his dad ***** for more ice time? These are known facts.

A guy who wouldn't care how pissed off the team is about his demands.

What kind of guy demands a trade right after his team won the presidents trophy and came within one game of winning the stanley cup . He was freaking 21 years old.

This is also a fact.

Nobody does this when they desperately want to play on a team. It stands to reason he was not going to shed a tear if we cut him loose.

Neither were the players. They put a plastic 'C' on his sweater the morning he was traded to mock him.

This is also a fact.

You can love him all you want, and we can speculate all we want, but these are the actual facts. It aint a guy who was loved by his team mates nor was he willing to wait until his turn.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "fact".

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:44 AM
  #236
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Given our now supposed lack of C depth, Hodgson would look excellent in a Canucks uniform. He would be our leading goal scorer right now. Say what you want about his defensive game, but we don't have anyone who can put the puck in the net like he can. And while I realize he's not playing with 3rd or 4th line scrubs in Buffalo like he was here, isn't that because maybe Buffalo has put him in a role for him to succeed because he is a top 6 forward and not a bottom 6 forward like AV tried to turn him into? Tomas Vanek and Jason Pominville aren't exactly the greatest defensive forwards either, so how about flanking Hodgson with two guys who are? Our second line could have been something like Higgins-Hodgson-Kesler.

I know we need players like Kassian, but we didn't need to lose the trade badly just to get one.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:47 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Tomas Vanek and Jason Pominville aren't exactly the greatest defensive forwards either,
He's tied for 5th in the league in points right now (with 2 fewer games played than the player above him). Only Kunitz (who plays with Crosby) has more points as a left winger than Vanek.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:52 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RezChi View Post
I see a ton of people in denial
The only people in denial are the one that refuse to see the player the canucks got in return for Hodgson has just as high a ceiling and filled the greater organizational need then AND now.

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03-08-2013, 11:52 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
He's tied for 5th in the league in points right now (with 2 fewer games played than the player above him). Only Kunitz (who plays with Crosby) has more points as a left winger than Vanek.
And last year he had 61 points in 78 games. Perhaps that line being together has sparked him?

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:53 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And last year he had 61 points in 78 games. Perhaps that line being together has sparked him?
He's the straw that stirs the drink.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:56 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
He's the straw that stirs the drink.
So essentially good players playing together will put up points. Does Hodgson need to be playing with John Scott and Patrick Kaleta for people to respect him? He's exactly the type of offensive center that this team needs right now, and we gave him up. Whether or not he wanted out is moot, he is the type of player this team needs.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:02 PM
  #242
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So essentially good players playing together will put up points. Does Hodgson need to be playing with John Scott and Patrick Kaleta for people to respect him? He's exactly the type of offensive center that this team needs right now, and we gave him up. Whether or not he wanted out is moot, he is the type of player this team needs.
Those are the types of players AV would line him up with on the Canucks.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:03 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
The only people in denial are the one that refuse to see the player the canucks got in return for Hodgson has just as high a ceiling and filled the greater organizational need then AND now.
For sure, assuming Kassian was/is a difference maker then AND now.

Which he's not. Doesn't score, doesn't hit, doesn't play defense.

So unless the "organizational need" was to do nothing for long stretches of the season, I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:03 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
The only people in denial are the one that refuse to see the player the canucks got in return for Hodgson has just as high a ceiling and filled the greater organizational need then AND now.
Yes, they are the only ones in denial.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:09 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
The only people in denial are the one that refuse to see the player the canucks got in return for Hodgson has just as high a ceiling and filled the greater organizational need then AND now.
Right

The Canucks lack centre depth & actual goal scorers when will the goal scoring start?
Hodgson is the better player & the org traded from a position of weakness (centre) for a position in abundance(winger) who does not have an upside as high as Hodgson.

Bad trade

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:14 PM
  #246
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Those are the types of players AV would line him up with on the Canucks.
True story.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:21 PM
  #247
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I always laugh at the implicit assumption that Hodgson would be a good playoff performer. Guess what guys, he has zero goals, one assist and is -2 in 12 playoff games. Sure, he was young and didn't get a ton of minutes but as it stands right how he is a playoff bust and he will have to prove otherwise if he ever makes it there again.

As for trading from a "position of weakness" it wasn't really a weakness at the time of the trade. Having a skill 3rd line C who can't play defensively to save his life makes no sense in an AV system, and there was no chance of Hodgson moving up for anything but an injury. Even if he was getting second line minutes with Kesler out I would be willing to bet his production wouldn't be close to what it is in Buffalo because his wingers here would not be at Vanek's level.

Also, stick Cody on the 4th line and keep shuffling him around with every player on the team and I bet he doesn't have half the points he does right now. I don't expect Kassian to do much the way he's being shuffled around. His defensive game does need to improve but he also needs a chance to play to his strengths. I'm sick of the coaching here.

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03-08-2013, 12:22 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
I know some are sick of this comparison, and the trade being constantly re-hashed. But there's a reason many Canucks fans are hung up on this.

Hodgson was the first prospect to come along in a long time, make the team and provide a genuine dynamic spark. There's a reason so many Canucks fans fell in love with the guy. He offered something we haven't seen in a very long time. Something exciting and new. And a player with legitimate 1st line upside. We haven't seen 1st line offensive upside in that vein since...well the Sedins really. He absolutely has his warts as a player, and there are the daddy issues, etc. But at the end of the day...we had an extremely skilled player who excited the fanbase, gave them hope for the future beyond the Twins, and aside from Gillis' smear campaign after the trade...was looked at as a good Canadian kid, potential future captain material, and someone who produced in spite of a complete lack of trust from AV. He had become something of an 'underdog' in many respects.

And ultimately, Cody Hodgson became a huge fan favourite in a huge hurry. He was adored by many, and largely as a consequence of all this...this trade is forever going to be scrutinized until long after these two players have retired. This is the way trades like this go...if a deal is as shocking as this one was on deadline day...it's because it has huge impact for a franchise. Just like the Neely deal is still constantly brought up to this day.

Basically, the people who act like this trade was nbd and everyone should just get over it and move on...are out to lunch. It was a huge deal. A franchise shaping deal. The sort of move that defines a GMs tenure with an organization. Easily the most volatile move Gillis has ever made...and it's by that sort of measure that he will be judged in the future.
This

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:47 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
People always say this, but this explanation only talks about Kassian's development, not Hodgson's. If Kassian's being compared to these guys, who's Hodgson being compared to?
You're not serious, are you? Maybe because Kassian is a power forward just like all the guys in the comparison? The point is power forwards are notoriously tough to develop but if they make they are extremely valuable - far more so than a 60-80 point soft player that does little else.

Kassian's top end potential is higher than Hodgson's. Hodgson is more likely to reach his top end potential. Bottom line, it was a risky trade and its far too early to conclude if the risk paid off.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:26 PM
  #250
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Right

The Canucks lack centre depth & actual goal scorers when will the goal scoring start?
Hodgson is the better player & the org traded from a position of weakness (centre) for a position in abundance(winger) who does not have an upside as high as Hodgson.

Bad trade
Let's go over it again.

Hodgson was not and is still not a fit in the bottom 6 of most if any teams in the league.

he needs to be on the top 2 lines

in vancouver he was behind and remains behind a Hart winner and a Selke winner.

You do not move a Selke winner to the wing for a rookie/sophmore player with little defensive game.

The organization has ZERO count them ZERO players of Kassian's ilk. ZERO. They had two guys already playing in the role Hodgson could fulfill and those guys are frankly MUCH better players and under long term contracts.

As I mentioned, it's wonderful to play hindsight and it's wonderful to believe that a team can keep sooo much depth that the 4th line is really a first or second line. The problem is that isn't reality. Never has been and never will be. Even on the best of the best. Cody Hodgson this year would be in the exact same situation on the depth chart as he was last year...not good enough to displace Henrik or Kesler and not good enough defensively to be relied on in the bottom 6. You can't simply point to a Kesler injury and say "see I told you so!". That's called having your cake and eating it to and it is again not a reality for NHL organizations.

I don't disagree the team needs another guy at center, but it's on the third line. A guy able to play 5-on-5 without defensive protections. That wasn't and isn't Cody Hodgson, no matter how promising his career may be. Hodgson was redundant piece on the canucks...an offensive center who has little defensive game.

And honestly, you are completely out to lunch if you don't think Kassian has as high an upside as Hodgson. Completely out to lunch. He's actually, all things considered, a better all round player than Hodgson was this time last year (20 games into the season).

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