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Worst Coaches/GMs in NHL history?

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Old
03-09-2013, 11:52 PM
  #76
RabbinsDuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
I like that your response to "Bowman was a mediocre GM" is to cite his list of coaching achievements like everybody in this thread doesn't already know them.

Bowman was absolutely a mediocre GM in Buffalo, even if he was the same coach he was everywhere else, and it had nothing to do with the state of the organization. Giving him control to move players he was beefing with (which I'm sure you know meant anybody at anytime) meant a lot of shortsighted moves, and he could never put together that franchise-redifining blockbuster no matter how hard he tried. He wanted to move up in the Stevens/Housely draft for example, but an in-the-red Capitals team decided to hold onto their pick.
No question Bowman was a mediocre GM at best - so he really does not belong in this conversation - but if given free reign it seems like he would have shipped off any player arriving to practice 5 minutes late. The best GMs have the the virtue of patience... Scotty Bowman severely lacked that.

Don't get me wrong though - I'd take 30 years of Bowman as GM over 2 years of Ned Harkness again.

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03-09-2013, 11:54 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Milbury's trade of Luongo for Dipietro made very little sense at that time. It looks 100x worse now. But even at that time he had the best young goalie in the game. I remember thinking that with a little luck Luongo could be in the mix for the 2002 Olympics at that time (he had to wait for the 2004 World Cup). What in the world was he thinking?
The only thing that I can possibly think of is that Dipietro was described as having superlative puckhandling ability, to the point that he'd immediately be one of the two the best in the league as soon as he made his debut (alongside Brodeur). It's not outside the realm of possibility that Milbury (who cycled through goalies to an extent rivaled only by the Flyers) may have simply narrowed the Devils' effectiveness at that time down to Brodeur's ability to generate transition.

It's not easy to think like a moron, but this is about the only thing I can think of that would explain why he'd dump Luongo (universally recognized as a franchise goalie prospect, on the verge of stepping in full-time) for someone who was three years behind the development curve.

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03-10-2013, 01:41 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
.... It's not easy to think like a moron, but this is about the only thing I can think of that would explain why he'd dump Luongo (universally recognized as a franchise goalie prospect, on the verge of stepping in full-time) for someone who was three years behind the development curve.
Really? Im told I do so fairly frequently, but I digress.... Its possible, Milbury could well have looked at his neighbouring rival, bought into the scouting reports, thought he had another Brodeur in the making, spends his 1st pick on DiPietro after 3 years earlier selecting Louie 4th overall (highest pick ever for a goalie at that time), off-loading Luongo & Jokinen to Florida for... Parrish & Kvasha? Right on. Then, a year almost to "Daft Day" sends Chara & Muckalt along with the #2 pick (the Sens grabbing Spezza with it) for Yashin, who he signs to a 10yr $87.5M Contract.

Milburys soon gone, replaced by fairly bright bulb Smith, he lasts all of 41 games, Wang replacing him with Michelin Man Garth Snow, signing DiPietro to that completely insane Contract. You have 3 Morons, or 3 Stooges involved here really, Milbury, Snow & Wang. Why the former ever employed for his "expert analysis" in-studio, the broadcast booth, I have no idea. Stupid is as stupid does, and I personally dont buy boxes of chocolates without knowing whats inside, not real big on surprises that way. Cant be running a hockey club like that, sourcing talent. Ya its a bit of a crap shoot, the Draft, but when your already holding an ace in Luongo, not to mention all of the rest of his moves? Im thinkin full blown Moron.

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03-10-2013, 03:04 AM
  #79
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Off the top of my head, Waddell for GM and Phil Watson for coach.

There have probably been worse, but with some sort of minimum longevity standard, these have to be the guys.

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03-10-2013, 03:13 AM
  #80
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Off the top of my head the lamest GM in the last three decades of hockey viewing for me has been Mike Milbury (though I like him more as a tv commentator);

the most diappointing coach has been Wayne Gretzky, who couldn't break a five hundred winning record even, a huge let down; the worst coach though.... several short-term candidates

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Old
03-10-2013, 03:29 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Off the top of my head, Waddell for GM and Phil Watson for coach.

There have probably been worse, but with some sort of minimum longevity standard, these have to be the guys.
Ya, Fiery Phil as he was called as a player & Coach. Some amusing stories about him & his temper out there. Got suspended for either slugging or mauling an official while playing. English wasnt great when he started, the NHL in the 30's full of older players (over 30), one of the insults regularly hurled around being "hasbeen". Phil calling guys "why you, you been has" n' whatnot. Rode Worsley hard, about his drinking, smoking & eating habits but Gumper performed so that shut him up. Watson was a headcase, developing ulcers. Coached in Boston, got cremated, WHA thereafter, same dealeo if Im not mistaken. Player outrage at being treated like children, insulted & excoriated. The usual.... blessedly dying in his sleep back in the 70's I believe. Rictus grin on his face no doubt. Real charmer that one.

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Old
03-10-2013, 05:37 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Crazy thing is that the Canes have MacLean and another much maligned former HC in Dave Lewis as assistants right now, both have been rather solid in that role as well.

Hard to get worse then Bill LaForge for HC though
LaForge was the first guy I thought of. He was good in junniors, but did not get how the pros worked. But to be fair to him--The Canucks did have a pretty bad team. The team was not a 500 team till 91-92 and average 40+ loses a year during that time. So I do not think laying all the blame on LaForge is in order--for the GMs in Vancouver did not have a clue and that is whjy they brought in quinn in 87/88 and that is when the organization turned around

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03-10-2013, 05:57 AM
  #83
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Serious case for worst coach (at least in modern NHL) can be built for John MacLean. Mainly because of evidence. Many times we simply can't know if different coach would perform better and how much better.
Going from TOP 3 of the worst teams to TOP 3 of the best teams basically just with coach change...man, that's a turnover! I would never ever think that coach could have so big impact.
Rookie coach vs. HOF coach.

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03-10-2013, 12:41 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Well thats not very nice. I feel like I just got struckbyaparkedcar!
Fair, that was a bit harsh on my part, sorry dude.

However, the Sabres weren't the reason for Bowman's mediocrity as GM, Scotty was shooting his own self in the foot more often than not.

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03-10-2013, 12:55 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Fair, that was a bit harsh on my part, sorry dude.... However, the Sabres weren't the reason for Bowman's mediocrity as GM, Scotty was shooting his own self in the foot more often than not.
No worries, rather be struckbyaparkedcar than struckbyacarinmotion.... I'll defer to your obviously greater knowledge of the situation. Obviously being from the area, the State, I'd imagine you paid far closer attention to the situation than I ever did. Maybe his vision was blurred during his tenure with the Sabres. Seeing things through a veil of tears after that old Bastid Pollock handed the GM's reins to Grundman, forcing him out of Montreal. Possible. Emotionally damaged, depressed through the entire decade of the 80's. Ive wondered about that actually.

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03-10-2013, 01:13 PM
  #86
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That's fair. An average GM + brilliant coach in one body probably seems a little more attractive than mountainous incompetence. Your premise is pretty accurate, but it should be focused on the Habs' organizational excellence making an average guy something more, not a Mickey Mouse club dethroning a genius.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:44 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
A lot of the 2006-07 Jackets' key players were past 30 and on the decline (Fedorov, Vyborny, Foote, Norrena). His predecessor had traded away Beauchemin for an aging Fedorov, and traded McQuaid for a 5th round pick. There weren't many young players or prospects to get excited about, save Zherdev and Mason.

Howson at least - briefly - made the Jackets a playoff team before blowing up the team for another rebuild. He did make a number of good trades, such as the ones for Umberger, Vermette, Tyutin, and Torres. Even recently he managed to acquire a decent 3rd line centre and two top-4 defencemen (Letestu, Nikitin, Wisniewski) by trading a 4th, 4th and 5th rounder. He had the misfortune of seeing Carter and Wisniewski, his two big acquisitions, get injured in the opening weeks of the 2011-12 season, contributing to that team being so bad and Carter wanting out.

In hindsight, his only real bad moves were: 1) selecting "bust" Filatov at 6th overall, 2) making Mason his starter, and 3) firing Hitchcock. I think Howson at least beats the likes of Maclean and Milbury.
Agreed. You could even make an argument he made more good moves than bad ones (not sure how much water that holds). Mason did win rookie of the year so understandably they were worried about giving up on him in case he could replicate that form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Milbury's trade of Luongo for Dipietro made very little sense at that time. It looks 100x worse now. But even at that time he had the best young goalie in the game. I remember thinking that with a little luck Luongo could be in the mix for the 2002 Olympics at that time (he had to wait for the 2004 World Cup). What in the world was he thinking?
Again like I said, that day was possibly the worst day any GM had in recent memory; he doesn't make that trade and they have Luongo and Jokinen instead of Kvasha and Parrish, and then instead of selecting DiPietro, he could have taken Heatley or Gaborik. Even with those bad moves, the islanders got decent the next 2 years so if he followed the general consensus, the isles may have been contenders before the lockout.

But despite having no budget pre-cap, he got them to the playoffs twice. That alone was enough to put him over Maclean in my books who spent 8 years there and only savvy move was taking the best player 1st overall in 2002.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:07 AM
  #88
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Bryan Trottier for worst coach. I remember people hailing him as the next great NHL coach. He coached a few games for the Rangers and never coached again. Solid player though.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:30 AM
  #89
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OTOH: Rejean Houle for GM and beacuse I looked him up fairly recently, Milt Schmidt for coach.

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03-11-2013, 11:48 AM
  #90
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Gm - Rejean Houle

Coach - Dave Allison

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03-11-2013, 12:54 PM
  #91
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Special consideration needs to be paid to certain guys who the game passed by. Mike Keenan would never make either of these lists due to being wildly successful with Philadelphia, Chicago, and New York but I'd put him at the top for his tenure with Florida

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03-11-2013, 03:22 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by blogofmike View Post
OTOH: Rejean Houle for GM and beacuse I looked him up fairly recently, Milt Schmidt for coach.
I was coing to say that the worst pairing of GM and coach for one team was the Houle/Mario Tremblay one in Montreal.. what a fiasco.... To think that they actually replaced Demers and Savard with those clowns is ridiculous...

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03-11-2013, 03:25 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by leeaf83 View Post
Agreed. You could even make an argument he made more good moves than bad ones (not sure how much water that holds). Mason did win rookie of the year so understandably they were worried about giving up on him in case he could replicate that form.



Again like I said, that day was possibly the worst day any GM had in recent memory; he doesn't make that trade and they have Luongo and Jokinen instead of Kvasha and Parrish, and then instead of selecting DiPietro, he could have taken Heatley or Gaborik. Even with those bad moves, the islanders got decent the next 2 years so if he followed the general consensus, the isles may have been contenders before the lockout.

But despite having no budget pre-cap, he got them to the playoffs twice. That alone was enough to put him over Maclean in my books who spent 8 years there and only savvy move was taking the best player 1st overall in 2002.
Im pretty sure the Luongo deal stemmed from money. As Luongo only had one year left. Still a ****** trade and Ill never understand why Milbury never managed to get quality back from his trades. He did with Yashin but he also gave up alot more.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:02 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by double5son10 View Post
Can't have Tremblay without including Houle as GM. Roy was the most egregious screw-up of Houle's tenure, trading the backbone of the franchise plus team captain Mike Keane for a pair of 2nd line wingers and a back-up. One of the worst trades ever, but then you look at his other moves and it just gets mind-numbing.

Traded heart and soul D-man Lyle Odelein for headcase Stephane Richer (who'd publicly stated he didn't want to go back to Montreal), then a year later bundled Richer with Darcy Tucker for Igor Ulanov, Patrick Poulin, and Mick Vukota. Genius!
But of course it just gets better and better:
Pierre Turgeon and Craig Conroy for Shayne Corson and Murray Baron
Mark Recchi for Danius Zubrus and a 2nd.
Vincent Damphousse for the 1st. Damphousse was traded away because of his upcoming FA status and Houle didn't want to pay his demands. Houle then turned around and traded his own 1st for Trevor Linden and promptly paid Linden the same per year that Damphousse had been looking for ($3.3 million, or there about if memory serves).

That's a HOF goalie, a soon to be HOF winger, three captains, an assistant captain, one of the finest pests of his generation and Jerome Iginla's set-up man, for Shayne Corson, Martin Rucinsky, a marginal starter in goal (Thibault or his replacement Jeff Hackett, take your pick) and some picks.

And what picks!!!:
1996--Matt Higgins, 18th overall, 57 GP in NHL
1997--Jason Ward, 11th overall, 336 GP in NHL (only 105 w/ Habs) & let's not forget in the 2nd Gregor Baumgartner (who?), 37th, no NHL GP
1998--Eric Chouinard, 16th overall, 90 GP in NHL
1999--No 1st, traded for Linden. First pick was in the 2nd, Alexander Buturlin, 39th overall, No NHL GP.
With the pick from the Recchi trade: Matt Carkner, 58th overall, 171 GP in NHL, none w/ Montreal.
2000--Ron Hainsey, the crown jewel of Houle's scouting department, 13th overall, 566 GP and,
Marcel (I'm not Marian) Hossa, 16th overall, 237 NHL GP

Red Wings fans can point to Harkness all they want, but Houle is frankly in a league by himself as far as incompetence. And at least Harkness had success on the collegiate level, so you can understand why management would have chosen him. Houle had been selling beer for Molson before Ron Corey made the call.
And yes, it was Houle's call to hire Tremblay, who had already publicly feuded with Roy and had called for Roy to be traded on his radio show.
It isn't just that Houle took the job. Who wouldn't. I would, even if in over my head. I'd hire some experienced and knowledgeable people to surround me though. You know, the Marc Bergevin recipe. But who did he surround himself with is the biggest problem. Same with the coaching. Tremblay. Yvan Cournoyer came in as an assistant coach. His players in the RHL dumped him because of his coaching style. From top to bottom, asside from Jacques Laperriere, no one had any experience. Just because people have a bunch of Stanley Cup rings, it doesn't make them good hockey executives, or coaches. Gretzky's got rings as a player. What did he get as a coach.

Tremblay still has a winning record as a coach, and there are some coaches that named here that fared a lot worse than he did. AS far as GMs go, Houle gets to stand with the grates like Milbury. (And yes, I did spell grates properly.)

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03-11-2013, 08:15 PM
  #95
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Mario Trembley?
Yup, I second this and Milbury for GM

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
It's a shame because McGuire is very smart. He's probably the best color guy in the league, because of his smarts and his passion for the game...they're nearly unmatched. But in Hartford, he was not taken too well...I wonder if that was just youthful exuberance/immaturity...I kind of wonder if he would do it differently now and how he would do...he's no dummy that's for sure...
Wasn't much better when he was the Head Coach of the Baton Rouge Kingfish of the ECHL. 31-33-6, overall record, tied for sixth worst record in the league that year.

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:49 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
It's a shame because McGuire is very smart. He's probably the best color guy in the league, because of his smarts and his passion for the game...they're nearly unmatched. But in Hartford, he was not taken too well...I wonder if that was just youthful exuberance/immaturity...I kind of wonder if he would do it differently now and how he would do...he's no dummy that's for sure...
I agree that McGuire is very smart, but he is also socially retarded. It's all about how his schtick comes across....he would get really annoying really fast.

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03-14-2013, 03:12 PM
  #98
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I just came here to post the same thing. Didn't his usage of The Gauntlet "drill" end Darcy Rota's career? Did I get the story right?
Yes, that's exactly right.
Pride. Hustle. Desire

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03-14-2013, 03:13 PM
  #99
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Harold Ballard's racism and stupidity blinds my judgement
Not to mention hiring ex-cons & pedophiles

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03-14-2013, 04:19 PM
  #100
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Pride. Hustle. Desire
4-16-2

Including a 13-2 loss to the Flyers

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