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2011 Draft, Morrow/Saad

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Old
03-07-2013, 10:45 AM
  #1
sauce66871
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2011 Draft, Morrow/Saad

I was watching the Chicago Blackhawks game last night, and probably like other yinzers, enjoy seeing Brandon Saad play.

When he was still on the draft board in 2011, and the Pens took PMD, Joe Morrow - who will probably turn out to be a decent defenseman - I can't help but wonder if the thought crossed Pens brass' minds to select Saad instead.

He is playing on the top line, top power play and just looking like a great player. Did Pittsburgh miss on that pick? A Pittsburgh kid playing in his hometown? I would imagine the pressure would be greater for him to perform, but still watching the draft on TV, I was hoping that they would take Saad.

Your thoughts?

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03-07-2013, 10:51 AM
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Zatch88
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Yep Saad is looking like a great player and also benefits from playing on an amazing team, however its probably a little too early to compare the two players in my opinion.

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03-07-2013, 10:53 AM
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Darth Vitale
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Let the angst and hand-wringing begin.

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03-07-2013, 10:54 AM
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Kovifan27
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Do you think Saad would have been given a chance on the top line here?

For all we know Ray told Dan hey not many good trades out there w/o gutting the farm. So move up Bennet and pray he works.

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03-07-2013, 10:54 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Once people see Morrow, especially what he will do for the PP, this topic won't be brought up again.

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03-07-2013, 10:55 AM
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alcanalz
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I'm sure they thought about it, like they thought about taking many other players too. In the end, they think that Morrow will end up being better and more valuable. It's way, way, way too early to decide who is right and wrong.

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03-07-2013, 10:58 AM
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Darth Vitale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Once people see Morrow, especially what he will do for the PP, this topic won't be brought up again.
I'm inclined to agree. Anything can happen, but he's by far the player I'm most excited to see get a shot at regular minutes on the big team. I get the sense he's one of those players that will fit in better at the NHL level than AHL level, that the speed of the game won't bother him. More so than Bennett even.

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03-07-2013, 11:00 AM
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Bennett Brauer
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Hindsight is 20/20, here is my theory.

Ray Shero drafts Beau Bennett 20th overall in 2010, 8 months later he trades young PMD Alex Goligoski for a talented young winger, James Neal.

At the 2011 draft, Saad was a questionable 1st round pick. Not that it matters much, but according to Bob MacKenzie (I think?) there was a scroll on the right side of the screen that said "Bob's best available" at 23rd overall. At the top was Joe Morrow, then it was Brandon Saad at 24.

We took Morrow at 23, and Saad dropped 20 slots.

While Saad is doing well, I think since he drafed a winger and traded a PMD for a winger, Ray Shero went with a PMD (who was considered BPA at the time) with the 23rd pick.

Like I said, Hindsight is 20/20, at that time he didn't know Saad would be playing well right now, or that he would have traded Staal for Dumoulin and the 8th overall pick, select Derrick Pouliot and have Maatta fall to him at 22.

I wanted them to take Saad also, but Morrow is a good prospect to have.

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03-07-2013, 11:06 AM
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sauce66871
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Good stuff. It is early I agree, but seeing how he plays with Toews, and to me Toews plays a complete game, much like Crosby, it just added to the fact he was from Pittsburgh and all that stuff. Just had me wondering, what if.

Then again, like you guys said, would he of even gotten a shot at the NHL here, like he's having in Chicago. All in all, best of luck to Morrow to prove me wrong.

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03-07-2013, 11:08 AM
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What are you gonna do, no one-not even first overalls sometimes- is a sure thing in the draft.

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03-07-2013, 11:10 AM
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HA! Coulda had 2/3rds of their top line, actually.

Oh well. Morrow looks like a good one, too.

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03-07-2013, 11:18 AM
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Harv
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I'm glad we didn't draft Saad just for the fact we don't have to hear Steigy go nuts over him being a ''Pittsburgh Kid'' everytime he touches the puck.

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03-07-2013, 11:25 AM
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SomeDude
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I was livid when we passed on Saad, but Morrow seems to be working out fine. Plus, there's no way Saad would have been given the opportunity here that he has in Chicago. Good for him to get drafted by a team that knows how to develop skilled forwards.

Still can't believe he fell out of the 1st round. I watched the 2nd round online hoping every pick that the Pens would trade up to get him. Just goes to show how damaging it can be if someone starts a rumor that a prospect is lazy.

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03-07-2013, 12:33 PM
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I'm kind of tired the whole meh he wouldn't have had an opportunity to play here. Everyone complained that Tangradi was never given a fair shot but the guy is a joke. He won't be anything more than a 4th line grinder if he even learns how to play physical.

Saad would have been the better pick for this team now, but as others stated, Shero didn't know he'd start hoarding dmen at that particular time. Looking back it looks horrible because we have 1 NHL ready winger now and how many dmen?

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03-07-2013, 12:39 PM
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Captain Hook
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We could always use another winger but Morrow also fills a huge need for this team with his PP ability.

What skilled forwards have we failed to develop, Tangradi? Chicago has had their own struggling skilled forwards over the years like Beach, Skille etc. They don't all pan out. Saad has earned more time because he's played well. I think Bennett will do the same here.

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03-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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Jaded-Fan
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As one who screams each year when Shero devotes most of his top draft picks to defensemen I can not complain too much as they all seem to be turning out. How many late firsts and seconds become anything of value? Shero has had amazing success at the bottom of the draft in picking prospects that are better than their draft position, and having virtually no busts.

And I say that having screamed for them to draft Saad specifically at the time. We all know that Shero is almost always going to go for the defenseman, and specifically mostly the PMD. At least he is good at drafting quality ones.

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03-07-2013, 12:53 PM
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TorstenFrings
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I would love to have Saad, no debate, but he hasn't knocked my socks off enough to lament the Morrow pick.
At times here you'd think he would have been the answer to all our problems and setting the league on fire, when actually I give Bennett a better than even chance to be at least as good by the time the season comes to a close. He is a good rookie, not more.

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03-07-2013, 01:10 PM
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jmelm
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As some have said, hindsight is 20/20. Brandon Saad was project to be a top-5/top-8 pick before the season began, but played himself WAY down the prospect rankings on every teams' lists. Exhibit A: Chicago had 2 picks in the first round and 2 picks in the second round, and they took 3 players before they selected Saad. When you have that many picks, you can take a chance on a player, and they did that. But it also shows you where they had him ranked on their own list.

But if you want to talk about luck (which that was) or making shrewd decisions: let's remember that we were able to draft Scott Harrington in the 2nd round that same year. Now, the way each of these guys are playing, it's very easy to say that both Saad and Harrington would be top-15 or, at worst, top-20 picks if that draft were to be re-done today.

Sure, Saad would look great in our prospect pool right now, but so would Alex Khokhlachev, Ty Rattie, Brett Ritchie, Nicklas Jensen, Rickard Rakell, Mario Lucia and others. But I really can't complain that with having only 2 picks in the 1st two rounds (and no 3rd or 4th rounders to use to trade up or acquire additional picks, or to draft a guy like Lucia who was still there in the 3rd round), I really can't complain that we ended up with Joe Morrow and Scott Harrington. (and I think Archibald can be a really good player for us, as well). We could have done much worse, trust me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I'm kind of tired the whole meh he wouldn't have had an opportunity to play here. Everyone complained that Tangradi was never given a fair shot but the guy is a joke. He won't be anything more than a 4th line grinder if he even learns how to play physical.

Saad would have been the better pick for this team now, but as others stated, Shero didn't know he'd start hoarding dmen at that particular time. Looking back it looks horrible because we have 1 NHL ready winger now and how many dmen?

I agree with everything you said, except your last sentance. I'm sure if we had as many picks as Chicago did, we would have taken a flier on a guy like Saad (falling) or Ritchie (injury) in that draft. At the same time, Shero also didn't know that he would have to trade Jordan Staal, and be getting the kind of players we did in return or select Pouliot like we did (and it's not like the Canes had a top-tier forward prospect who was a better part of the package than Dumoulin).

It's inevitable that we will parlay top-young Dmen prospects, or even existing players like Brooks or Nisky at the appropriate time, for quality forward players. If we didn't have Harrington/Morrow/Pouliot/Maatta/Dumoulin coming in over the last 20 months, we wouldn't be able to make those kind of moves.

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03-07-2013, 02:48 PM
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Bennett Brauer
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I would like to add to my post about Shero's acquisitions.

He drafted Beau Bennett in the 1st round in 2010, and traded Goligoski for James Neal.

In June, 2011. Ray Shero walked into the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, MN with only 1 solid D prospect, and that is Simon Despres.

After drafting a RW in the 1st and 3rd round in 2010, and acquiring one in 2011 at the expense of a PMD, does anyone blame Shero for going D over forward?

I liked Saad and at the time wanted him over any other prospect, now I'm glad we picked Morrow, and not so much because I'm a homer and I think Shero can do no wrong , but because we needed a D prospect and he was considered BPA at the time.

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03-07-2013, 03:00 PM
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I wanted Saad too but didnt he go midway in 2n rd? Drafting him in first may have been a reach

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03-07-2013, 03:02 PM
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Darth Vitale
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03-07-2013, 03:45 PM
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In all fairness, Saad dropped past everyone in round 1. Going into his draft year he was listed as a top 5 pick, but many questions were arising about his conditioning and work ethic. He really rededicated himself after he fell out of the first round, and picked his work ethic back up. Getting passed up may have been the best thing for his career.

Edit: Sorry, I see jmelm already noted this.

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03-07-2013, 03:47 PM
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Yeah, I think slipping that much in the draft was a bit of a wake up call for Saad.

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03-07-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Yeah, I think slipping that much in the draft was a bit of a wake up call for Saad.
Agreed.

When you think about Shero's style, I can't say it surprises me too much to see him pass up a winger in favor of a defenseman.

It's not the first time he's done such a thing and it won't be his last. It's just kind of his style to stockpile massive amounts of d-men prospects.

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03-07-2013, 03:56 PM
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jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I would like to add to my post about Shero's acquisitions.

He drafted Beau Bennett in the 1st round in 2010, and traded Goligoski for James Neal.

In June, 2011. Ray Shero walked into the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, MN with only 1 solid D prospect, and that is Simon Despres.

After drafting a RW in the 1st and 3rd round in 2010, and acquiring one in 2011 at the expense of a PMD, does anyone blame Shero for going D over forward?

I liked Saad and at the time wanted him over any other prospect, now I'm glad we picked Morrow, and not so much because I'm a homer and I think Shero can do no wrong , but because we needed a D prospect and he was considered BPA at the time.
A good post and very true. And the other thing is that things often go in a cyclical manner. As I've said before, unless we end up trading some D prospects for forwards (i.e. picking up and Iginla, Setoguchi, Stewart, etc.), I see us going VERY forward-heavy in this draft, just like we did in 2010. Last year, when it was our 22nd pick, there were no really elite forwards left when we selected Maatta. (I would have preferred to draft Subban for Goaltending depth, but it's hard to fault that pick). Shero & Co. obviously didn't see guys like Henrik Samuelsson, Stefan Matteau or Tanner Pearson as difference-makers relative to Maatta (though they did draft Murray/Maguire in goal, and Blueger & Sundqvist at forward, at least showing they recognized the need for depth).


We can polish Chicago's knob, and I do think they have been exemplary in asset management, but although they're thrilled with their roster and young forwards, I'm sure they are also envious of our depth on the blueline. It goes both ways.


With so many great forwards available this year -- either on the trade market and/or the 1st & 2nd rounds of the draft -- expect the Penguins to signifcantly add to their organization depth at forward over the coming months.

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