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Around the NHL III: Playoff Push Edition

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:15 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
10 YEARS, 75M for each...80M if they really want to push it. Come on though, let's win! I am going to look at them different if they hold the Hawks up for more than 8M a year. That's ridiculous.
why are either of them taking less money than getzlaf, let alone perry, is making?

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03-19-2013, 09:27 AM
  #277
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Because they want to be a part of a cup winning team and not just make money.

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03-19-2013, 09:28 AM
  #278
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why are either of them taking less money than getzlaf, let alone perry, is making?
Because they play in Chicago and thus get better endorsement deals than those guys, and therefore can afford to take less from the team to keep them competitive.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:37 AM
  #279
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why are either of them taking less money than getzlaf, let alone perry, is making?
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Because they want to be a part of a cup winning team and not just make money.
Yeah, exactly. The good thing is the cap will be a lot higher by then but as it is, you look at Perry and Getzlaf in Anaheim, at those salaries, and I don't see a perenial Cup contender nor do I even see how it is possible. They'll have a few great years when they have an influx of cheap young talent but that will probably only be 2 or 3 of those 8 years.

The standard is a lot higher than Anaheim. If they want to get paid like they would as UFAs, there are going to be a lot of years like 10-11 and 11-12 and as great as these two guys are, as competitive as they are, I'll look at them as money players first and foremost, above all else, just like any other UFA we could have signed. That's fine, if they value the extra 1-1.5M a season over being a lot more competitive, it just shows where their priorities are.

Guys like Giroux, Carey Price, nobody is questioning their priorities. They're to make an absolute **** ton money while still giving their team the best chance to win.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:46 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Because they play in Chicago and thus get better endorsement deals than those guys, and therefore can afford to take less from the team to keep them competitive.
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Yeah, exactly. The good thing is the cap will be a lot higher by then but as it is, you look at Perry and Getzlaf in Anaheim, at those salaries, and I don't see a perenial Cup contender nor do I even see how it is possible. They'll have a few great years when they have an influx of cheap young talent but that will probably only be 2 or 3 of those 8 years.

The standard is a lot higher than Anaheim. If they want to get paid like they would as UFAs, there are going to be a lot of years like 10-11 and 11-12 and as great as these two guys are, as competitive as they are, I'll look at them as money players first and foremost, above all else, just like any other UFA we could have signed. That's fine, if they value the extra 1-1.5M a season over being a lot more competitive, it just shows where their priorities are.

Guys like Giroux, Carey Price, nobody is questioning their priorities. They're to make an absolute **** ton money while still giving their team the best chance to win.
You guys are just naive. Kane and Toews aren't taking $1.5m pay cuts just to play for a winner. If they perceive themselves as top 10-15 players in the world (as they should), they are going to feel like they should be paid as such.

Fact is, Sharp deal looks kind of awful right now. That's a guy they should have let go to UFA but he was coming off a couple of great seasons. And they can't trade him either because of his NMC.

The Perry & Getzlaf deals seem to be significant overpays of ~$1m/year considering they were not UFA. HOWEVER, if that's what we have to set the market for Kane/Toews, consider this...

Perry & Getz are having bounceback seasons, sure, but they are both coming off very mediocre seasons (for them). Kane and Toews are also set to hit FA a couple years younger than those two, as well, and are having career years right now. So to me, the Perry & Getzlaf deals would be the equivalent of taking a pay cut for 19 & 88.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:49 AM
  #281
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they can't start talks until the summer before the final year of their contract.



why would either sign for less than $8m/yr. If anything they'll both want closer to $9m/yr.
Which is why I said it would be a huge success and also why I never claimed I thought it would happen. Crosby has taken significantly less to give the Penguins flexibility in the past so it is not out of the realm of possibility as unlikely as it seems.

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03-19-2013, 09:50 AM
  #282
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You guys are just naive. Kane and Toews aren't taking $1.5m pay cuts just to play for a winner. If they perceive themselves as top 10-15 players in the world (as they should), they are going to feel like they should be paid as such.

Fact is, Sharp deal looks kind of awful right now. That's a guy they should have let go to UFA but he was coming off a couple of great seasons. And they can't trade him either because of his NMC.

The Perry & Getzlaf deals seem to be significant overpays of ~$1m/year considering they were not UFA. HOWEVER, if that's what we have to set the market for Kane/Toews, consider this...

Perry & Getz are having bounceback seasons, sure, but they are both coming off very mediocre seasons (for them). Kane and Toews are also set to hit FA a couple years younger than those two, as well, and are having career years right now. So to me, the Perry & Getzlaf deals would be the equivalent of taking a pay cut for 19 & 88.
Unless the cap goes up a ton (and it very well might), some difficult decisions would have to be made. I'd just keep all of the stars and go with near minimum salary guys on 3rd pairing D, most of the bottom 6 and even in net.

I love Crawford but I think the team would be better off just signing/trading for cheap salary goalies for both spots and go through them like toilet paper year to year than losing stars like Hossa, Bolland and Sharp.

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03-19-2013, 09:51 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
You guys are just naive. Kane and Toews aren't taking $1.5m pay cuts just to play for a winner. If they perceive themselves as top 10-15 players in the world (as they should), they are going to feel like they should be paid as such.

Fact is, Sharp deal looks kind of awful right now. That's a guy they should have let go to UFA but he was coming off a couple of great seasons. And they can't trade him either because of his NMC.

The Perry & Getzlaf deals seem to be significant overpays of ~$1m/year considering they were not UFA. HOWEVER, if that's what we have to set the market for Kane/Toews, consider this...

Perry & Getz are having bounceback seasons, sure, but they are both coming off very mediocre seasons (for them). Kane and Toews are also set to hit FA a couple years younger than those two, as well, and are having career years right now. So to me, the Perry & Getzlaf deals would be the equivalent of taking a pay cut for 19 & 88.
How is that Sharp deal awful? He's been a lock to score 30 goals a season the past 5 years.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:54 AM
  #284
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I'm finding a frequently disagree with you Bron on a lot of things.

Sharp's deal is fine. Under $6 mil for a 30-40 two way player? Nothing wrong with that at all.

Buying out Hossa? Illogical, impractical, and completely unrealistic for reasons previously discussed.

Toews and Kane have the same agent right? I strongly believe that they'll be getting the exact same deals as each other and all bowman has to say is "we want to win more cups. You can take more money if you really want but it's going to be harder for us to do that if you two are eating up almost 1/3rd our cap".

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03-19-2013, 09:58 AM
  #285
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It really annoys me to read X player should take a 15% pay cut so the team can keep winning. Come on, you going to take a 15% pay cut to stay with your current job? I'm sure as hell not if I have someone else on the table that is going to pay me what I'm worth.

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03-19-2013, 10:06 AM
  #286
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It really annoys me to read X player should take a 15% pay cut so the team can keep winning. Come on, you going to take a 15% pay cut to stay with your current job? I'm sure as hell not if I have someone else on the table that is going to pay me what I'm worth.
Did they bring the colleagues needed for me to achieve multi-million dollar bonuses that 95% of the workers would never see but I did because my company employed higher priced workers that most of the other companies, that also made my job and stress level easier to deal with?

Were they there for me all the way when I had personal problems (Kane)?

There is more than money in this equation.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:18 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Did they bring the colleagues needed for me to achieve multi-million dollar bonuses that 95% of the workers would never see but I did because my company employed higher priced workers that most of the other companies, that also made my job and stress level easier to deal with?

Were they there for me all the way when I had personal problems (Kane)?

There is more than money in this equation.
I could understand that if we're talking just a few bucks, but I get the vibe that people are going to want Kane and Toews to sign for 7.5M/year over 8 years instead of closer to 9M/year over those same 8 years. That's a boatload of cash. Don't get me wrong, I'd be absolutely thrilled if they signed for something like $7.5M over 8 years, but I sure as hell don't expect them to and won't be mad by any means if they don't.

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03-19-2013, 10:20 AM
  #288
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I'm finding a frequently disagree with you Bron on a lot of things.

Sharp's deal is fine. Under $6 mil for a 30-40 two way player? Nothing wrong with that at all.

Buying out Hossa? Illogical, impractical, and completely unrealistic for reasons previously discussed.

Toews and Kane have the same agent right? I strongly believe that they'll be getting the exact same deals as each other and all bowman has to say is "we want to win more cups. You can take more money if you really want but it's going to be harder for us to do that if you two are eating up almost 1/3rd our cap".
Hope you realize how laughable this all is.

Buying out Hossa is completely logical. It is the most logical thing to do. IMO, Stan would do it no doubt if given the flexibility by Wirtz.

You really think the bolded is that simple??

If Bowman says that and offers $7.5m per....all the agent has to do is say, you will pay more because if you lose these two players, the city will turn on you and you will be out of a job because your team will go back to being garbage. Because that agent knows there will be teams out there willing to pony up $9m per for an elite player.

Sharp is a fine player but he is the most expendable core player and he is on the wrong side of his prime. And we have tons of forward depth.

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03-19-2013, 10:23 AM
  #289
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I would love it, but I don't expect them to. If that 1.5M diffenence each makes as much difference as it would now vis a vis the cap, yeah, I'm going to be thinking of them when scrubs like Boynton are Pisani and blowing games for us.

Still, like I said, I think you could probably scrap paying goalies entirely and make a couple other adjustments and make it work either way. It will depend on where the cap is by then. We still have a lot of time.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:23 AM
  #290
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Kane and Toews aren't signing for $7.5m per year. They're going to want $8.5-9m.

This whole problem is the NHL's fault for insisting on that ridiculous CBA. They should have simply dropped the cap, introduced a luxury tax, and let the teams spend how the wished. The Hawks would have avoided this predicament altogether.

As for Hossa, I'd rather get rid of Sharp.

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03-19-2013, 10:29 AM
  #291
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Kane and Toews aren't signing for $7.5m per year. They're going to want $8.5-9m.

As for Hossa, I'd rather get rid of Sharp.
I don't know about that last part. Sharp's hit is at 5.9M for 4 more years after this year, making him a UFA at 35 or 36. That's not too terrible, especially given the contract other guys are currently getting.

Hossa's hit is 5.2M until 2021... just think about that, 2021! I really don't want to buyout Hossa by any means, but it might have to be seriously considered. I'd probably rather buy him out over Sharp, just because of the length left on Hossa's contract.

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03-19-2013, 10:30 AM
  #292
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Maybe we could buyout Hossa and let him rest back home for a year, then make a comeback for another season or two. Very risky though and I'd rather just keep the guy and keep him on the ice if we can.

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03-19-2013, 12:07 PM
  #293
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What is everyone so worried about? Currently, we only have Seabrook, Keith, Sharp, and Hossa signed when Toews and Kanes contract runs up. I'm sure managament is setting aside 20mil for Toews and Kane just to be safe. Any future contracts that are signed will either be for cheap, or a 1 year deal.

We have a fairly competant GM who manages the cap very well, I'm not the least bit worried about Toews and Kane. If they want to stay, they will take a semi home discount, and not even bother with testing the market.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #294
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Getzlaf and Perry

those are your contracts Toews and Kane will get too. Now somebody has to make a Roster with Cap Geek and those Cap Hits

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03-19-2013, 12:56 PM
  #295
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Kane and Toews aren't signing for $7.5m per year. They're going to want $8.5-9m.

This whole problem is the NHL's fault for insisting on that ridiculous CBA. They should have simply dropped the cap, introduced a luxury tax, and let the teams spend how the wished. The Hawks would have avoided this predicament altogether.

As for Hossa, I'd rather get rid of Sharp.
That was never happening.. Salary Cap is never going away

And your solution would have meant goodbye South , Goodbye Ottawa/Buffalo/Winnipeg/St Louis/etc

Those teams couldn't compete without cap (Several having to be saved by NHL) they wouldn't be able to compete with uncapped league that allows Rangers/Flyers/Hawks/Leafs to spend 100M on rosters

I was sick and tired as a fan of seeing Oilers lose all there good players to FA before 04 lockout.. Everytime a star came up to FA they were gone to NY/PHi/etc

NHL was becoming like MLB ,, MLB is a joke with regards to the disparity between the big market and small market teams

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03-19-2013, 02:00 PM
  #296
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Not sure why everyone keeps using the term "pay cut," given Toews and Kane will make more money on their next contracts than their current ones no matter what they sign for. Definitely going to go for more than 6.3 each, so there's no cut. Just a smaller raise.

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03-19-2013, 02:05 PM
  #297
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The longer you sign them, the less the cap hit. If you sign Kane and Toews until their mid to late 30s, you will get a better AAV out of both, which is likely going to be identical.

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03-19-2013, 02:49 PM
  #298
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That was never happening.. Salary Cap is never going away

And your solution would have meant goodbye South , Goodbye Ottawa/Buffalo/Winnipeg/St Louis/etc

Those teams couldn't compete without cap (Several having to be saved by NHL) they wouldn't be able to compete with uncapped league that allows Rangers/Flyers/Hawks/Leafs to spend 100M on rosters

I was sick and tired as a fan of seeing Oilers lose all there good players to FA before 04 lockout.. Everytime a star came up to FA they were gone to NY/PHi/etc

NHL was becoming like MLB ,, MLB is a joke with regards to the disparity between the big market and small market teams

This is just completely untrue. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...olls-and-wins/

Of course there is some correlation, but it is hardly "a joke."

Red Sox, Cubs & Phillies were all not-so-good to terrible last year and have three of the largest payrolls. There were plenty of good teams on a budget (Braves, O's, Rays, A's).


Last edited by BronYrAur: 03-19-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 02:50 PM
  #299
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The longer you sign them, the less the cap hit. If you sign Kane and Toews until their mid to late 30s, you will get a better AAV out of both, which is likely going to be identical.
Yeah, obviously. Clearly they will be looking at max-length deals, which will almost certainly be near or at $9m per year.

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03-19-2013, 02:58 PM
  #300
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8 year, $9 mil/season will be a steal in 2015

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