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Trade Kessel?

View Poll Results: Should Phil Kessel be traded?
Yes 194 51.60%
No 182 48.40%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:03 PM
  #576
thecatch22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
I never got how Kessel isnt a fit for this system but Perry is.. Perry has like 14 or 18 hits, Kessel has 7, Perry has like 14 blocked shots, Kessel has 12..

Perrys goals (on a better team) 32-27-50-37
Kessels goals (on a bottom feeder) 36 (boston)-30-32-37

so with the exception of 1 great yr, Kessel has tied or more goals than Perry. Also Kessel is 2 yrs younger (remember when fans wanted prospects?)

So then we come down to the tiebreaker to fans on this forum

Kessel = American
Perry = Canadian

oops, thats why
You've never seen Perry play...

Ever.

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03-08-2013, 07:12 PM
  #577
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Watching that video just makes you realize how much he misses Lupul... Where are those plays from JVR?
Was thinking EXACTLY the same thing, but didnt want to be accused of hating on one of the board's new favs.

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03-08-2013, 07:22 PM
  #578
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Let's revisit this thread after a couple of wins and see what changes.

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03-08-2013, 07:25 PM
  #579
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Trade him. He belongs on a team where he's not the centre piece and can fly under the radar. We look to him to carry us like #13 did for so many years, but it's unrealistic because he's just not that type of player.

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03-08-2013, 07:29 PM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
I never got how Kessel isnt a fit for this system but Perry is.. Perry has like 14 or 18 hits, Kessel has 7, Perry has like 14 blocked shots, Kessel has 12..

Perrys goals (on a better team) 32-27-50-37
Kessels goals (on a bottom feeder) 36 (boston)-30-32-37

so with the exception of 1 great yr, Kessel has tied or more goals than Perry. Also Kessel is 2 yrs younger (remember when fans wanted prospects?)

So then we come down to the tiebreaker to fans on this forum

Kessel = American
Perry = Canadian

oops, thats why
I will never ever use stats again to prove a point since it is obvious stats dont tell you anything.

Have you seen Perry play?

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03-08-2013, 07:31 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Colton Orr doesn't shy away from contact. Does that mean you'd prefer giving Colton 20 minutes a night?

Obviously I'm stretching here, but what level of offense would you be willing trade for a grittier player?

10 Pts a year? 20? 30?
I'd take Patrice Bergeron's 0.78PPG over the last 3 seasons to Kessel's 0.88PPG (3 seasons) easily.

If San Jose came calling, wanted some speed added to their lineup, I'd offer Kessel for Thornton, age not withstanding

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03-08-2013, 07:53 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
Simple question. Should Kessel be traded?

I personally think he should, but I know many people here won't agree. He's not a Randy Carlyle type player and will never fit into a physical defensive system. He's soft as **** and completely heartless if not completely invisible on many nights.

With his contract up at the end of next season, he'll probably be asking for a raise, somewhere in the $7 million range. He's not worth that kind of money and we should be able to get some pretty decent return on him. If we don't trade Kessel, I feel that he'll likely walk at the end of next season, as I'm sure the scrutiny from the media and fans (because of the trade that brought him here AND his play of late) will eventually take their toll on him.
For Perry yes. Kessel won't do well in Carlyle's system or with Bozak. It looks like that right now anyways.

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03-08-2013, 08:42 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I'd take Patrice Bergeron's 0.78PPG over the last 3 seasons to Kessel's 0.88PPG (3 seasons) easily.

If San Jose came calling, wanted some speed added to their lineup, I'd offer Kessel for Thornton, age not withstanding
So you'd be willing to sacrifice a whopping 8 Pts of offence to get a grittier player.

If that trade is out there, I'd bet most people would support it as well.

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03-08-2013, 09:01 PM
  #584
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Trade him if you can get a similar package that brought him here.

I sure to heck don't want his scared ass playing chicken hockey for my Leafs while getting paid more than 5 million to boot!

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03-08-2013, 09:06 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
The Kessel thing is a big issue this season. If you were going to trade him, this is your last chance to get decent value. A team trading for him is guaranteed a playoff run, and next year. If you trade him next year, he's just a rental.

Getzlaf will likely be used as a comparable for Kessel. He may not get 8.25, but I'm sure he will get 7. Does anyone really want 7+ tied up on Kessel for the next 8 years? I dont. I dont think he's at that level.

I would prefer to trade him, get an asset or two and spend the money on better players when they become available.

And the fact that Kessel gets shut down time after time in big games with the Bruins is the perfect reason to bring up trading him. We have to go through the Bruins in the playoffs most years under the new structure. I dont want Kessel leading the charge to getting swept.
I agree with this!

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03-08-2013, 09:10 PM
  #586
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I think if as Leafs fans we finally ignore what we gave up for him then trading Kessel wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Overpaying on his next contract would be a disaster

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03-08-2013, 10:36 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by buntek View Post
Everything is stats driven with you guys, and then when Kessel struggles, his back checking has improved. Just because their assist totals are similar is irrelevant. That doesn't make them the same quality playmaker. Half you guys act like you've never held a stick....
It's obvious that most complaining probably don't play sports in general. I don't even think most could even do five inverse chin ups.

Stamkos is elite, but he clearly has a bias for scoring. Much like Eric Staal. If we're talking about balanced elite players, it'd be Crosby. He can pretty much do anything. The fact that it's not common tells you why elite players like Kessel exist.

It's more than just stats. Stamkos is more complete than Kessel. He certainly isn't a Crosby. In fact, Kessel could utilize line mates a lot better than Stamkos. Lupul had potential, but he just isn't as refined as St Louis nor has someone like Vinny to make it difficult for opponents to effectively match lines.

Interestingly, it seems your ilk and yourself seem to think that you stand by the principle of parsimony. Delusional-thinking can be universal, though. Do answer, the question, where do the Tampa Bay Lightnings stand?

I'd take statistics over the reasoning of a drunk.

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03-08-2013, 10:50 PM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
I never got how Kessel isnt a fit for this system but Perry is.. Perry has like 14 or 18 hits, Kessel has 7, Perry has like 14 blocked shots, Kessel has 12..

Perrys goals (on a better team) 32-27-50-37
Kessels goals (on a bottom feeder) 36 (boston)-30-32-37

so with the exception of 1 great yr, Kessel has tied or more goals than Perry. Also Kessel is 2 yrs younger (remember when fans wanted prospects?)

So then we come down to the tiebreaker to fans on this forum

Kessel = American
Perry = Canadian

oops, thats why
Corey Perry is kind of an *******. Don't let the hits fool you.

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03-08-2013, 10:51 PM
  #589
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How about we keep kessel and offer o Reilly and frattin for perry and then we would have three good lines

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03-08-2013, 10:55 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
It's obvious that most complaining probably don't play sports in general. I don't even think most could even do five inverse chin ups.

Stamkos is elite, but he clearly has a bias for scoring. Much like Eric Staal. If we're talking about balanced elite players, it'd be Crosby. He can pretty much do anything. The fact that it's not common tells you why elite players like Kessel exist.

It's more than just stats. Stamkos is more complete than Kessel. He certainly isn't a Crosby. In fact, Kessel could utilize line mates a lot better than Stamkos. Lupul had potential, but he just isn't as refined as St Louis nor has someone like Vinny to make it difficult for opponents to effectively match lines.

Interestingly, it seems your ilk and yourself seem to think that you stand by the principle of parsimony. Delusional-thinking can be universal, though. Do answer, the question, where do the Tampa Bay Lightnings stand?

I'd take statistics over the reasoning of a drunk.
An abundance of sound reasoning from this guy right here: statistics are everything; insults for those who don't agree.

Give it a rest, buddy. Kessel is Kessel. The guy has one of the best shots in the league, incredible speed and great playmaking abilities. But he refuses to play defence, refuses to fight for space, refuses to take a hit to make a play and gives-up on plays regularly.

I'd take a more well-rounded player any day of the week -- even at the expense of points. Kessel gets shutdown far too often. I want to ice a team that completes hard and is tough to play against; how hard is it to play against Kessel? When you're in the defensive zone, Kessel won't battle you along the boards to get a loose puck; and when you're in the offensive zone, Kessel won't battle you to get the puck out.

I respect the guy's offensive talents but everything else about his game is brutal.

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03-08-2013, 11:05 PM
  #591
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Alright I'm pissed.

I can't understand for the life of me that most of you would condone trading a legit goal scoring forward who isn't even hurting you defensively this year.

I know Phil Kessel has his limitation but that doesn't warrant trading him. He's a 1st liner on any team in the league and yes, he's limited on forecheck due to his size and build but he makes up for it with his offense.

A team has to be built a certain way for Kessel to thrive. Boston is a great example of a team built on the concept of size and speed. Kessel was flourishing there because he wasn't counted on to do the forechecking. He was at odds with Julien but regardless of that he put up a more than productive season and playoffs with the Bruins.

Toronto, in the position they are in, will not get a player even close to Kessel's caliber in return. The only player realistically available on the market that I'd even entertain trading Kessel for is Perry but that's a long shot. No draft pick from a team is certain to develop into a NHL caliber talent, and no player given back will be even close to Kessel's skill level.

Please, accept him for who he is. When he's on, he's unstoppable and a player with this talent can really help you win a playoff round.

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03-08-2013, 11:14 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Alright I'm pissed.

I can't understand for the life of me that most of you would condone trading a legit goal scoring forward who isn't even hurting you defensively this year.

I know Phil Kessel has his limitation but that doesn't warrant trading him. He's a 1st liner on any team in the league and yes, he's limited on forecheck due to his size and build but he makes up for it with his offense.

A team has to be built a certain way for Kessel to thrive. Boston is a great example of a team built on the concept of size and speed. Kessel was flourishing there because he wasn't counted on to do the forechecking. He was at odds with Julien but regardless of that he put up a more than productive season and playoffs with the Bruins.

Toronto, in the position they are in, will not get a player even close to Kessel's caliber in return. The only player realistically available on the market that I'd even entertain trading Kessel for is Perry but that's a long shot. No draft pick from a team is certain to develop into a NHL caliber talent, and no player given back will be even close to Kessel's skill level.

Please, accept him for who he is. When he's on, he's unstoppable and a player with this talent can really help you win a playoff round.
So Rebuild the team around Phil ... Great Plan ... has it been done before? Doesn't matter I guess. Lets trade the farm! Trade EVERYONE in a desperate attempt to facilitate the offensive production of our suppossed ELITE offensive forward?

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03-08-2013, 11:45 PM
  #593
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So Rebuild the team around Phil ... Great Plan ... has it been done before? Doesn't matter I guess. Lets trade the farm! Trade EVERYONE in a desperate attempt to facilitate the offensive production of our suppossed ELITE offensive forward?
You don't rebuild around him, but you build a team around him. There is a difference. He doesn't have to be your franchise player, or your best player. He can be part of the puzzle.

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03-08-2013, 11:45 PM
  #594
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The first step is to admit the truth that trading Kessel was a mistake for the leafs. There are too many people and fans who are still trying to justify and make that trade appear a home run success. The trade is in the past and when people get past that then they are free to choose to keep the player and build around him and his soon to be expensive contract.

Or try to trade Kessel - provided the value makes sense and the leafs can find another GM as silly as Burke was to base his rebuild on a one dimensional support player rather then finding a core piece.

The other possibility and my hope is that Kessel finally rounds out his game - something he has shown inability or interest in doing to date. He is a great talent but he has to take some ownership for his deficiencies. And at this point, I've given up on the idea that he has dedication or willingness to improve his game in the off season. Time will tell but if he wants fans to respect him then he needs to step up and improve his game rather then simply relying on his strengths and talents.

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03-08-2013, 11:54 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Alright I'm pissed.

I can't understand for the life of me that most of you would condone trading a legit goal scoring forward who isn't even hurting you defensively this year.

I know Phil Kessel has his limitation but that doesn't warrant trading him. He's a 1st liner on any team in the league and yes, he's limited on forecheck due to his size and build but he makes up for it with his offense.

A team has to be built a certain way for Kessel to thrive. Boston is a great example of a team built on the concept of size and speed. Kessel was flourishing there because he wasn't counted on to do the forechecking. He was at odds with Julien but regardless of that he put up a more than productive season and playoffs with the Bruins.

Toronto, in the position they are in, will not get a player even close to Kessel's caliber in return. The only player realistically available on the market that I'd even entertain trading Kessel for is Perry but that's a long shot. No draft pick from a team is certain to develop into a NHL caliber talent, and no player given back will be even close to Kessel's skill level.

Please, accept him for who he is. When he's on, he's unstoppable and a player with this talent can really help you win a playoff round.
Agreed 100% it blows my mind that the Leafs FINALLY have a young core in place Kessel Kadri, JVR, Gardiner, Rielly, Phaneuf and people want to trade Kessel . Me? I want to beef up our top 6 by signing Horton, Clarkson or Clowe and build from there.

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03-09-2013, 12:07 AM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Alright I'm pissed.

I can't understand for the life of me that most of you would condone trading a legit goal scoring forward who isn't even hurting you defensively this year.

I know Phil Kessel has his limitation but that doesn't warrant trading him. He's a 1st liner on any team in the league and yes, he's limited on forecheck due to his size and build but he makes up for it with his offense.

A team has to be built a certain way for Kessel to thrive. Boston is a great example of a team built on the concept of size and speed. Kessel was flourishing there because he wasn't counted on to do the forechecking. He was at odds with Julien but regardless of that he put up a more than productive season and playoffs with the Bruins.

Toronto, in the position they are in, will not get a player even close to Kessel's caliber in return. The only player realistically available on the market that I'd even entertain trading Kessel for is Perry but that's a long shot. No draft pick from a team is certain to develop into a NHL caliber talent, and no player given back will be even close to Kessel's skill level.

Please, accept him for who he is. When he's on, he's unstoppable and a player with this talent can really help you win a playoff round.
Doesn't cost you anything on the defensive side? A combined -20 against the Bruins. He can't put up points or defend. Pretty useful.

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03-09-2013, 12:10 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
Agreed 100% it blows my mind that the Leafs FINALLY have a young core in place Kessel Kadri, JVR, Gardiner, Rielly, Phaneuf and people want to trade Kessel . Me? I want to beef up our top 6 by signing Horton, Clarkson or Clowe and build from there.
agreed, the way I see it Kessel gives us simply another scoring threat which is very necessary in big games, we need to split the other teams defense, so that we have multiple guys who can score(right now Kadri, Kessel and JVR are the big ones, Lupul and Frattin when they come back.)

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03-09-2013, 12:11 AM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post

I know Phil Kessel has his limitation but that doesn't warrant trading him. He's a 1st liner on any team in the league and yes, he's limited on forecheck due to his size and build but he makes up for it with his offense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
You don't rebuild around him, but you build a team around him. There is a difference. He doesn't have to be your franchise player, or your best player. He can be part of the puzzle.
So build around someone who isn't your best player? Get players that compliment someone who isn't even the best player on the team, in order to accommodate that player? That's logical. Players should be the ones who are malleable; not teams. If Kessel can't adapt that's a personal deficiency -- not a team-based one.

This guy doesn't seem to have any issue with the forecheck despite his size. Why does Kessel? edit: People continually make excuses for the guy. Why can't people just admit to the way he plays? Detractors have no issue admitting he has a wicked offensive talent and speed; but proponents of Kessel continually fabricate reasons for why he can't or isn't doing something.


Last edited by 080: 03-09-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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03-09-2013, 12:27 AM
  #599
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NO! DO NOT! despite my knee jerk reaction after the boston game.

once he gets it in his head how awesome he can be...even against boston...and once dion realizes he can shut down down sequin like he does clarkson and crosby....look out.


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03-09-2013, 12:31 AM
  #600
The Podium
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Its an improbably coincidence that who ever plays with Kessel has a career year. Has nothing to do with his talent, obviously Lupul decided to break out at 28 and JVR decided to score at a 44 goal pace before hitting 25 goals

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