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Old
03-11-2013, 09:32 AM
  #451
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Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
Of course he was forced into a no win situation, Hodgson's days were numbered here the second AV called him out publicly with the non injury fiasco. Gillis had no choice but to trade him when it became painfully obvious he was never going to be given a chance with the Canuck's.
I've been pro-Hodgson from day one, and still am, (and I would even go so far as saying that he has the right to demand whatever he wants without being villified for it), but it's stupid to blame management for Cody demanding a bigger role in his first year when his limitations completely justified his usage/lack of minutes. The "chance" he was given was totally reasonable.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:00 PM
  #452
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Skill > Big Dumb Power Forwards

The Canucks lost the trade.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:15 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by hockeywoot View Post
Yes. While we cannot take it as a fact, its hardly a stretch to think this.

Seriously people.

Why would MG trade away his prized first pick, his first stamp on the future of his team? Why would he trade him, when he is having a pretty good rookie season? Why would he trade a good talented offensive player, when the team could use some more offense?

It seems unlikely to make trade away this player unless there's a sufficiently good reason to do so. I seriously doubt he just woke up one day and decided to trade Hodgson.

I'm pretty sure Gillis had a good reason. Perhaps he wanted to avoid a future headache (ala Kyle Turris)

Remember coming into last season, there were lots of question marks about Hodgson. Underwhelming in the AHL. Some questions about his transition to the pro game. (outside of the Godgson Fanboy Club of course..)

For all we know, he had been looking to move him sooner, but his value wasn't as high. When his value was at an all time high (thanks to those nice o-zone starts), he moved him for a player he felt would be a good fit for this club's future going forward.
Despite Gillis' outward demeanor, I feel he has a tendency to overreact to situations or needs. I consider the Ballard trade and the Luongo contract to be indicative of this trait.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:35 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by hockeywoot View Post
Yes. While we cannot take it as a fact, its hardly a stretch to think this.

Seriously people.

Why would MG trade away his prized first pick, his first stamp on the future of his team? Why would he trade him, when he is having a pretty good rookie season? Why would he trade a good talented offensive player, when the team could use some more offense?

It seems unlikely to make trade away this player unless there's a sufficiently good reason to do so. I seriously doubt he just woke up one day and decided to trade Hodgson.

I'm pretty sure Gillis had a good reason. Perhaps he wanted to avoid a future headache (ala Kyle Turris)

Remember coming into last season, there were lots of question marks about Hodgson. Underwhelming in the AHL. Some questions about his transition to the pro game. (outside of the Godgson Fanboy Club of course..)

For all we know, he had been looking to move him sooner, but his value wasn't as high. When his value was at an all time high (thanks to those nice o-zone starts), he moved him for a player he felt would be a good fit for this club's future going forward.
I think it's more that he saw the way it was going with AV, knew he was going to give AV one more year if he wasn't fired, and went with the guy he knew he was going to have to live with.

Getting rid of Cody's dad was probably just a bonus. He also got Kassian back, who is a comparable prospect with the same potential upside. Kassian should have also been, on paper, more of an 'AV-type' player.

This whole Cody asked for a trade thing just seems too conspiracy theory to me. It seemed like a calculated move at the time before MG knew that Malhotra and Kesler would be out. At that time we had 4 centers (Hank, Kes, Malhotra, Lappy) plus the two center prospects and Ebbett.

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
I think it's more that he saw the way it was going with AV, knew he was going to give AV one more year if he wasn't fired, and went with the guy he knew he was going to have to live with.

Getting rid of Cody's dad was probably just a bonus. He also got Kassian back, who is a comparable prospect with the same potential upside. Kassian should have also been, on paper, more of an 'AV-type' player.

This whole Cody asked for a trade thing just seems too conspiracy theory to me. It seemed like a calculated move at the time before MG knew that Malhotra and Kesler would be out. At that time we had 4 centers (Hank, Kes, Malhotra, Lappy) plus the two center prospects and Ebbett.
Not sure what you mean. Mike Gillis stated publicly that Hodgson asked to be traded, and when asked about it Hodgson basically refused to answer the question. To me, the conspiracy theory would be that Hodgson didn't ask to be traded and Gillis made the whole thing up (and I don't think that's the case).

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:04 PM
  #456
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Nor a first line center. Hes now 'on pace' for 66 points over 82 games. That is a joke for a first line center playing with quality wingers.

Cody's dad is going to have drop from 6mil to 5.5
Just to point out last season there were only 12 centers who scored 66 points.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

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03-11-2013, 10:26 PM
  #457
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Cody is the better player. Even if he wanted to be dealt the canucks could have used him to get a better return

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03-12-2013, 12:00 AM
  #458
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Not going to go through the entire thread, started hurting mead head and almost forced me to the leafs board.

If we just look at the goals and assists performance, Hodgson will win and on that point there will be no argument. However, Kassian is still developing and we are hoping he becomes like Hartnell in Philly and with Hartnell we know he brings more to the game then just goals and assists

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:27 AM
  #459
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Cody is the better player. Even if he wanted to be dealt the canucks could have used him to get a better return
Can you imagine what we could have gotten get for a Hodgson + Schneider package?

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:37 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Cody is the better player. Even if he wanted to be dealt the canucks could have used him to get a better return
Gillis put him out there for players such as Sutter, Kassian, Clifford etc...

The only taker was Buffalo. LA wouldn't even give Clifford for him.

That's pretty telling of what Hodgsons perception was league wide.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:40 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Gillis put him out there for players such as Sutter, Kassian, Clifford etc...

The only taker was Buffalo. LA wouldn't even give Clifford for him.

That's pretty telling of what Hodgsons perception was league wide.
Not a chance this is a fact.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:42 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by GaryBettman View Post
Skill > Big Dumb Power Forwards

The Canucks lost the trade.
Which is why we didn't trade Hodgson for a big dumb power forward.

We traded him for a big highly skilled power forward.

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Originally Posted by Rydgar View Post
Probably the best post in this whole thread. I'm not even really impressed at what is considered Kassian's upside.
His upside is a top six play-making power forward that can create plays, drive the net, play the body and fight. That's an extremely valuable player if he can make it there.

The vision is there, the size is there, the hands are there. None of those are things anything is disputing, his biggest issue is just consistency, which is something that plagues all prospects, especially power forwards.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:43 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Not a chance this is a fact.
why not?

People are only crying over Hodgson this year because he's putting up points with Vanek/Pominville.

Same they are crying over Graber because he eventually worked it out. Nobody was crying when he was getting waived, Nonis bypassed him and he did nothing in NYI for 1/2 a season.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:47 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Not a chance this is a fact.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html
There's another link to a mar 6 blog there.

It states that Gillis targeted 6 players. I bet they would have rather taken Gudbranson, Sutter or Carlson over Kassian but they were deemed more valuable than Hodgson to their teams.

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:53 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html
There's another link to a mar 6 blog there.

It states that Gillis targeted 6 players. I bet they would have rather taken Gudbranson, Sutter or Carlson over Kassian but they were deemed more valuable than Hodgson to their teams.
My rankings for those six players would be Carlson > Gudbranson = Kassian > Sutter > Clifford

Carlson would obviously be the undisputed number one pick. Huge upside, already playing a big role with the Caps, puts up a lot of points. Given all of that though, his price would definitely be way more than just Hodgson. I'd rank Gudbranson and Kassian roughly the same. Gudbranson is a safer bet and will almost certainly be a top four dman, but Kassian has the higher upside if he reaches his potential. Sutter's upside is a third line checking center. A good one, but he doesn't have the offense to break into the top six. Clifford's upside is almost certainly a bottom six forward. A really good third line player is his tops.

Honestly, Gudbranson and Kassian would really be the only two realistic options for the Canucks. Carlson would be out of their price range, while Clifford and Sutter are both worth significantly less than Hodgson. Then when you consider that that Florida's prospect depth at center is Huberdeau, Grimaldi and Bjugstad, then they have absolutely no need for Hodgson. He's not going to ever jump Huberdeau, so his height on that roster would be a 2nd line center. So why would Florida give up one of their best young dman, for a player in a position where they're super deep at?

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Old
03-12-2013, 12:55 AM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
My rankings for those six players would be Carlson > Gudbranson = Kassian > Sutter > Clifford

Carlson would obviously be the undisputed number one pick. Huge upside, already playing a big role with the Caps, puts up a lot of points. Given all of that though, his price would definitely be way more than just Hodgson. I'd rank Gudbranson and Kassian roughly the same. Gudbranson is a safer bet and will almost certainly be a top four dman, but Kassian has the higher upside if he reaches his potential. Sutter's upside is a third line checking center. A good one, but he doesn't have the offense to break into the top six. Clifford's upside is almost certainly a bottom six forward. A really good third line player is his tops.
I'd have to say Sutter reminds me of another Kesler personally. He's a guy who could still turn into that 2nd line C but not behind Malkin and Crosby.

I'd have taken Sutter over Kass.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:49 AM
  #467
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why not?

People are only crying over Hodgson this year because he's putting up points with Vanek/Pominville.

Same they are crying over Graber because he eventually worked it out. Nobody was crying when he was getting waived, Nonis bypassed him and he did nothing in NYI for 1/2 a season.
People were "crying" the moment Hodgson was traded because anybody with some hockey IQ could see that we were trading away a very talented prospect that can put up numbers for a big unknown. This year Hodgson has continued to progress as expected and Kassian has, not surprisingly, remained a big unknown.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:07 AM
  #468
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Not sure what you mean. Mike Gillis stated publicly that Hodgson asked to be traded, and when asked about it Hodgson basically refused to answer the question. To me, the conspiracy theory would be that Hodgson didn't ask to be traded and Gillis made the whole thing up (and I don't think that's the case).
Bang on.

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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Cody is the better player. Even if he wanted to be dealt the canucks could have used him to get a better return
I guess you don't understand how valuable complete package PWF's are.

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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
I'd have to say Sutter reminds me of another Kesler personally. He's a guy who could still turn into that 2nd line C but not behind Malkin and Crosby.

I'd have taken Sutter over Kass.
I wouldn't have.

Sutter is further along and a great 2nd or 3rd line center, but I don't think he has Kesler upside (not as fast or as good offensively) He will be a two-way 2nd liner, and I think Kassian has the potential to be a very good 2nd line PWF and possibly a borderline 1st line PWF.

Even as a agood 2nd line PWF, that PWF package is worth more than a 2-way center like Sutter.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:13 AM
  #469
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The thing that really puzzles me is that Van traded away the better Defensemen in the trade as well.

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03-12-2013, 04:06 AM
  #470
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The thing that really puzzles me is that Van traded away the better Defensemen in the trade as well.
Sulzer had so far been a career depth guy at the time, and he's still really just a bottom pairing D for the most part. Hindsight's 20/20, but when you have the opportunity to trade a depth defenseman for a younger defensive prospect with tons of offensive upside. You make that trade.

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03-12-2013, 04:15 AM
  #471
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
The thing that really puzzles me is that Van traded away the better Defensemen in the trade as well.
the puzzling part was not that they gave away sulzer but that they saw something in gragnani...not great pro scouting

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03-12-2013, 04:18 AM
  #472
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the puzzling part was not that they gave away sulzer but that they saw something in gragnani...not great pro scouting
The real puzzling part is that they kept playing him to get him to RFA status, then let him walk...

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:21 AM
  #473
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Sulzer had so far been a career depth guy at the time, and he's still really just a bottom pairing D for the most part. Hindsight's 20/20, but when you have the opportunity to trade a depth defenseman for a younger defensive prospect with tons of offensive upside. You make that trade.
Upside? Really? I did not get that impression. Isn't he playing on Carolina's minor league team?

Regardless. I suppose with Vancouver's D core being what it was it really didnt matter. Sulzer seemed to work out in Buffalo pretty well.

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:21 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
The real puzzling part is that they kept playing him to get him to RFA status, then let him walk...
And then sign Barker.

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:23 AM
  #475
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And then sign Barker.
I get that though. Barker has alot of potential when he was drafted. It was a low risk high reward scenario. There was a chance that be could of all of a sudden got it and become a solid member of the Canucks.

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