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Alain Vigneault/coaching discussion thread - Part 4

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Old
03-21-2013, 05:37 PM
  #826
Tiranis
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^ Bandits also won Championships in both years.

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03-21-2013, 05:46 PM
  #827
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^ Bandits also won Championships in both years.
updated, thanks.

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03-21-2013, 07:12 PM
  #828
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There is no evidence that the reason why this team is faltering is the fact that AV called out Wellwood, O'Brien and co. publicly. Anyone who suggests that is ignoring the fact that this team has one top 9 NHL centre...ONE!

And the way that guys like Hamhuis and Edler and Bieksa have played, along with hot and cold goaltending, its hard to put it on the coach.


I do accept the notion that maybe its time for a change and that you can't fire players or gm's as easily as a coach, but those on here suggesting that AV has never done anything positive for this organization, that the players all despise him, and that he deserves no credit, and is a "terrible" coach are completely off your rockers.

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03-21-2013, 07:15 PM
  #829
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theres literally only one reasonable set of actions that results in a new coach and it's firing AV if this team disappoints in the playoffs. anyone who suggests otherwise should probably be ignored

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03-21-2013, 07:36 PM
  #830
John Swartzwelder
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What if D. Tippet gets fired in the offseason and GMMG hires him? How mad are you?

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03-21-2013, 08:42 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
theres literally only one reasonable set of actions that results in a new coach and it's firing AV if this team disappoints in the playoffs. anyone who suggests otherwise should probably be ignored
Disappoint in the playoffs? They already did that ... last season.

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03-21-2013, 08:47 PM
  #832
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Disappoint in the playoffs? They already did that ... last season.
AVs merits as a coach will be solely based in the playoffs. He has shown himself to be a great regular season coach and that is not erased by a bad stretch of 30ish games of hockey. That's just over a quarter of a normal season.

I am one of AVs fans, but even I will say if we make another early exit in the playoffs this year it is probably time to look at changing direction.

That's a while off

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03-21-2013, 08:56 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
AVs merits as a coach will be solely based in the playoffs. He has shown himself to be a great regular season coach and that is not erased by a bad stretch of 30ish games of hockey. That's just over a quarter of a normal season.

I am one of AVs fans, but even I will say if we make another early exit in the playoffs this year it is probably time to look at changing direction.

That's a while off
IMO all things need to be considered, even things we don't know about, I also believe that the people that have to make the decision will do there best to make the right one, whatever they choose, but that may be just my naive innocence

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03-21-2013, 09:07 PM
  #834
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IMO all things need to be considered, even things we don't know about, I also believe that the people that have to make the decision will do there best to make the right one, whatever they choose, but that may be just my naive innocence
I trust Gillis to make the right decision in regards to coaching. He has really earned my respect in that way. Coaches are fired way too often in the NHL and often times it makes no sense or difference.

It's really easy for a GM to succumb to the "off with his head" mentality of many fans because of a bad stretch of games. The fans often don't account for or care about the greater circumstances, they want change for change sake because the team isn't winning at a given time.

It's also really easy for a GM to fire a coach when his personnel moves aren't working out to save his own butt and take the criticism away from them.

Either way you cut it, it is admirable how Gillis has conducted himself in regards to his coach. I am sure if and when the day comes to make a change candidates will see and appreciate that in Vancouver we don't sacrifice a coach to the hockey gods every time things don't go our way.

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03-21-2013, 09:23 PM
  #835
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Really... a 'STRONG' argument? A 'VERY STRONG' argument?

I would think AV's accomplishments in the NHL (best league in the world as I recall) render the majority of Coopers mute.
Yeah, I'd say so. Just because a coach is accomplished in the NHL doesn't mean he's better than every coach who hasn't been given that opportunity.

Cooper has exhibited unprecedented success as a junior/minor league coach. He's coached for three different franchises and turned every one into a championship team within two years. Two of them were non-playoff teams when he took over. He's won 4 championships in 6 years and his current team is the favourite to win the AHL crown again, which would make it 5 in 7.

Last year his AHL team set a professional hockey record with 28 consecutive wins, shattering the previous record of 17. Some of his AHL players have made the NHL jump this year and have been among the best players on Tampa in their time with the team. Conacher (undrafted), Killorn (3rd round pick), and Palat (7th round pick) have slid into top 9 roles with the Lightning without looking out of place like most rookies do.

Vigneault is the best coach in our franchise's history, but he's no Scotty Bowman. His system has looked entirely predictable all year as the team has struggled breaking through the neutral zone in 90% of their games. The stretch pass has become predictable and is being forced, teams continually cheat on our zone entry because they know the players aren't allowed to take the puck to the middle of the ice, and worst of all is AV's insistence on turtling whenever they have the lead.

By all means Vigneault has earned the right to finish the season, but his past success is in no means a guarantee he's still the best coach for this team.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:25 PM
  #836
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Disappoint in the playoffs? They already did that ... last season.
the thing you want isnt going to happen though, so deal with it, i guess?

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:48 PM
  #837
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the thing you want isnt going to happen though, so deal with it, i guess?
I disagree. So, deal with it, I guess?

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03-21-2013, 09:48 PM
  #838
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If Cooper were really that good, do you think Lightnings will let him take a coaching position with other NHL team considering the way their season is going?

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:59 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by TheCanuckInOttawa View Post
If Cooper were really that good, do you think Lightnings will let him take a coaching position with other NHL team considering the way their season is going?
Tough to say. They had a pretty miserable season last year and still let him interview with multiple NHL teams about their HC openings. I believe he met with both Edmonton and Washington, and there might have been more that are escaping my mind.

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03-21-2013, 10:15 PM
  #840
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If Cooper were really that good, do you think Lightnings will let him take a coaching position with other NHL team considering the way their season is going?
It's not like Boucher is a bad coach. Took them to the ECF the one year he actually had decent goaltending. They're the highest scoring team in the league right now, would be doing better with some half-decent goaltending.

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Old
03-21-2013, 10:33 PM
  #841
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Tough to say. They had a pretty miserable season last year and still let him interview with multiple NHL teams about their HC openings. I believe he met with both Edmonton and Washington, and there might have been more that are escaping my mind.

I wonder why Edmonton did not hire him. Maybe he didn't want to go to Edmonton after meeting their management team



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's not like Boucher is a bad coach. Took them to the ECF the one year he actually had decent goaltending. They're the highest scoring team in the league right now, would be doing better with some half-decent goaltending.

Let's hire either Boucher or Cooper in the off-season

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Old
03-22-2013, 12:18 AM
  #842
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I disagree. So, deal with it, I guess?
well, lets keep score

AV still has his job. me: 1, you: 0

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Old
03-22-2013, 12:23 AM
  #843
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's not like Boucher is a bad coach. Took them to the ECF the one year he actually had decent goaltending. They're the highest scoring team in the league right now, would be doing better with some half-decent goaltending.
Can't fault Boucher for what StevieY has handed him.

I can't believe Cooper isn't somewhere like Edmonton by now. That team seems perfect for him given how well he's achieved with young talent.

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Old
03-22-2013, 12:24 AM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
I trust Gillis to make the right decision in regards to coaching. He has really earned my respect in that way. Coaches are fired way too often in the NHL and often times it makes no sense or difference.

It's really easy for a GM to succumb to the "off with his head" mentality of many fans because of a bad stretch of games. The fans often don't account for or care about the greater circumstances, they want change for change sake because the team isn't winning at a given time.

It's also really easy for a GM to fire a coach when his personnel moves aren't working out to save his own butt and take the criticism away from them.

Either way you cut it, it is admirable how Gillis has conducted himself in regards to his coach. I am sure if and when the day comes to make a change candidates will see and appreciate that in Vancouver we don't sacrifice a coach to the hockey gods every time things don't go our way.
That bad stretch is around a year and a bit. And even people looking in from the outside have noticed that something is wrong with the team. I don't think it's personnel because we've only really changed complementary guys since 2010. So, time to thank AV for the PT's and let him go.

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Old
03-22-2013, 12:25 AM
  #845
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Originally Posted by TheCanuckInOttawa View Post
I wonder why Edmonton did not hire him. Maybe he didn't want to go to Edmonton after meeting their management team
"Great young team, plenty of talent for you to mold"
"Sounds good"
"We're also bringing in some more heavy hitting thinkers too"
"Oh nice, who?"
"Howson"
*CLICK*

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Old
03-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #846
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Can't fault Boucher for what StevieY has handed him.

I can't believe Cooper isn't somewhere like Edmonton by now. That team seems perfect for him given how well he's achieved with young talent.
See, this is the difference. If the entire Lightning roster is healthy, it doesn't come close to us even with Kesler out. I don't believe you can say that AV has had a bad hand here at any time in the last couple of years.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:07 AM
  #847
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Yeah, I'd say so. Just because a coach is accomplished in the NHL doesn't mean he's better than every coach who hasn't been given that opportunity.

Cooper has exhibited unprecedented success as a junior/minor league coach. He's coached for three different franchises and turned every one into a championship team within two years. Two of them were non-playoff teams when he took over. He's won 4 championships in 6 years and his current team is the favourite to win the AHL crown again, which would make it 5 in 7.

Last year his AHL team set a professional hockey record with 28 consecutive wins, shattering the previous record of 17. Some of his AHL players have made the NHL jump this year and have been among the best players on Tampa in their time with the team. Conacher (undrafted), Killorn (3rd round pick), and Palat (7th round pick) have slid into top 9 roles with the Lightning without looking out of place like most rookies do.

Vigneault is the best coach in our franchise's history, but he's no Scotty Bowman. His system has looked entirely predictable all year as the team has struggled breaking through the neutral zone in 90% of their games. The stretch pass has become predictable and is being forced, teams continually cheat on our zone entry because they know the players aren't allowed to take the puck to the middle of the ice, and worst of all is AV's insistence on turtling whenever they have the lead.

By all means Vigneault has earned the right to finish the season, but his past success is in no means a guarantee he's still the best coach for this team.
Well stated, I feel the same way.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:47 AM
  #848
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Last year his AHL team set a professional hockey record with 28 consecutive wins, shattering the previous record of 17. Some of his AHL players have made the NHL jump this year and have been among the best players on Tampa in their time with the team. Conacher (undrafted), Killorn (3rd round pick), and Palat (7th round pick) have slid into top 9 roles with the Lightning without looking out of place like most rookies do.
Hmm, 28 just happens to be my lucky number (even though I'm not superstitious). It must be meant to be. Make it so, Gillis.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:51 AM
  #849
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I hope they hire Lindy Ruff on this team he will probably get to the Canucks heads probs will never happen.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:57 AM
  #850
Back in 94
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I hope they hire Lindy Ruff on this team he will probably get to the Canucks heads probs will never happen.
No thanks to Ruff. AV has done just as much if not more in less years than Ruff did his entire tenure with the Sabres.

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