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Habs - Wings Proposal

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Old
03-17-2005, 06:44 PM
  #1
Spooky371*
 
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Habs - Wings Proposal

To HABS : Derian Hatcher, Kirk Maltby.
To WINGS : 1st round pick 2005 (If have a draft), Tomas Plekanec, Niklas Sundstrom and Alexei Yemelin.

Wings make full of good prospect, receive a very good 3rd line player.
Habs receive a BIG defensman (what miss in defensive line up of canadiens) and big foward can play on PK. Pleky will never play at Montreal.

Yeah, no ?

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Old
03-17-2005, 06:53 PM
  #2
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No. hatcher is expensive, slow and definately on the decline. Not worth it.

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Old
03-17-2005, 06:55 PM
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Replace Yemelin by Archer and add 2M $ to MTL ?

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Old
03-17-2005, 08:10 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Spooky371
Replace Yemelin by Archer and add 2M $ to MTL ?
I don't even think hatcher is worth a 1st by himself.

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Old
03-17-2005, 09:51 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
I don't even think hatcher is worth a 1st by himself.
Maltby has some good value...hardly a trow-in.

I agree the deal favors Detroit a bit but if it could be reworked, it might be a good deal for both sides...

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Old
03-18-2005, 02:48 AM
  #6
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I don't like giving up on Maltby at all, he is a far superior version of Sundstrom, imo, but getting rid of Hatcher without paying any money is cool.
I believe it really depends on which players will get resigned by Detroit after the lockout as Maltby would leave a big hole in the lineup but on the whole I like this deal.

I dunno why Montreal would want Hatcher, though.

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Old
03-18-2005, 03:17 AM
  #7
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Considering we will likely have a salary cap, any deal involving Hatcher would have to have some matching big salaries going back to Detroit such as Brisebois and Craig Rivet. At that point it becomes a pointless deal to make from both perspectives. As it stands, it's a pointless deal from a Habs perspective. They get a whole lot older and expensive. I'd like to make a deal for Maltby if he was available, but want no part of Hatcher.

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Old
03-18-2005, 03:31 AM
  #8
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this deal dont work for Montreal !

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Old
03-18-2005, 08:20 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
No. hatcher is expensive, slow and definately on the decline. Not worth it.
How so? I can't really think of any players who looked good after missing much of the regular season due to a knee injury and then playing at the end of the season. I remember when Chelios had reconstructive and came back. He looked like crap when he did. Everyone said he was finished. Then he has a Norris trophy finalist season. He was much older than Hatcher is now.

The biggest deterrent with Hatcher is his contract. The no-trade clause wouldn't help much either. Its all gonna depend on who is available via free agency, trade, and waivers under the new cba. The Wings won't be in dire need of trading him either. They will most likely have cap room. (A lot of guys will be gone assuming a year of contracts is lost)

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Old
03-18-2005, 12:32 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by shadoz19
How so? I can't really think of any players who looked good after missing much of the regular season due to a knee injury and then playing at the end of the season. I remember when Chelios had reconstructive and came back. He looked like crap when he did. Everyone said he was finished. Then he has a Norris trophy finalist season. He was much older than Hatcher is now.

The biggest deterrent with Hatcher is his contract. The no-trade clause wouldn't help much either. Its all gonna depend on who is available via free agency, trade, and waivers under the new cba. The Wings won't be in dire need of trading him either. They will most likely have cap room. (A lot of guys will be gone assuming a year of contracts is lost)
So you honestly think hatcher looked the same comign back from his injury than his prime with the Stars? NOT EVEN CLOSE. The guy speed was down big time, as well as his mobility. I watched numerous times as speedy forwards would skate around him. If it wasn't for his long reach, the guy would have been a pylon. Hatcher of now is not the Hatcher of 2-3 years ago. Having a serious injury does not help at his age either.

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Old
03-18-2005, 12:32 PM
  #11
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Oh my God! He's older than 25! And he makes more than a million!

No No No No No! No Upside! Do you hear me? NO UPSIDE! Bwaaaaah!

*head explodes*

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Old
03-18-2005, 12:51 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
So you honestly think hatcher looked the same comign back from his injury than his prime with the Stars? NOT EVEN CLOSE. The guy speed was down big time, as well as his mobility. I watched numerous times as speedy forwards would skate around him. If it wasn't for his long reach, the guy would have been a pylon. Hatcher of now is not the Hatcher of 2-3 years ago. Having a serious injury does not help at his age either.

Reread my original comments. I did not say he looked the same. I said how many guys look like they did immediately returning from that type of knee injury in the same season. Can you name any that returned in the same season from that type of injury and looked the same? I can't name any. But look at Chelios, he had a similar injury and was much older. He looked like crap when he returned the same season. But he was much better the following season. Hatcher's knee was NOT 100%. It was pretty clear when he gave that as the reason for sitting out the World Cup.

My point in all this is don't be short sighted. Its a bit premature too say he is on the decline.

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Old
03-18-2005, 12:55 PM
  #13
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I would really like to have Hatcher on the Habs. Especially if it makes Gainey get rid of Brisebois.

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Old
03-18-2005, 01:18 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
I would really like to have Hatcher on the Habs. Especially if it makes Gainey get rid of Brisebois.
Brisebois contract is done now that the season is cancelled.

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Old
03-18-2005, 01:49 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by shadoz19
Reread my original comments. I did not say he looked the same. I said how many guys look like they did immediately returning from that type of knee injury in the same season. Can you name any that returned in the same season from that type of injury and looked the same? I can't name any. But look at Chelios, he had a similar injury and was much older. He looked like crap when he returned the same season. But he was much better the following season. Hatcher's knee was NOT 100%. It was pretty clear when he gave that as the reason for sitting out the World Cup.

My point in all this is don't be short sighted. Its a bit premature too say he is on the decline.
Hatcher career IS on the decline. His years are slowly getting worse now, that is CALLED a decline.

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Old
03-18-2005, 02:05 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Hatcher career IS on the decline. His years are slowly getting worse now, that is CALLED a decline.

Would you care to explain????

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/554/career

His numbers went up for the most part until he missed almost all of last season. He was a Norris trophy finalist the previous season. I don't see how one season which he missed most of means he is "on the decline". His previous seasons don't seem the back your statement up.

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Old
03-18-2005, 02:39 PM
  #17
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Watching him last year compared to the year before, he looked like a totally different player then his last year playing for the Stars compared to for the Wings.

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Old
03-18-2005, 04:53 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Watching him last year compared to the year before, he looked like a totally different player then his last year playing for the Stars compared to for the Wings.
And you keep ignoring the fact of his knee injury and the effects it may have had on his season. Considering the circumstances (serious injury, new team, etc.), how exactly did you expect him to look? To expect him to step in, appear entirely comfortable, and play at the top of his game would have been entirely unrealistic.

Wait until he gets to come back and plays a good 40-60 games with good health before deciding his career is failing; especially when there are better reasons to knock this trade (such as $$$).

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Old
03-18-2005, 06:05 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Winger98
And you keep ignoring the fact of his knee injury and the effects it may have had on his season. Considering the circumstances (serious injury, new team, etc.), how exactly did you expect him to look? To expect him to step in, appear entirely comfortable, and play at the top of his game would have been entirely unrealistic.

Wait until he gets to come back and plays a good 40-60 games with good health before deciding his career is failing; especially when there are better reasons to knock this trade (such as $$$).
How can you be so sure he will recover from the injury? I am basing it on past season performance. The injury was very serious and it really slowed him down last year. Hatcher wasn't very mobile to start of anyways.

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Old
03-18-2005, 06:57 PM
  #20
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With the fact that we have Souray, Komisarek and Rivet in our system, i dont see why we should get Hatcher? although a:

Souray-Komisarek
Hainsey-Hatcher
Markov-Rivet

would look real nice!

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Old
03-18-2005, 07:13 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel the great!
With the fact that we have Souray, Komisarek and Rivet in our system, i dont see why we should get Hatcher? although a:

Souray-Komisarek
Hainsey-Hatcher
Markov-Rivet

would look real nice!
If you remove Hainsey yeah.
I have make a good proposal, oh yeah.. I have make a good proposal, yeaaaaaaaaaah !

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Old
03-18-2005, 08:06 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky371
If you remove Hainsey yeah.
I have make a good proposal, oh yeah.. I have make a good proposal, yeaaaaaaaaaah !
not imo, the sundstrom/maltby thing is just needless.. the hatcher salary dump makes sense yes, but why downgrade from maltby on the third line to sundstrom, save 700K in doing that, but then add that 700K in plekanec (or however much he'd make..)

it's just a pointless part of the deal, imo scrap the maltby sundstrom thing and go from there if anything

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Old
03-18-2005, 10:58 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
How can you be so sure he will recover from the injury? I am basing it on past season performance. The injury was very serious and it really slowed him down last year. Hatcher wasn't very mobile to start of anyways.
I'm not saying he will return to his previous form; all I'm saying is that last season doesn't provide a fair sample to judge him with.

I wouldn't even quibble if you argued Montreal would hesitate on the deal until they saw more of Hatcher next season to be sure his knee is fine. My problem was with how definititively you state Hatcher's going downhill. He could be on the a definite downward slope, a combination of age and wear would make it very understandable. Or he could bounce back fine and be what people basically expect of him. He could arguably go either way.

Or, he could lose some mobility but not have his play greatly affected by it because, as you say, he was never very mobile anyway. He's always made his niche by being a big, mean and borderline player, and I doubt that will change regardless of how well he skates.

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Old
03-18-2005, 11:03 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Hatcher career IS on the decline. His years are slowly getting worse now, that is CALLED a decline.
How have they been getting worse? He had a great season in Dallas before he came to Detroit. Got hurt a couple games into his first season with the Wings and didn't play until playoffs and this year is cancelled? Not sure where there has been enough evidence to say he is been on decline.

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Old
03-18-2005, 11:11 PM
  #25
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before going after any defensemen via trade .. the habs management should look after the UFA market ..
it will cost less in terms of player(s) and pick(s) and improve our defense ...
so no for the deal ..
we could go after :
Foote,Niedermayer,Aucoin,Chelios,Ratjhe,etc... next year ... so why trade valuable asset when you can add for less ...

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