HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Alain Vigneault/coaching discussion thread - Part 4

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2013, 12:04 AM
  #751
David71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,519
vCash: 500
a.v does not know when to put the dagger in the hearts of the opponents. no killer instinct. always "sit back keep lead in the third and pray.

David71 is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:06 AM
  #752
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 21,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David71 View Post
a.v does not know when to put the dagger in the hearts of the opponents. no killer instinct. always "sit back keep lead in the third and pray.
You can't always force your way when the other team is chasing but you can do more than get it in deep and change. You need to forecheck aggressively and try to keep the puck in the offensive zone, just be safer about pinching and have the centre hang up high in the offensive zone instead of down low.

Tiranis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:07 AM
  #753
BC Boy
Registered User
 
BC Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 239
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyRabbit View Post
Typical AV "defend the lead" coaching again in the 3rd period today.

Thank god we managed to escape with a "W".
This, had it not been for that late power play, I'm pretty confident in saying the Blues would have tied it up. That was one of the worst coached 3rd periods of Canucks hockey I've ever seen. It's on the players to hustle harder, but jeeze, absolutely no strategy other than desperately get the puck out when ever possible.

BC Boy is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:20 AM
  #754
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,218
vCash: 500
I was really pleased with his line-up decisions tonight.

Although the near collapse was alarming.

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:38 AM
  #755
Catamarca Livin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,137
vCash: 500
Scheoder, and Henrik played well along with the goalie. If the goalie and the centers play well AV will look like a lot smarter coach.

I agree that our d should be a strength but it is a lot easier playing d in the offensive zone. With centers playing well, and even winning faceoffs this happens a lot more. Ballard just is not a good d man, he skates himself into trouble more than out of it. He refuses to make a short pass. Bieska is a wreak also but he comes around during playoff time. Edler is good offense, poor defense. Really Garrison and Tanev are the only two i have confidence in right now. Hamhuis is up and down at the moment.

Catamarca Livin is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:42 AM
  #756
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 20,934
vCash: 50
With Hamhuis you have to think he's injured or something because it's hard to see the mental side of his game just disappearing.

me2 is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 01:16 AM
  #757
jigsaw99
Registered User
 
jigsaw99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,350
vCash: 500
that defend the lead in the 3rd was so predictable today lol.
CAnucks are so bad defending leads...

jigsaw99 is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:08 AM
  #758
mossey3535
Registered User
 
mossey3535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
With Hamhuis you have to think he's injured or something because it's hard to see the mental side of his game just disappearing.
To be honest I think the whole defence corps is suffering from "Are you kidding I have to get the crap beaten out of me just so our wingers can screw up the zone breakout" syndrome. Most of the league is using a real heavy forecheck, and our system is already demanding of d-men.

Think about it. Here are the most common scenarios I see when we 'sit back':

-Puck in zone. Defencemen take hits to get puck to half wall. Winger screws up clear. Hemmed in own zone for significant length of time.
-Puck in zone. Defencemen take hits to chip puck out of zone. Opposing team regains possession in neutral zone, they come back in and dump and chase...where they hit our D again.
-Breakout. Defencemen under heavy forecheck. Stretch tip-in which we usually don't recover. Opposing team has whole length of ice to come in. Guess what? They hit our D.

Essentially the D does almost all the work - they make the breakout, they do most of the recoveries, they pinch, they're the ones getting hit. They make all the reads as well, usually under pressure. A shift for a Canucks winger often consists of flying the d-zone as soon as we get possession, standing still at the red line to tip it in, chasing it into the o-zone and then skating back and probably ending their shift. It's not that demanding.

Our wingers are usually counted on to make NO complex decisions - that's left to the defencemen. This is to say nothing of their role on our PP and PK. It's easy to look bad when asked to do so much if you are even slightly off your game. We're extremely demanding on our defence corps and I just think that this is when it's catching up a little.


Last edited by mossey3535: 03-20-2013 at 05:20 AM.
mossey3535 is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:16 AM
  #759
vanuck
Griffiths Way Goons
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
To be honest I think the whole defence corps is suffering from "Are you kidding I have to get the crap beaten out of me just so our wingers can screw up the zone breakout." syndrome Most of the league is using a real heavy forecheck, and our system is already demanding of d-men.
Yeah, as soon as we start facing even a 2-man forecheck we run into trouble a lot of the time. You can imagine how much worse it gets in the playoffs when every forechecker is trying to become a heat-seeking missile. As long as the poor puck support continues - and factor in Vancouver's travel - it's simply not sustainable.

vanuck is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:43 AM
  #760
mossey3535
Registered User
 
mossey3535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
Also, Boudreau was on FAN590 today. When asked about what he's done to help the team get off to their great start he said:

Quote:
I think being new, they still pay attention to everything you say. It may sound silly but after awhile, you know after a few years sometimes with the same old voice...they keep going yeah yeah yeah. But right now they're still paying really good attention and they really do not like to lose.
It's just time, guys.

mossey3535 is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #761
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,278
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Courtesy of Hockey Widow. It appears that some of the players are getting tired of AV, as well as being bothered by the loss of key players and how certain players were treated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyWidow
There was always a belief that they were good enough on any given night to compete and to win. That feeling has not returned since the loss to Boston. At first players shrugged it off as the Stanley Cup hangover. I think now they are seeing that it is more than that.

One of the complaints "some" players had in the past was the constant line juggling, not getting set with line mates. AV always responded that good players can play anywhere and flexibility was important. I think AV may be sensing that he is losing the dressing room. More than a few players want a fresh change behind the bench.

Players wanted Salo back. No offer from the Canucks. Players wanted Mitchell back. Canucks offer not close to the LA offer. Players have been stung by what happened to Manny.

I think the Canucks right now are playing disorganized helter skelter hockey. It goes deeper than Kesler being hurt and not enough centres. Players have been, in one way or another, preparing for Luongo to be traded all season. That wears on the team. He is popular in the dressing room and I think that is taking a mental toll at this point.

A friend of mine was out drinking with a few of the players on the weekend and the complaint was that there was no will or belief that they could win. It was gone. A prolonged Cup hangover perhaps. This team was devastated when they lost game 7, they expected to win, they thought they had it. I just don't think they have recovered from that and now every loss is just amplified.

I haven't heard that there are any major dressing room issues or chemistry issues. The team we saw go to game 7 was a group of players that liked each other, hung together and were close. Over time that has eroded due to trades, players leaving via FA, but that is normal business as usual for hockey teams.

A 5 game winning streak would change a lot for this team right now.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:24 PM
  #762
Momesso
Registered User
 
Momesso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Courtesy of Hockey Widow. It appears that some of the players are getting tired of AV, as well as being bothered by the loss of key players and how certain players were treated.
Obviously after 7 years, some of the players would want a fresh voice in the room. This is just the nature of the game. No coach can last forever.

But some of the issues mentioned by HW above are obviously Gillis' doing.

In Salo's case, IMO the right decision was made - he's old and brittle, and I'd take Garrison over him anytime at this stage of their relative careers. Losing Mitchell obviously was a big blow (for me anyways) because I'd always thought he'd wear the "C" here.

Momesso is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #763
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Courtesy of Hockey Widow. It appears that some of the players are getting tired of AV, as well as being bothered by the loss of key players and how certain players were treated.
The team looks to get along just fine.

The coaches voice may be stale, but I don't think they're is a divide in the room.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:37 PM
  #764
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 21,593
vCash: 500
I can see wanting a fresh voice, but I doubt the players are that upset over the loss of Salo or Mitchell as HockeyWidow is implying. Most teams have a decent amount of turnover over the years. Losing two well-liked guys is not exactly out of the ordinary. Not to mention how popular the guys that replaced them have been. Garrison and Hamhuis both seem really well liked.

I do feel like some of the things AV has been doing recently are going to make it difficult for him to maintain grasp on the room. Push-ups for screwing up on PP in practice? Calling out his team's chemistry to the media? Complaining about the goaltending publicly after it saved his ass countless times in his tenure here? He has a real tendency to stick his foot in his mouth.

Tiranis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #765
Alan Jackson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,575
vCash: 500
I mentioned this in the GDT, but I'm starting to see a bit of a similarity between this group and the 07/08 team.

There's a reluctance for the Canucks to set the tone - we seem to be reacting to the opponent rather than the other way round. Not aggresive enough, too passive with leads, too reliant on great goaltending to earn points.

Unless the PP suddenly heats up, I think this team is going to have a real tough time making the playoffs, nevermind winning a Cup.

I think we need a new coach, but Gillis isn't blameless either. He needs to add to this group if there's going to be any type of run. This team isnt good enough, especially under this coaching staff.

Depending on how the next 2 weeks go, the Canucks should at least consider calling it a season, get something for the likes of Higgins, Raymond and Lapierre and start fresh in the summer.

Alan Jackson is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #766
The Horvatian One
228 LBS of Pain
 
The Horvatian One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I can see wanting a fresh voice, but I doubt the players are that upset over the loss of Salo or Mitchell as HockeyWidow is implying. Most teams have a decent amount of turnover over the years. Losing two well-liked guys is not exactly out of the ordinary. Not to mention how popular the guys that replaced them have been. Garrison and Hamhuis both seem really well liked.

I do feel like some of the things AV has been doing recently are going to make it difficult for him to maintain grasp on the room. Push-ups for screwing up on PP in practice? Calling out his team's chemistry to the media? Complaining about the goaltending publicly after it saved his ass countless times in his tenure here? He has a real tendency to stick his foot in his mouth.
Mitchell especially...we didn't even go to the SCF with him. Not sure how that one stung the team as much as she thinks.

The Horvatian One is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:44 PM
  #767
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 21,642
vCash: 500
Losing Mitchell was tough (not made any easier when he lifted up the Cup a few years later) but remember to that even if you ignored the very serious injury he suffered (through no fault of his own - can't do much if Malkin gives you a cheapshot crosscheck head first into the boards), he also had issues staying healthy. There was no way of knowing whether he'd be able to even play the game again.

Hard to give a contract to him that was as good as the Kings given the brittle nature of our blueline at the time (the thing that likely did us in at least one playoff round). The Kings could afford to take that chance at the time.

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 12:48 PM
  #768
luongo321
Registered User
 
luongo321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 11,104
vCash: 50
After Salo was taken out by Marchand and our team did nothing about it (sure, chara was guarding him), I'm glad that he went and got his pay day by the lightning. Salo doesn't deserve to have to take such a paycut to play for this canucks team. I think MG sorta realizes that too. Besides Salo's injuries, I'm sure MG is glad that Salo is getting some good money.

luongo321 is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 02:53 PM
  #769
Wolfhard
Registered User
 
Wolfhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
After Salo was taken out by Marchand and our team did nothing about it (sure, chara was guarding him), I'm glad that he went and got his pay day by the lightning. Salo doesn't deserve to have to take such a paycut to play for this canucks team. I think MG sorta realizes that too. Besides Salo's injuries, I'm sure MG is glad that Salo is getting some good money.
Pretty sure Salo was offered the same 1 yr contract as he'd just played for, and it was a standing offer (similar to Lidstrom?). Every year, they had a 1 yr offer for him if he wanted it. TB offered him not just money, but a 2 yr contract to retire on. The Canucks would not commit to 2 years. So it's not like Gillis didn't offer him anything and pushed him out the door.

Wolfhard is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 02:56 PM
  #770
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
The Modfather
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,951
vCash: 500
I'm sure the players wanted Salo and Mitchell retained - both were good players on the ice and in the room - but I find it difficult to stomach that the team's on-ice difficulties are a result of a period of prolonged sulking about those two decisions.

Mr. Canucklehead is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 02:59 PM
  #771
tantalum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 11,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Losing Mitchell was tough (not made any easier when he lifted up the Cup a few years later) but remember to that even if you ignored the very serious injury he suffered (through no fault of his own - can't do much if Malkin gives you a cheapshot crosscheck head first into the boards), he also had issues staying healthy. There was no way of knowing whether he'd be able to even play the game again.

Hard to give a contract to him that was as good as the Kings given the brittle nature of our blueline at the time (the thing that likely did us in at least one playoff round). The Kings could afford to take that chance at the time.
And Mitchell really said the same thing. He understood why teams were reluctant to give him an offer at all let alone a substantial one so when the LA one came along while his future was still very much unclear, he couldn't help but sign it.

tantalum is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 03:00 PM
  #772
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 21,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfhard View Post
Pretty sure Salo was offered the same 1 yr contract as he'd just played for, and it was a standing offer (similar to Lidstrom?). Every year, they had a 1 yr offer for him if he wanted it. TB offered him not just money, but a 2 yr contract to retire on. The Canucks would not commit to 2 years. So it's not like Gillis didn't offer him anything and pushed him out the door.
Especially since Salo was 35+ years old (so if he decided to retire after one year - which is always a realistic possibility as he pondered that question even during his time here - the team giving a multi-year deal will STILL be on the hook for the cap hit).

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 03:12 PM
  #773
Momesso
Registered User
 
Momesso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I'm sure the players wanted Salo and Mitchell retained - both were good players on the ice and in the room - but I find it difficult to stomach that the team's on-ice difficulties are a result of a period of prolonged sulking about those two decisions.
Me too. So if we discount that, what remains is that AV is probably sounding more and more like Charlie Brown's teacher in the dressing room.

Momesso is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 03:27 PM
  #774
Stories Tales Lies
and Exaggerations
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,808
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
Me too. So if we discount that, what remains is that AV is probably sounding more and more like Charlie Brown's teacher in the dressing room.
Thats not news though, people around here have been speculating that for a while, I don't see why HW and her saying...

Quote:
I think AV may be sensing that he is losing the dressing room
holds more water then you or I or samjam saying it.

The only source quoted says

Quote:
A friend of mine was out drinking with a few of the players on the weekend and the complaint was that there was no will or belief that they could win. It was gone. A prolonged Cup hangover perhaps. This team was devastated when they lost game 7, they expected to win, they thought they had it.
Well no **** they were devastated by the SCF, and yea the team has lacks the confidence that they can win every game, that is because the way they are playing at the moment, they cant.

and WTF dose this mean

Quote:
One of the complaints "some" players had in the past was the constant line juggling
what players?, and when were the complaints?, this year? lats year? the, year before that?

Stories Tales Lies is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 03:29 PM
  #775
mossey3535
Registered User
 
mossey3535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I'm sure the players wanted Salo and Mitchell retained - both were good players on the ice and in the room - but I find it difficult to stomach that the team's on-ice difficulties are a result of a period of prolonged sulking about those two decisions.
Yes, but I think it helps the credibility of the account. If you sit down and talk with some individuals they're just going to spill on what bothers them. And I'm sure they weren't happy about Salo and Mitchell leaving. I don't think that's what is ailing the team, but it sounds like what a teammate would say when asked about what they don't like about the team - their friends leaving.

Personally I think there is something to the Mitchell thing considering how AV handled that in the press. A player might not sulk but it might lead them to maybe tune him out a little. Then when results aren't there, it might be easier to tune him out a lot.

mossey3535 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.