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Old
03-07-2013, 12:49 AM
  #1
g3ryder
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What needs to change?

So what needs to change for this team to become a Stanley Cup contender again?

Here's my suggestion: rebuild.

This team isn't going anywhere, let's be honest. All they're doing is fighting to sneak in the playoffs, only to lose in the first round. Any one who says otherwise is delusional.

So to start, get rid of McLellan and Wilson. They've had their chance. The team has somehow gotten progressively worse over the last few years. And it's not getting any better any time soon. McLellan has no idea what his team is. They have absolutely zero identity. Are they a puck-possession team? Are they a dump-and-chase team? Are they a defense-first team? It seems to change every game. And the shuffling of the lines is ridiculous. Look around the league at the best teams in the league, and what do you see? Consistent lines. I think the Bruins have had the same lines going on 3 years now.

As for Wilson, he's just as much responsible for the regression of this team as McLellan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The Sharks have been doing the same thing for years and expecting things to get better. It hasn't and it won't. The "pro-cess" is just McLellan babble. There is no improvement, at all. Wilson is ultimately responsible for this stuck in neutral situation.

Now at this point, the Sharks have hamstrung themselves with the value of their players. Guys like Havlat, Marleau, Clowe, Thornton, Boyle have all had their trade values lowered significantly over the years, which means at this point that they won't find a trade partner, or the return will not be very good. This is the most frustrating thing about Doug Wilson. He's a completely reactive GM. There is 0 proactivity. Brad Stuart has played very well, but a 33 year old stay-at-home d-man was not gonna vault this team to a Stanley Cup. Why make that move? It's like he's fighting to stay mediocre. If you're gonna be bad, be really bad, get the draft picks and start over. There is no thinking ahead and making moves before they need to be made, only just fighting to stay alive. The one advantage with these players, and the one positive about Doug Wilson right now, is that he didn't hand out any of those long, front-loaded contracts. At least the team will have some cap flexibility going forward.

So my solution, player-wise, is simple: Shop everyone (aside from Couture, Pavelski, Vlasic, Burns, and Niemi). If you can get anywhere close to good value for these guys, specifically prospects or picks, pull the trigger. If not, their contracts will run out and the cap flexibility will kick in. The hard part about doing something like this is that the team is going to be bad for the next few years, but I personally can't watch mediocrity anymore, particularly from a team as talented as this. I would rather watch a bunch of third-liners play like animals for 60 minutes than watch Joe Thornton float around and make a pass to either no one or through 5 sticks. This is beyond frustrating, and changes need to be made. And I'm not talking about a trade here or there, I'm talking about a rebuild.

But that's just my 2 cents, what about yours?

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03-07-2013, 12:52 AM
  #2
TheJuxtaposer
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Trade Clowe, Murray, Boyle, Thornton. Don't aggressively trade Marleau or Pavelski, but make it known they're not untouchable.

Get ALL the picks in this draft.

Realistically, if we could get a package like Jordan Staal got (top-10 pick, young third liner, blue chip prospect) for Pavelski, I'd pull the trigger.

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03-07-2013, 12:53 AM
  #3
sjshark91
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Our top 9 forwards.

Clowe sucks, Havlat is useless and is always injured. Get some better second line forwards and a real 3rd line center and you're moving into a direction that is in my mind the right one.

Also get rid of Doug Wilson. Find a GM that doesn't try to copy every previous cup winner.

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Old
03-07-2013, 12:57 AM
  #4
Gene Parmesan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g3ryder View Post
So what needs to change for this team to become a Stanley Cup contender again?

Here's my suggestion: rebuild.

This team isn't going anywhere, let's be honest. All they're doing is fighting to sneak in the playoffs, only to lose in the first round. Any one who says otherwise is delusional.

So to start, get rid of McLellan and Wilson. They've had their chance. The team has somehow gotten progressively worse over the last few years. And it's not getting any better any time soon. McLellan has no idea what his team is. They have absolutely zero identity. Are they a puck-possession team? Are they a dump-and-chase team? Are they a defense-first team? It seems to change every game. And the shuffling of the lines is ridiculous. Look around the league at the best teams in the league, and what do you see? Consistent lines. I think the Bruins have had the same lines going on 3 years now.

As for Wilson, he's just as much responsible for the regression of this team as McLellan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The Sharks have been doing the same thing for years and expecting things to get better. It hasn't and it won't. The "pro-cess" is just McLellan babble. There is no improvement, at all. Wilson is ultimately responsible for this stuck in neutral situation.

Now at this point, the Sharks have hamstrung themselves with the value of their players. Guys like Havlat, Marleau, Clowe, Thornton, Boyle have all had their trade values lowered significantly over the years, which means at this point that they won't find a trade partner, or the return will not be very good. This is the most frustrating thing about Doug Wilson. He's a completely reactive GM. There is 0 proactivity. Brad Stuart has played very well, but a 33 year old stay-at-home d-man was not gonna vault this team to a Stanley Cup. Why make that move? It's like he's fighting to stay mediocre. If you're gonna be bad, be really bad, get the draft picks and start over. There is no thinking ahead and making moves before they need to be made, only just fighting to stay alive. The one advantage with these players, and the one positive about Doug Wilson right now, is that he didn't hand out any of those long, front-loaded contracts. At least the team will have some cap flexibility going forward.

So my solution, player-wise, is simple: Shop everyone (aside from Couture, Pavelski, Vlasic, Burns, and Niemi). If you can get anywhere close to good value for these guys, specifically prospects or picks, pull the trigger. If not, their contracts will run out and the cap flexibility will kick in. The hard part about doing something like this is that the team is going to be bad for the next few years, but I personally can't watch mediocrity anymore, particularly from a team as talented as this. I would rather watch a bunch of third-liners play like animals for 60 minutes than watch Joe Thornton float around and make a pass to either no one or through 5 sticks. This is beyond frustrating, and changes need to be made. And I'm not talking about a trade here or there, I'm talking about a rebuild.

But that's just my 2 cents, what about yours?
I'd shop Pavelski honestly. Hes a very good player.

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03-07-2013, 01:00 AM
  #5
g3ryder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
Our top 9 forwards.

Clowe sucks, Havlat is useless and is always injured. Get some better second line forwards and a real 3rd line center and you're moving into a direction that is in my mind the right one.

Also get rid of Doug Wilson. Find a GM that doesn't try to copy every previous cup winner.
The funniest/saddest part about this is that it literally goes from year to year.

When the Hawks won, he tried to get faster. Fail.

When the Bruins won, he tried to get tougher. Fail.

When the Kings won, he tried to stick with the program and get luckier. Looks like a fail.

Again, it's all reactive.

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03-07-2013, 01:05 AM
  #6
Arkansas Shark
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-Plattner fires Doug Wilson and TMac
-Trade Jumbo, Pavelski, Marleau, Clowe, Havlat and other notable uninspiring deadweight for young roster players and draft picks for the 2013 draft
-Hire a head coach that has a pair and that gets the team to play like they have one
-Bust out the M1 Abrams tank and draft Drouin, Barkov etc and rebuild the prospect pool
-If done correctly the Sharks will field a competitive team in the next 3-10 years
-Profit

/rant

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03-07-2013, 01:06 AM
  #7
sjshark91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansas Shark View Post
-Plattner fires Doug Wilson and TMac
-Trade Jumbo, Pavelski, Marleau, Clowe, Havlat and other notable uninspiring deadweight for young roster players and draft picks for the 2013 draft
-Hire a head coach that has a pair and that gets the team to play like they have one
-Bust out the M1 Abrams tank and draft Drouin, Barkov etc and rebuild the prospect pool
-If done correctly the Sharks will field a competitive team in the next 3-10 years
-Profit

/rant
The second bullet point.

Is it possible to score negative points?

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03-07-2013, 01:10 AM
  #8
Nighthock
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Coach and core

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03-07-2013, 01:10 AM
  #9
Mafoofoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansas Shark View Post
-Plattner fires Doug Wilson and TMac
-Trade Jumbo, Pavelski, Marleau, Clowe, Havlat and other notable uninspiring deadweight for young roster players and draft picks for the 2013 draft
-Hire a head coach that has a pair and that gets the team to play like they have one
-Bust out the M1 Abrams tank and draft Drouin, Barkov etc and rebuild the prospect pool
-If done correctly the Sharks will field a competitive team in the next 3-10 years
-Profit

/rant
So basically make one of the worst offenses even worse. Ok.

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03-07-2013, 01:10 AM
  #10
Pinkfloyd
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Let's keep this season in perspective though. To say they're done in the first round is jumping the gun. Look at how inconsistent they have been and look where they're at in the standings. They're still in 5th. After Chicago and Anaheim, everyone else is playing just as inconsistently as them and some are worse. They absolutely can get into the playoffs and win a round. Now obviously that's not the goal of the team but a rebuild is not the answer based off of a shortened season where if they were as bad as they looked tonight, they'd be out of the playoff picture by a mile but they aren't.

They're going to have to cut salary one way or the other next season but their problems are many in terms of what needs to change. They need a new GM mostly so that they can bring in new people for the scouting and developing. They need a new coach who knows how to handle star players better and has patience and intelligence with how to handle depth players that are limited. They need a new captain to lead his teammates better.

The biggest thing is that the entire organization needs to be a hell of a lot more accountable to themselves. And accountability is more than just taking the blame for some adversity. It's actually following through on the action plan to make yourself better instead of making the same mistakes repeatedly.

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03-07-2013, 01:10 AM
  #11
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Keep the players and coach, fire the GM.

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03-07-2013, 01:12 AM
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TheJuxtaposer
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Acquire every single pick in the top-6 of this years draft.

Mackinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan. And go.

Drouin-Mackinnon-XXX
XXX-Barkov-Lindholm
XXX-Monahan-XXX

XXX-Jones
XXX-XXX

Fill in the rest with scrubs. Stanley Cup, here we come.

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03-07-2013, 01:13 AM
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g3ryder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjshark91 View Post
The second bullet point.

Is it possible to score negative points?
I can't think of a guy playing worse than Ryane Clowe right now, so I guess you can say that it is possible. Penalties, turnovers, bad defensive coverage, doesn't stand in front of the net, doesn't score. Can a guy possibly play any worse? People around HFBoards love him, too bad the league's GMs aren't posters on this site.

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03-07-2013, 01:15 AM
  #14
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One word: everything

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03-07-2013, 01:17 AM
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TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
So basically make one of the worst offenses even worse. Ok.
Sheppard-Couture-Wingels
Galiardi-Gomez-Kennedy
Kearns-Handzus-Desjardins
Burish-Matisumoto-Reid

#1 offensive team in the league, baby.

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03-07-2013, 01:18 AM
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g3ryder
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Let's keep this season in perspective though. To say they're done in the first round is jumping the gun. Look at how inconsistent they have been and look where they're at in the standings. They're still in 5th. After Chicago and Anaheim, everyone else is playing just as inconsistently as them and some are worse. They absolutely can get into the playoffs and win a round. Now obviously that's not the goal of the team but a rebuild is not the answer based off of a shortened season where if they were as bad as they looked tonight, they'd be out of the playoff picture by a mile but they aren't.

They're going to have to cut salary one way or the other next season but their problems are many in terms of what needs to change. They need a new GM mostly so that they can bring in new people for the scouting and developing. They need a new coach who knows how to handle star players better and has patience and intelligence with how to handle depth players that are limited. They need a new captain to lead his teammates better.

The biggest thing is that the entire organization needs to be a hell of a lot more accountable to themselves. And accountability is more than just taking the blame for some adversity. It's actually following through on the action plan to make yourself better instead of making the same mistakes repeatedly.
My issue with this line of thinking is that it's settling for mediocrity. The goal isn't to win a round in the playoffs. At some point during these past 5 years or so, this team should've been to a Stanley Cup. They haven't. Even for this team, a first round win is setting the bar way way too low. That's why I say be proactive now. Make the changes that need to be made, even if they're unpopular. When the Bruins got rid of Thornton, everyone thought it was a terrible deal. Several years later, they win the Cup. There was proactivity in that management. Not so much here.

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03-07-2013, 01:18 AM
  #17
Arkansas Shark
Rebuild lol
 
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
So basically make one of the worst offenses even worse. Ok.
I may be in the minority, but I'm advocating a total slash and burn/scorched earth method. Get this team younger, faster, cheaper and more depth.

Basically trade everyone but Couture, Vlasic, Stuart and Burns.

It will be painful to watch initially, but the franchise will be better off long term.

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03-07-2013, 01:19 AM
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sjshark91
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Change what ever happened after game 6 of this season. There.

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03-07-2013, 01:20 AM
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TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by Arkansas Shark View Post
I may be in the minority, but I'm advocating a total slash and burn/scorched earth method. Get this team younger, faster, cheaper and more depth.

Basically trade everyone but Couture, Vlasic, Stuart and Burns.

It will be painful to watch initially, but the franchise will be better off long term.
It's fun to think about, but how often does that happen? The most insane off-season in recent times was the Richards/Carter debacle. And that was Holmgren.

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03-07-2013, 01:20 AM
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g3ryder
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
So basically make one of the worst offenses even worse. Ok.
They're pretty bad right now anyway. I'm not gonna say ever, but even with those guys, they're awful. Changes need to be made. Even if, like I said, they're unpopular.

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03-07-2013, 01:25 AM
  #21
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Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
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Bench Murray.

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Old
03-07-2013, 01:26 AM
  #22
Arkansas Shark
Rebuild lol
 
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
It's fun to think about, but how often does that happen? The most insane off-season in recent times was the Richards/Carter debacle. And that was Holmgren.
Just like NHL 13 but real life though!

The players not only need to be canned, but the coaching staff and the entire front office.

Just start over and try again. Sigh

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03-07-2013, 01:27 AM
  #23
OrrNumber4
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I disagree that this team has gotten worse over the past couple of years. This team has gotten worse over the past year-and-a-half.

Some of that appears to be coaching. Like the post 2010 Capitals; the Sharks are just not playing a style that suits them.

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03-07-2013, 01:27 AM
  #24
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
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Bench Murray.
Bench Murray.
This a hundred times.

It seems very clear to me that Murray shouldn't get any ice time this year. SJ also has plenty of other options. Why does Tmac continue to play him?

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Old
03-07-2013, 01:28 AM
  #25
TheJuxtaposer
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I disagree that this team has gotten worse over the past couple of years. This team has gotten worse over the past year-and-a-half.

Some of that appears to be coaching. Like the post 2010 Capitals; the Sharks are just not playing a style that suits them.
That's why I'm rooting for the Flyers to implode, even though I like them, because I want Laviolette.

The funny thing is, McLellan didn't start out as a defensive coach. I'm confused as to how he turned into one...

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