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Old
03-11-2013, 12:33 PM
  #376
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It can not be said any better. GREAT POST
Yes great post. Caron had 8 points in 4 NHL games and 7 in 63 others. But let's look at the 4 before he disappeared back to the AHL.

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03-11-2013, 12:34 PM
  #377
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We'll see,most players with 15 points in 67 NHL games wash out, and mini streaks of production are just as common. He was non productive in the AHL this year til he just put together points in 6 of 10 games in the AHL. He's more likely to flounder as flourish.
I think that name's taken.

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03-11-2013, 12:36 PM
  #378
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We'll see,most players with 15 points in 67 NHL games wash out, and mini streaks of production are just as common. He was non productive in the AHL this year til he just put together points in 6 of 10 games in the AHL. He's more likely to flounder as flourish.
He did all that in the NHL by the age of 22. How quickly do you think players with 8 points in 51 games wash out? Especially when the majority of that happens well after the age of 22.

Looking at our other 3rd liners.

Kelly hadn't even made the NHL at age 22 and didn't blow the doors off the AHL. Peverley was in the ECHL at age 22.

So, I don't think Caron's 22 pts in the NHL prior to turning 22 is indicative of his washing out.

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03-11-2013, 12:50 PM
  #379
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Yes great post. Caron had 8 points in 4 NHL games and 7 in 63 others. But let's look at the 4 before he disappeared back to the AHL.
I am not calling Caron a star, simply a better choice than Bourque

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03-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #380
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Yes great post. Caron had 8 points in 4 NHL games and 7 in 63 others. But let's look at the 4 before he disappeared back to the AHL.
No, he had 15 in the 63 others. Which again, is double Chris Bourque's career production at the NHL level. All before the age of 22.

People are dwelling on this stretch in the AHL before Caron got injured, we have zero idea if he was playing with an injury, being told to work on certain aspects of his game above others, had crappy AHL linemates, etc. etc.

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03-11-2013, 01:16 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
No, he had 15 in the 63 others. Which again, is double Chris Bourque's career production at the NHL level. All before the age of 22.

People are dwelling on this stretch in the AHL before Caron got injured, we have zero idea if he was playing with an injury, being told to work on certain aspects of his game above others, had crappy AHL linemates, etc. etc.
Once again,doubling Chris Bourque's production is a flawed argument. Neither produced well and they didn't play with the same players.

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03-11-2013, 01:18 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
He did all that in the NHL by the age of 22. How quickly do you think players with 8 points in 51 games wash out? Especially when the majority of that happens well after the age of 22.

Looking at our other 3rd liners.

Kelly hadn't even made the NHL at age 22 and didn't blow the doors off the AHL. Peverley was in the ECHL at age 22.

So, I don't think Caron's 22 pts in the NHL prior to turning 22 is indicative of his washing out.
It's also not a marker for a great career.

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03-11-2013, 01:24 PM
  #383
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It's also not a marker for a great career.
He just needs to be good.

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03-11-2013, 01:31 PM
  #384
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It's also not a marker for a great career.
He has a better chance at one than the player he's replacing, and he's a better fit for his linemates than the player he's replacing.

This was a move that had to be made regardless of the chances of him being great. And expecting a player drafted 25th overall to be "great" is probably not the best idea.

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03-11-2013, 05:10 PM
  #385
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He has a better chance at one than the player he's replacing, and he's a better fit for his linemates than the player he's replacing.

This was a move that had to be made regardless of the chances of him being great. And expecting a player drafted 25th overall to be "great" is probably not the best idea.
50% of 1st round draft picks have 500+ game careers ranging from mediocre to elite,I get it. Most are a couple of years in by 22 never mind 27. Blaming Bourque for the failure of the third liner exonerates Kelly and Peverley who have both stunk. It was only going to be a matter of time that they returned to their career mediocre offensive production. Intriguing is that the Bs are pursuing Soderberg so hard.

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03-11-2013, 05:46 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by BNHL View Post
50% of 1st round draft picks have 500+ game careers ranging from mediocre to elite,I get it. Most are a couple of years in by 22 never mind 27. Blaming Bourque for the failure of the third liner exonerates Kelly and Peverley who have both stunk. It was only going to be a matter of time that they returned to their career mediocre offensive production. Intriguing is that the Bs are pursuing Soderberg so hard.
I think the Bruins were always pursuing Soderberg, they were just waiting for him to be willing to come over.

I think we'll see something from Caron, great fit for what that line tries to do. It's not to "blame" Bourque so to speak, he's just not an NHL player, not skilled enough for a top 6 role, not physical enough to win the board battles needed from the bottom 6.

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03-11-2013, 09:59 PM
  #387
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I think the Bruins were always pursuing Soderberg, they were just waiting for him to be willing to come over.

I think we'll see something from Caron, great fit for what that line tries to do. It's not to "blame" Bourque so to speak, he's just not an NHL player, not skilled enough for a top 6 role, not physical enough to win the board battles needed from the bottom 6.
That's where we disagree,I think Bourque is a top 6 type player but has played with bottom 6 forwards on very strong teams where there is no top 6 spot. As for Caron,he's impressed me once but then failed at en even lower level for over a year til 2 weeks ago. I have no faith he'll contribute beyond the immediate.

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03-11-2013, 10:28 PM
  #388
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That's where we disagree,I think Bourque is a top 6 type player but has played with bottom 6 forwards on very strong teams where there is no top 6 spot. As for Caron,he's impressed me once but then failed at en even lower level for over a year til 2 weeks ago. I have no faith he'll contribute beyond the immediate.
Hilarious, two guys who have continually produced at the NHL level apparently dragged down a guy who has done nothing whatsoever. He claired waivers so literally 30 teams disagree that he's a top 6 forward.

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03-11-2013, 11:06 PM
  #389
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Hilarious, two guys who have continually produced at the NHL level apparently dragged down a guy who has done nothing whatsoever. He claired waivers so literally 30 teams disagree that he's a top 6 forward.
Just one of those things,noone said they dragged him down,noone. They just weren't playing well period.If they're blaming Bourque then they should look in the mirror. Chris Bourque is not a bottom 6 grinding type of player,he doesn't have the stature or the attitude. He's a skill type player that fits on a second line where openings are rare. 30 teams passed on Bourque because they realize he's not a bottom 6 player,he'll never fit that role. Now who's got an opening for a second line winger?

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03-11-2013, 11:39 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by BNHL View Post
Just one of those things,noone said they dragged him down,noone. They just weren't playing well period.If they're blaming Bourque then they should look in the mirror. Chris Bourque is not a bottom 6 grinding type of player,he doesn't have the stature or the attitude. He's a skill type player that fits on a second line where openings are rare. 30 teams passed on Bourque because they realize he's not a bottom 6 player,he'll never fit that role. Now who's got an opening for a second line winger?
Lugano

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03-12-2013, 01:06 AM
  #391
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Lugano
Lugano? Winger for Metropolit? Linkoping will have a first line center opening soon.

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03-12-2013, 01:40 AM
  #392
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Lugano

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03-12-2013, 06:03 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Hilarious, two guys who have continually produced at the NHL level apparently dragged down a guy who has done nothing whatsoever. He claired waivers so literally 30 teams disagree that he's a top 6 forward.
It is worth considering that the last two guys who've been on that line have taken off since leaving.

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03-12-2013, 06:07 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Hilarious, two guys who have continually produced at the NHL level apparently dragged down a guy who has done nothing whatsoever. He claired waivers so literally 30 teams disagree that he's a top 6 forward.
Not so sure we should pin it all on Bourque- look at what Ryder and pouliot have been able to produce since they got off that line.

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03-12-2013, 07:01 AM
  #395
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Not so sure we should pin it all on Bourque- look at what Ryder and pouliot have been able to produce since they got off that line.
Ryder's numbers are also outshooting what he produced with Krejci and Wheeler. So it likely has more to do with system than linemates, also both are shooting above their career percentages, so regression is probable. Wheeler's numbers took off in Winnipeg, and he never played with Kelly or Pevs.

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03-12-2013, 07:27 AM
  #396
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How was Caron last night?

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03-12-2013, 08:11 AM
  #397
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Not so sure we should pin it all on Bourque- look at what Ryder and pouliot have been able to produce since they got off that line.
Look at what Pouliot did before he got on that line. if anything Kelly taught him what it takes to compete on a nightly basis at the NHL level

Bourque is more of a top 6 player than a grinder, but guess what, he isn't skilled enough to be a top 6 guy at the NHL level. There are reasons why he hasn't gotten the chance to ride alongside skilled NHL players, because he has NO finish. Much like Paille, but Paille was able to transform his game into being an exceptionally valuable defensive player.

I know some people like to compare Bourque and Peverly, but peverly flashed real offensive ability every chance he got at the NHL level before he stuck

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03-12-2013, 08:23 AM
  #398
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How was Caron last night?
Pretty invisible. Which I suppose isn't necessarily a bad thing

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03-12-2013, 09:24 AM
  #399
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only had 8 minutes of ice time, which is pretty tough to make yourself "visible" first shift had a horrible backhand pass right to the center of the blue line, and a ottawa defenseman.. but the rest of the game he played like he should.. tough on the wall, big body getting in the way of the opposite team.. had a sneaky wrister towards the end of the game .. but hard to get going when you only get 8 mins... im still a backer of his but i had kind of forgotten how slow footed he looks sometimes

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03-12-2013, 09:27 AM
  #400
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How was Caron last night?
He didn't get any PP time and wasn't in the shootout

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