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Is Ed Belfour underrated?

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:02 PM
  #26
eddytheeagle20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
IMO, the next group down from Belfour are guys like Curtis Jospeh and Tom Barrasso. Maybe John Vanbiesbrouck. I think that Osgood and Khabibulin are another step down from those guys.
imo from 1990-2004

top teir
hasek,roy

second teir
belfour,brodeur,joseph, barasso,beezer

third teir
osgood, khabibulin,louongo

and before anyone gets mad brodeur dosnt enter the top teir till after the lockout

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:05 PM
  #27
FrozenJagrt
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I feel that Belfour was really in a tier of his own. As far as career performances, he's just below the big three and just above guys like Barrasso and Cujo, and after that you have your Osgoods and Richters.

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Old
03-12-2013, 04:06 PM
  #28
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 View Post
imo from 1990-2004

top teir
hasek,roy

second teir
belfour,brodeur,joseph, barasso,beezer

third teir
osgood, khabibulin,louongo

and before anyone gets mad brodeur dosnt enter the top teir till after the lockout
I thought Belfour and Brodeur were clearly above Joseph/Barrasso/Beezer at the point of the second lockout, and that Brodeur distanced himself from Belfour to after the lockout.

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03-12-2013, 04:21 PM
  #29
Rhiessan71
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I thought Belfour and Brodeur were clearly above Joseph/Barrasso/Beezer at the point of the second lockout, and that Brodeur distanced himself from Belfour to after the lockout.
Agreed.
Unlike the others, Marty and Eddie flirted with Roy/Hasek levels of play at times.

I didn't care for Belfour's personality much heh but he was a phenomenal goalie. Extremely aggressive, great technically and what is pretty rare for a goalie, he was an extremely good skater. He could skate backwards in his crouch as fast as most D-men could standing up.

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Old
03-12-2013, 06:39 PM
  #30
eddytheeagle20
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is there anywhere i could have the elite goallie mentioned above from the years 1990-2004 ranking their wins

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Old
03-12-2013, 06:59 PM
  #31
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 View Post
is there anywhere i could have the elite goallie mentioned above from the years 1990-2004 ranking their wins
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...y=games_played

I can't get a direct link that orders them by wins, but you can click on the "wins" column. Roy, Belfour, Brodeur, and Joseph are quite a bit ahead of everyone else during the time frame.

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Old
03-12-2013, 07:05 PM
  #32
nik jr
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Originally Posted by overg View Post
Belfour probably had as much talent as Brodeur, but for a good portion of his career he was known for making *really* costly blunders. He'd make 30 awesome saves to keep his team in the game, and then let in the game winning goal while slashing a player near the net. Or he'd misplay the puck right to an opponent when his defenseman was in perfect position to play it. Or whiff on a shot from the blue line. And these things always seemed to happen at the critical moments of games or playoff series. Stuff like that kept happening to him until he finally locked it down in Dallas.

Most goalies are nut-jobs, but Belfour's nuttiness often showed itself at the worst times, and thus his status among the all time greats isn't as high as it could have been.
'95 WCF may be the best example. he was excellent and kept chicago in the series, but allowed bad goals in OT to lidstrom and konstantinov.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i think belfour's chicago run, at least the first three or four years, was at a very high level. obviously, good enough to win two vezinas. but i don't think that was at the the standard that roy/hasek/brodeur put together for long stretches of their respective careers. more of a lundqvist vezina than a hasek (or even thomas) vezina, if you know what i mean. better than a kolzig or miller vezina, obviously, but still not quite at the highest level.

as i said earlier in this thread, i think belfour actually got to that level between '98 and 2000. but belfour doesn't have a defining stretch of his career (like roy '88-'93, hasek '94-'01, or brodeur '03-'08) where he lays his claim to being one of the greatest of all time. if he'd pushed that dallas run for just a couple more years, we might be talking about belfour vs. dryden or belfour vs. tretiak.

instead, belfour is still very good after the NJ stanley cup win in 2000, but to me that's when he dropped a level and became far and away the cream of the josephs/barrassos/beezers but still in that crop, instead of a guy who belonged in the discussion with roy/hasek/brodeur.
imo, belfour was as good with TML as with dallas, but dallas obviously protected him better. i thought belfour could have won the vezina in '03.

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Old
03-12-2013, 09:44 PM
  #33
eddytheeagle20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...y=games_played

I can't get a direct link that orders them by wins, but you can click on the "wins" column. Roy, Belfour, Brodeur, and Joseph are quite a bit ahead of everyone else during the time frame.
thank alot for the link according to that befour was second in wins but his gaa and sv% are not as good as haseks and close to brodeurs and potvin and kolzig were better then i thought and had better numbers then guys i had ranked ahead of them


back on topic during his career befour was the second or third best goalie in the leauge and for breif periods of time he was the best so hes eazily top ten all time for me

1.roy
2.hasek
3.brodeur
4.sawchuck
5.hall
6.Plante
7.belfour
8.broda
9.espisito
10.joseph

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:42 AM
  #34
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
imo, belfour was as good with TML as with dallas, but dallas obviously protected him better. i thought belfour could have won the vezina in '03.
i can't pretend that i remember the leafs in '03 super clearly, but i do remember having belfour as one of the vezina favourites at mid-year, but then he faded a bit in the second half.

but if he was just as good in toronto as dallas, does that mean his toronto years are underrated, or that his dallas years are overrated?

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:07 AM
  #35
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 View Post
1.roy
2.hasek
3.brodeur
4.sawchuck
5.hall
6.Plante
7.belfour
8.broda
9.espisito
10.joseph
Uh oh now ya done it. A list.... now, I love Belfour, he & Roy my favourites from the 80's through the 90's followed by Brodeur, Hasek & Joseph, but I wouldnt rank him that highly, 7th All Time Best. Bernie Parents' missing for starters, but hey, it is "your list" and if thats the way you calls it, see's it, Im cool. As Rhiessan stated earlier & I echoed, Belfour technically was excellent, aggressive, meticulous. I actually preferred him to Roy & Brodeur for quite some time when they too were playing extremely well, Ed's style, seeming preparedness just more akin to older school sensibilities than Roy or Brodeur. Joseph of course another interesting guy, Potvin briefly in Toronto, Mclean in Vancouver, Beezer, a lot of good ones around really, Belfour though, special. Absolutely.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:59 AM
  #36
eddytheeagle20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Uh oh now ya done it. A list.... now, I love Belfour, he & Roy my favourites from the 80's through the 90's followed by Brodeur, Hasek & Joseph, but I wouldnt rank him that highly, 7th All Time Best. Bernie Parents' missing for starters, but hey, it is "your list" and if thats the way you calls it, see's it, Im cool. As Rhiessan stated earlier & I echoed, Belfour technically was excellent, aggressive, meticulous. I actually preferred him to Roy & Brodeur for quite some time when they too were playing extremely well, Ed's style, seeming preparedness just more akin to older school sensibilities than Roy or Brodeur. Joseph of course another interesting guy, Potvin briefly in Toronto, Mclean in Vancouver, Beezer, a lot of good ones around really, Belfour though, special. Absolutely.
where would you rank belfour all time? just curious, i love to compare opinions on matters like this. i wish ranking the goalies was as easy as skaters. that's why i believe as the op of this thread said belfour is underrated. hes third all time in wins and not usually in peoples top 10 however, he could also be considered overrated because of the strong hawks team in the early 90's and a elite Dallas team that was a contender every year in the late 90's early 2000's.

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Old
03-13-2013, 02:38 AM
  #37
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 View Post
where would you rank belfour all time?
I assume youve seen this, Eddie ranked 15th by the participants here on hf?

12 Clint Benedict|5'11"|185|1892|1976|1912-1931|Canada
13 Walter "Turk" Broda|5'9"|165|1914|1972|1935-1951|Canada
14 Bill Durnan|6'0"|190|1916|1972|1944-1950|Canada
15 Ed Belfour|6'0|215|1965||1989-2008|Canada
16 Tony Esposito|5'11"|185|1943||1967-1984|Canada
17 Bernie Parent|5'10"|170|1945||1965-1979|Canada

Thats probably about right, though I have some issues with guys ahead of him who I dont think as highly of, one or three behind him who I think were better, the list obviously carrying on up to 40.


Last edited by Killion: 03-13-2013 at 02:44 AM.
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Old
03-13-2013, 06:13 PM
  #38
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... Im sure I wouldnt know Mr.Bonvie, though Taco's a bit worrisome. Between the Christopher Walken & Space Oddity avys I do wonder about that one from time-time.
I agree.

I had a lot more respect (fear for) him in the Walken era.

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Old
03-13-2013, 07:00 PM
  #39
Killion
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I agree. I had a lot more respect (fear for) him in the Walken era.
... ya, "I'd love to do a character with a wife, a nice little house, couple of kids, dog, maybe a bit of singing, and no guns and no killing.... but nobody offers me those kind of parts".

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03-13-2013, 11:13 PM
  #40
aemoreira1981
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
IMO, the next group down from Belfour are guys like Curtis Jospeh and Tom Barrasso. Maybe John Vanbiesbrouck. I think that Osgood and Khabibulin are another step down from those guys.
I'd actually put Cujo on Belfour's level; both were undrafted and Cujo's free agent signing had an effect on where Belfour began his professional career when both came out of the WCHA.

After the Hasek/Roy/Plante/Sawchuk/Brodeur/Dryden group, I'd rank Belfour with Cujo and Grant Fuhr.

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Old
03-13-2013, 11:37 PM
  #41
Morgoth Bauglir
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Space Oddity
Ground Control to Major Killion

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Old
03-14-2013, 03:01 AM
  #42
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Belfour had stretches where he was on par with the best (Roy, Brodeur..), no doubt about that. He is ranked behind them on the 4th place mostly because of their career value. Prime/peak is comparable to all of them.

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03-14-2013, 04:13 AM
  #43
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In the 90s for me it goes Hasek/Roy/Brodeur/Belfour/CuJo for Top 5. After that it'd probably be Irbe/Burke/Vernon/Osgood/Hackett/

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03-14-2013, 01:13 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Bobo420 View Post
Growing up young even as a habs fan in the early 90s, I was a bigger Belfour fan than a Roy fan oddly enough. I played goalie as a kid and was lucky enough to follow him during his epic rookie season, easily the most underrated goalie of his era by far.
HF rated him top 15 all-time. All-time. I'd like to introduce you to another goaltender who was also highly successful in the regular season and playoffs, but gets zero credit for his achievements (as evidenced by his placement, or lack thereof, on the goaltender list) I believe he's been mentioned.

Chris Osgood.
Like Belfour, he has some of the best regular season and playoff numbers of All-time. Like Belfour, he played his best years on top teams. Unlike Belfour, he gets no credit for what his team did.

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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
In the 90s for me it goes Hasek/Roy/Brodeur/Belfour/CuJo for Top 5. After that it'd probably be Irbe/Burke/Vernon/Osgood/Hackett/
Kolzig? Richter? Vanbiesbrouck? Barrasso? Khabibulin? Carey? Hebert? Potvin? All of those guys should definitely be in the list before Hackett. Probably should include McLean, Essensa, Hextall, Hrudey, Moog, Casey, Ranford, and Cheveldae as well.

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