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Trade Kessel?

View Poll Results: Should Phil Kessel be traded?
Yes 194 51.60%
No 182 48.40%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-07-2013, 11:38 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
1. Seeing as anything can happen in the playoffs, I am fine with the 7th or 8th seed (although we are projected to finish 4th or 5th)

2. Kessel is a sniper, and considering Phil Kessel had 6 gwg last year (to compare Malkin had 9 on a much better Pitty team that won many more games). So no, all his goals aren`t meaningless.

3. Trading a 24 year old elite sniper for draft picks does what for us? Maybe gets us a future 3rd liner like Tyler Biggs? Sounds great bro

4. Trade Phil Kessel for 2 way forwards? Like Mike Fisher? or like Ryan Kesler?

5. Kessel is streaky, but how much of that is because he has no center to set up him. He can't do it all himself.
God bless you you need to believe your delusions. If the Leafs make the playoffs it will because of Carlyles system and Ward in Carolina injury and same with Broudeur in Newjersey but hey its a shorted season but one day the light is going to go on and it will be the day you realized your thought process on the Leafs is all wrong. Please do not feel bad there are many of you so hungry for success you are short sighted for true real goal.

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03-07-2013, 11:40 PM
  #202
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Just for Perry (plus an extension). I'm sure we'd have to offer up a little more. I think I'd do Kessel and Gardiner for Perry with an extension. We've done pretty well this year without Gardiner and we have Reilly who will be ready in a year or two. I'm fine keeping Kessel and Gardiner. I like both the players, but I'd give them up for Perry.

Lupul - Kadri - Perry
JVR - Bozak - Frattin
Kulemin - Grabo - MacArthur
Komarov - McClement - McClaren

Phaneuf - Gunnarson
Reilly - Finn
Franson - Fraser

Reimer
Scrivens

i went off the board for the defence, but I like the looks of that team

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03-07-2013, 11:41 PM
  #203
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Trade Kessel gaining support




Feels good man



For years some of us called for Wilson to be fired - it came - far too late - but we felt good.
For years some of us called for Burke to be fired - it came - far too late - but we all felt good.
For years some of us have been calling for Kessel to be traded - it will come - far too late - but well still feel good!

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03-07-2013, 11:42 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
God bless you you need to believe your delusions. If the Leafs make the playoffs it will because of Carlyles system and Ward in Carolina injury and same with Broudeur in Newjersey but hey its a shorted season but one day the light is going to go on and it will be the day you realized your thought process on the Leafs is all wrong. Please do not feel bad there are many of you so hungry for success you are short sighted for true real goal.
I'm pretty sure you arm chair GMs know how to run a team and what makes a successful team. Go send you resume to Leafs sports and entertainment, and maybe you can use your intellect to build this team into a contender.

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03-07-2013, 11:42 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
God bless you you need to believe your delusions. If the Leafs make the playoffs it will because of Carlyles system and Ward in Carolina injury and same with Broudeur in Newjersey but hey its a shorted season but one day the light going to go on and it will be the day you realized your thought process on the Leafs is all wrong. Please do not feel bad there are many of you so hungry for success you are short sighted for true real goal.
Says the guy who wants to trade Phil Kessel for draft picks...

Considering we were ahead of New Jersey and Carolina before those injuries and that both teams are in a playoff spot along with Toronto despite those injuries...

The shortened season means nothing, everyone has the same amount of season to win games. No one gets an advantage because it's a shortened season.

The real goal is the Stanley Cup. Want to know how to win that? Making the playoffs. Want to know how to make the playoffs? By not trading our best player for freakin draft picks that may turn out to be 3rd liners.

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03-07-2013, 11:43 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
Simple question. Should Kessel be traded?

I personally think he should, but I know many people here won't agree. He's not a Randy Carlyle type player and will never fit into a physical defensive system. He's soft as **** and completely heartless if not completely invisible on many nights.

With his contract up at the end of next season, he'll probably be asking for a raise, somewhere in the $7 million range. He's not worth that kind of money and we should be able to get some pretty decent return on him. If we don't trade Kessel, I feel that he'll likely walk at the end of next season, as I'm sure the scrutiny from the media and fans (because of the trade that brought him here AND his play of late) will eventually take their toll on him.

NO sign him. This team FINALLY has a core starting to form and you want to REMOVE the biggest part of it because of ONE ****ING LOSS?????????? I bet my bottom dollar if we won tonight this poll doesn't exist.

NO you sign your best player to a long term contract, you build around the core of Kessel Kadri, JVR, Gardiner, Rielly Phaneuf. You try to beef up the 2nd line hopefully by signing a Horton, Clarkson, Clowe type winger and you build from there.

ONLY way you trade Kessel is if perry signs and even then why trade Kessel ? what would be wrong with Kessel Perry, JVR, Lupul on wing?

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03-07-2013, 11:43 PM
  #207
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People will see how truly useless Kessel is in the playoffs. Playing a 7 game series against a tight checking, hard hitting team is the same as sitting Kessel out for the entire series.

Keeping him is fine, but not at 7M/YR. If he was making 5M/YR, like Carter, he would be a great compliment. But 7+ should go to your go to players, and Kessel is not one of those.

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03-07-2013, 11:45 PM
  #208
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People say Kessel is useless in the playoffs, yet is PPG in his playoff career (which is 15 games, and for the playoffs that is a decent sample size.

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03-07-2013, 11:46 PM
  #209
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Kessel is a useful player on a good team. If he's looking at franchise player money then sure, we probably should trade him because he isn't clearly above his peers enough to be worth it. That being said, nobody knows what kind of deal he's looking for. His current deal isn't horrible, and he's probably worth that money. If he's happy in Toronto and is willing to stick around for similar coin, I'd be more than happy to keep him. His speed is a tactical weapon that can be used by a great coach like Randy when there's a good matchup. He may not be a superstar, but he's one of the more dangerous players in the league when he gets the puck.

Another factor is what we could get for him. If there's a deal out there that can significantly improve us by giving us a top center, goalie or defenceman than obviously it's worth looking at. He's not crucial to our success so he could be traded, but he's still enough a part of our success that we'd have to get something pretty good if we're going to lose him.

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03-07-2013, 11:46 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
People say Kessel is useless in the playoffs, yet is PPG in his playoff career (which is 15 games, and for the playoffs that is a decent sample size.
insulate him with the right players and he'll be successful. He's not a go to guy that does everything, never will.

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03-07-2013, 11:46 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
He is streaky as hell and gets those cute goals when your teams already up by 2 or down by 2.
The first part is true, but only to some degree. Kessel has proven to be extremely consistent when he has another legitimate scoring option on his line. (I don't consider JVR on the same level of Lupul in this regard) He went scoreless in 24 games last season, never more than 3 in a row. Not amazing, but points in almost 60 of 82 games? That's among the very, very best in the entire NHL.

The second part is completely baseless.

Kessel scores all the time. It doesn't matter when.

Last season he scored 13 goals and assisted on 14 others when the game was tied. That's not clutch? He also scored the first goal of the game 8 times. Teams that score first usually win. He also only scored 1 goal when the game was a blowout, and had 12 goals and 12 assists in the last 5 minutes of games, only 1 of which he scored into an empty net.

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03-07-2013, 11:48 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Great post. I've had conversations with all sorts of non Leafs fans and they nearly all agree that the Kessel trade was an absolute disaster for the Leafs. Seems like a growing number of Leafs fans are catching on to this and what you said. The Leafs shouldn't build around a passenger like Kessel. If he really was as "elite" as some Leafs fans seem to think he is, maybe there is a silly GM out there who overrates Kessel just the same.
I'm not even based in Toronto. Not to mention, I'm regularly overseas. Point being, I meet hockey fans of all colours. Besides, I'm not even North American despite living there once.

Saying that, the problem with that assessment is that we're comparing Kessel alone to Seguin/ Hamilton. It's quite probable that as a sum, they'd be better players. I, on the other hand, don't think that either will necessarily outdo Kessel.

You just don't end up top five last season despite being with a dysfunctional team, or fan base. Torontonians are generally a pretty pessimistic bunch. TTC is exceptional, very frequent, late night coverage and high female usage at night. Suburban streets are bustling with activity and yet those in Montreal/ Vancouver, probably Torontonians ( rivaling the Austrians imo) as well, consider Toronto dead.

Kessel is Kessel. He's a bonafide elite. The fact that this inconsistent player can up that streaky player, JVR, to one where he is approaching top five in the goal scoring is outright amazing. This is the kind of that you keep.

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03-07-2013, 11:49 PM
  #213
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Yes and no. It always depends on what the offer is.

The problem is that people expect Kessel to be more than he is. Personally, he's not at all fit for Randy Carlyle hockey, and I wouldn't be suprised if he's gone very soon.

He avoids hits at all cost, which lead to turnovers. He avoids clearing the puck on multiple occasions to avoid a hit. Everytime he's out there with his line he sticks out line a sore thumb with his poor positioning, weak clears, lack of practically any board battles down low. He might be great on Ron Wilson like team that plays all out offense because that's his style, but he doesn't fit Randy's. And Nonis has to address get more competitive skilled upfront to fit Randy's style.

At the end, trading him for the sake of trading, or trading him because he has bad showing against one division rival is terrible asset management; which is what got us to overpay from him in the first place.

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03-07-2013, 11:50 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
People say Kessel is useless in the playoffs, yet is PPG in his playoff career (which is 15 games, and for the playoffs that is a decent sample size.
What team was that with ? Oh yeah not the Leafs. If a trade comes like say for Backstrom and Brooks Laich on paper you would say Kessel is the best offensive player but in no other catagory would he be mentioned on. 2 guys who can score 23 plus goals and set up others and play a well rounded game is far more an addition than freakin Kessel.

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03-07-2013, 11:51 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
insulate him with the right players and he'll be successful. He's not a go to guy that does everything, never will.
and that is grounds to trade him? Then we should just fold the NHL, because there is maybe 10 players like that in the league

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03-07-2013, 11:53 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Says the guy who wants to trade Phil Kessel for draft picks...

Considering we were ahead of New Jersey and Carolina before those injuries and that both teams are in a playoff spot along with Toronto despite those injuries...

The shortened season means nothing, everyone has the same amount of season to win games. No one gets an advantage because it's a shortened season.

The real goal is the Stanley Cup. Want to know how to win that? Making the playoffs. Want to know how to make the playoffs? By not trading our best player for freakin draft picks that may turn out to be 3rd liners.

Btw Corr I read the same rhetoric on How Kessel was a proven star and Seguin and Hamilton are unproven, wait till Knight gets back from his torn groin in 2 years from now its just going to be another slap in the face

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03-07-2013, 11:53 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
What team was that with ? Oh yeah not the Leafs. If a trade comes like say for Backstrom and Brooks Laich on paper you would say Kessel is the best offensive player but in no other catagory would he be mentioned on. 2 guys who can score 23 plus goals and set up others and play a well rounded game is far more an addition than freakin Kessel.
a trade like that will never happen so there's no point of even bringing it up. How exactly you going to replace him with. I would like to know answers because some people are trading him for the sake of not liking the type of player.

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03-07-2013, 11:54 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
What team was that with ? Oh yeah not the Leafs. If a trade comes like say for Backstrom and Brooks Laich on paper you would say Kessel is the best offensive player but in no other catagory would he be mentioned on. 2 guys who can score 23 plus goals and set up others and play a well rounded game is far more an addition than freakin Kessel.
You would trade Phil Kessel for Brooks Laich?


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03-07-2013, 11:55 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
and that is grounds to trade him? Then we should just fold the NHL, because there is maybe 10 players like that in the league
I was on your side man. I'm open to trading him if it makes team better, but not trading him for the sake people have on this board. Even is Kessel is what he is, he is and can be a piece on a winning team despite people's foolish claims like they know what successful team is. I'm saying he needs some help, that's all.

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03-07-2013, 11:56 PM
  #220
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You would trade Phil Kessel for Brooks Laich?

Did you skip the Backstrom Part due to Tears of me Bringing up Seguin and Hamilton

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03-07-2013, 11:57 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by lucicfist View Post
Btw Corr I read the same rhetoric on How Kessel was a proven star and Seguin and Hamilton are unproven, wait till Knight gets back from his torn groin in 2 years from now its just going to be another slap in the face
1. Jared Knight won't be anything. Nothing to be upset about anyway.

2. People said that, did i? but to hate him for what he was traded for is unfair.

Bottom line is, you don't trade Kessel for a late first and a prospect (which is what people want to do)

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03-07-2013, 11:57 PM
  #222
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Btw Corr I read the same rhetoric on How Kessel was a proven star and Seguin and Hamilton are unproven, wait till Knight gets back from his torn groin in 2 years from now its just going to be another slap in the face
You\re really getting off on this aren't you. And where did he mention the rhetoric of Seguin/Hamilton being unproven; which is technically correct at one point.

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03-08-2013, 12:00 AM
  #223
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I don't have to look up the actual numbers but:

Didn't 6 of JVR's 13 goals come playing with Kadri/Grabo?
In fewer games than he's played with Phil...

And hasn't all of Kessels goals come from playing with JVR?

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03-08-2013, 12:01 AM
  #224
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I don't have to look up the actual numbers but:

Didn't 6 of JVR's 13 goals come playing with Kadri/Grabo?
In fewer games than he's played with Phil...

And hasn't all of Kessels goals come from playing with JVR?
EDIT:

I dont' have time to look up actual numbers but ...

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03-08-2013, 12:01 AM
  #225
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Hey guys, lets get Ovechkin. Beef up our line up with more skill and swagger. Kadri back hand sauce Ovy one T snipes bar down.

Kessel can compliment our line up - he's not clutch against the Bruins but who cares, he still helps us win hockey games against other teams.

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