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2011 Draft, Morrow/Saad

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Old
03-07-2013, 04:19 PM
  #26
Adams27
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I'm shocked saad plays over Kane on the top pp

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03-07-2013, 04:23 PM
  #27
stefanh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YinzerpenguiN View Post
I'm shocked saad plays over Kane on the top pp
He doesnt they role 2 units about as dangerous

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03-07-2013, 04:40 PM
  #28
Luigi Lemieux
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Saad's a nice player but he doesn't have Morrow's upside. Morrow's going to be awesome, don't regret the pick one bit.

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03-07-2013, 04:59 PM
  #29
eXile59
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I think in the end they will both be impact players. Shero even said during the draft he thought Saad was going to be a good player. I guess it just came down to Shero's love od D-men.

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03-07-2013, 05:08 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Ray Shero drafts Beau Bennett 20th overall in 2010, 8 months later he trades young PMD Alex Goligoski for a talented young winger, James Neal.

While Saad is doing well, I think since he drafed a winger and traded a PMD for a winger, Ray Shero went with a PMD (who was considered BPA at the time) with the 23rd pick.
This is one of the reasons GMs rarely draft by position (of needs). Those needs change over time. You take the BPA, and try to fill needs as they arise. But needs can change between when the player is drafted and 3-5 years later when they're ready to play in the NHL.

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03-07-2013, 05:28 PM
  #31
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I'm kind of tired the whole meh he wouldn't have had an opportunity to play here. Everyone complained that Tangradi was never given a fair shot but the guy is a joke. He won't be anything more than a 4th line grinder if he even learns how to play physical.

Saad would have been the better pick for this team now, but as others stated, Shero didn't know he'd start hoarding dmen at that particular time. Looking back it looks horrible because we have 1 NHL ready winger now and how many dmen?
Honestly, up until this year, Tangradi wasn't given that chance until this year.

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03-07-2013, 05:54 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Honestly, up until this year, Tangradi wasn't given that chance until this year.
True but maybe the Pens, who see way more of him than we do, knew he just wasn't that good so getting him in the lineup just wasn't a priority to them.

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03-07-2013, 06:02 PM
  #33
Honour Over Glory
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I think Saad would have been in the AHL a little longer if he was with the Pens, maybe end up being a little more polished, etc. But yeah, he went in the 2nd round, if Ray really wanted him, he would have moved up in the 2nd round to get him. He went 43rd overall, Pens later selected Scott Harrington instead in the 2nd, keeping their pick where it was 11 spots later.

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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Joe says: "Don't second guess, or I'll shatter your skulls with a slapshot!"

Lol.

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03-07-2013, 06:04 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Honestly, up until this year, Tangradi wasn't given that chance until this year.
Watching him on the Jets, he just isn't that good and I was a big Tangradi defender here. I think he needs to re-evaluate the way he plays the game. Whatever he is doing now is definitely not working. I think he's confused as to what the hell kind of player he is supposed to be. I don't know if the Jets can even send him down anymore without him being claimed on waivers so they gotta keep him up and give him a chance.

Maybe a full camp in Winnipeg next year might make him adjust better, but yeah, I can now see why Dan played him the way he did.

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03-07-2013, 06:31 PM
  #35
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Saad has only recently been given power play time, as Q experiments in what is considered a weakness for the Hawks. Their PP is middle of the pack, which is actually an improvement over the last couple seasons. The two PP units pretty much split the time so having Kane in the second group is not really significant.

Saad has also earned PK time and is proving to be pretty good at it. His hockey IQ and anticipation in all three zones is very good. He's leading all rookies in takeaways and his 2-way game is really evident.

He's got only 9 points on the season (4g/5a), but 5 points have come in the last 6 games. As weird as this sounds, he was kind of a victim of bad puck luck in the first few weeks of the season because Toews and Hossa simply whiffed or shanked at least 8 or 10 beauty setups that Saad gave them.

I guess consistency is going to be the thing for Saad because he certainly has top-6 power forward ability. If he keeps up this level of play he's going to be a monster player in the not too distant future. If he gets too comfortable and slacks off - then he won't. It's all on him.

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03-07-2013, 07:07 PM
  #36
Ogrezilla
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Diamond Joe Morrow is country strong.

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03-07-2013, 08:55 PM
  #37
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Chicago should thank us, we could've taken Saad and Toews

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03-07-2013, 09:15 PM
  #38
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Honestly...I'm not a huge fan of Saad. I think he's a perimeter player far too often, and doesn't play up to his size.

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03-07-2013, 09:29 PM
  #39
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I was definitely pulling for Saad. I wanted a winger badly and thought he had enormous potential. He's got a ton of talent and is willing to play a two-way game which would have been a great match for this team. He was also touted as one of the most physically developed prospects in the draft, which would have fit right into our "win now" mindset. The fact that he has the strong and noble blood of a Gibsonian was another major plus.

With that said, I couldn't be more excited about Morrow. That shot is absolutely lethal, his skating is crisp, and from what I understand he's not afraid of dishing out a hit. I'm definitely excited to see him make the jump to the NHL in within the next couple of years. I'd still prefer Saad over him but I could easily look foolish down the road for saying that.

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03-07-2013, 11:06 PM
  #40
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Ok. I've finally calmed down enough after the game to look at my computer....Thanks for the laugh, Ogrezilla.


One other thing that people have to remember when comparing prospects from a given draft is the late birthday, which is funnily applicable to both Saad and Morrow, but for different reasons. Morrow wasn't even on the radar as a potential 1st round pick the year before he was drafted, yet Saad was projected to go in the top-5. Morrow had an up-year, and rocketed (like his country-strong slap shot) up the rankings into the 1st round; and Saad dropped to the 2nd. So while both are "late birthdays", Morrow was still a late bloomer, whereas Saad was a guy who looked somewhat disinterested at times at the junior level.


But the morale of the story is this: while the late birthday issue of one player vs. another isn't always a factor, we need not look any further than Malkin vs. Ovechkin; and even if there wasn't an age difference it's still a good analogy. Ovie was much more developed and mature than Malkin was, and looked that way when he won the Calder trophy in the NHL, while Geno was back in Russia. But which player would you rather have on your team right now? ??? Exactly.


The fact of the matter is Saad is playing in the NHL, in part due to his stage of development based on his age. Morrow isn't even in the NHL yet, and is just getting adjusted to the pro game. Right now, it's comparing apples to organges. And in the same way that Malkin as an elite centre is a more valuable asset than Ovie as an elite winger, due to the importance of the position, a high-end Dman would still be worth more than a high-end winger of equal quality. And perhaps like how Malkin's vs Ovechkin's character and the fire to compete at the highest level hasn't remained equal as each of them has matured, Morrow's character may also remain more consistent over the long haul. So ask me in 5 years which player I would rather have. I have a strong feeling that my answer at that time will be Diamond Joe.


(p.s. Chi Chi, is it possible to have two Diamond Joes? )

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03-08-2013, 05:56 AM
  #41
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You cannot compare a winger to a defenseman simply because winger is the easiest position to jump levels of hockey quickly. We've seen that with Bennett. He played pretty much no college hockey, a quarter of an AHL season, and here he is.

Defense is the hardest position to learn, and when you're playing in a unique system like the one DB employees, it's going to take even longer for young defensemen to develop.

I also think at the Jr. level, top notch defensemen like Morrow, Pouliot, Harrington, and Maatta will have a harder time adjusting because they were used to play 30 mins a night, carrying every puck, having the puck go through them, and be seriously relied upon to play huge mins. It's easier to play a game that way where you're up every other shift. It will be a huge change where they won't be getting their 30 mins a night in the pro ranks any time soon, and they will have to find a way to keep their focus and stay sharp without playing, which isn't the easiest of tasks.

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03-08-2013, 01:00 PM
  #42
jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
You cannot compare a winger to a defenseman simply because winger is the easiest position to jump levels of hockey quickly. We've seen that with Bennett. He played pretty much no college hockey, a quarter of an AHL season, and here he is.

Defense is the hardest position to learn, and when you're playing in a unique system like the one DB employees, it's going to take even longer for young defensemen to develop.

I also think at the Jr. level, top notch defensemen like Morrow, Pouliot, Harrington, and Maatta will have a harder time adjusting because they were used to play 30 mins a night, carrying every puck, having the puck go through them, and be seriously relied upon to play huge mins. It's easier to play a game that way where you're up every other shift. It will be a huge change where they won't be getting their 30 mins a night in the pro ranks any time soon, and they will have to find a way to keep their focus and stay sharp without playing, which isn't the easiest of tasks.

Good point and very true in the case with Saad. Saad was a scoring winger in junior, and he is playing the role of a scoring winger in the pros. This is vastly different to Dmen who may have to play outside of their normal roles to learn the game and become good, all-around players. All Saad has to do is try to score goals and not totally suck defensively/physically. Dmen, and particularly the way we develop & utilitize them, HAVE TO be complete players.

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:04 PM
  #43
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Honestly...I'm not a huge fan of Saad. I think he's a perimeter player far too often, and doesn't play up to his size.
This was exactly my opinion of Saad in junior, and one of the reasons I wasn't interested in the Pens taking him.

Has he improved in this area as a pro? I'm honestly curious.

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Honestly, up until this year, Tangradi wasn't given that chance until this year.
Didn't he get 5 or 6 games with Malkin and Talbot to start the '11 season? I don't like Tangradi at all but he might fit in somewhere else though.

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:05 PM
  #45
PensBandwagonerNo272
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Hindsight is always 20/20.

That said, I'd rather have Morrow anyway. Top pairing dman eventually, I think.

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03-08-2013, 07:07 PM
  #46
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why are people mentioning hindsight about these kids?

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