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Alain Vigneault/coaching discussion thread - Part 4

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Old
03-23-2013, 02:17 PM
  #901
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It's starting to look more and more like Cooper won't be available. Tampa is baaad with Boucher.

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03-23-2013, 02:19 PM
  #902
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It's starting to look more and more like Cooper won't be available. Tampa is baaad with Boucher.
He quite literally has the worst goaltending and one of the worst defenses in the league. I'm not sure how much you can blame him for the situation they're in.

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03-23-2013, 02:24 PM
  #903
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He quite literally has the worst goaltending and one of the worst defenses in the league. I'm not sure how much you can blame him for the situation they're in.
It's not unheard of for a bad team to fire its coach regardless of whether or not he deserves it.

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03-23-2013, 02:25 PM
  #904
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He quite literally has the worst goaltending and one of the worst defenses in the league. I'm not sure how much you can blame him for the situation they're in.
Seriously, I'd be happy with Boucher if Tampa takes Cooper.

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03-23-2013, 02:27 PM
  #905
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It's not unheard of for a bad team to fire its coach regardless of whether or not he deserves it.
Or to extend him when he deserves to be fired

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03-23-2013, 02:35 PM
  #906
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It's not unheard of for a bad team to fire its coach regardless of whether or not he deserves it.
Oh, I know. I just don't think anyone can expect anything different. 3rd in the league in scoring, positive GD but their goaltending and defense just can't keep the puck out. Boucher getting fired will be a prime example of a GM deflecting blame. Won't be surprised if results are the same with Cooper or anyone else.

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03-23-2013, 02:40 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Oh, I know. I just don't think anyone can expect anything different. 3rd in the league in scoring, positive GD but their goaltending and defense just can't keep the puck out. Boucher getting fired will be a prime example of a GM deflecting blame. Won't be surprised if results are the same with Cooper or anyone else.
Agreed. What are your thoughts on Boucher?

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03-23-2013, 02:46 PM
  #908
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Agreed. What are your thoughts on Boucher?
I don't know, I go back and forth on him. I think he's a great coach in terms of how he runs his team, the accountability he expects, putting guys in a position to succeed offensively, etc. but there are some qualities that I think would be problematic on this team. The main one being that he absolutely loves to juggle his lines. Canucks aren't really a team with the personnel to do that effectively.

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03-23-2013, 05:09 PM
  #909
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With the problems Tampa has on the back end and Stevie Y's refusal to fix them, I don't see Cooper faring any better there anyway. Hope we can snatch him up then when he gets the blame in a couple years.

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03-23-2013, 05:45 PM
  #910
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The problem with AV is the inability to adjust because of an overemphasis on sticking to the plan. Which works well during the regular season but in the playoffs not so much. Good example is the PP which has struggled forever and yet no major adjustments which may come but only after 20 games or more!

With any adversity at all, we'd be toast in the playoffs with that mentality.

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03-23-2013, 05:54 PM
  #911
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Tampa doesn't have a coaching problem as much as it does a GM problem. Colour me unimpressed with Yzerman's tenure to date.

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03-23-2013, 06:22 PM
  #912
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Tampa doesn't have a coaching problem as much as it does a GM problem. Colour me unimpressed with Yzerman's tenure to date.
I'm with you on that. He went into the draft with the 10th, 19th, 37th, 40th, 50th and 53rd picks. I wouldn't be surprised if Vasilveski at 19 is the only one that pays dividends.

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03-23-2013, 07:40 PM
  #913
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Just finished the watching the LA game. good third while up 1 goal, not too defensive or aggressive...

Could it be that in the third against the blues, It was more the blues playing a good strong third, trying there hardest to get something from the game, and not the coaching telling them to only play defensive "scared" hockey?

Or perhaps the coaching staff has done what was considered impossible, and changed there strategy for that situation?

Nah, it must be that the players have stopped listening to the coaches now and doing what they want, with greater success.

That would also enplane why the D have stopped going behind the net trying to stretch the forecheckers and now they are skating the puck closer to the blue line for the pass up the ice, and some times even skating it out.

Glad the players figured that one out all by them selves.

Edit: This post was dripping with sarcasm in my head but since I didn't project it well


Last edited by Stories Tales Lies: 03-23-2013 at 10:57 PM.
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03-23-2013, 10:31 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Glad the players figured that one out all by them selves.


Coaching really is a thankless job. Gets the blame when the team loses, gets no credit when the team wins.

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03-23-2013, 10:33 PM
  #915
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Coaching really is a thankless job. Gets the blame when the team loses, gets no credit when the team wins.
Sorry, I was being facetious

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03-23-2013, 10:40 PM
  #916
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Sorry, I was being facetious


and I was trying really really hard to detect sarcasm in your post too.

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03-23-2013, 10:50 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Nah, it must be that the players have stopped listening to the coaches now and doing what they want, with greater success.

That would also enplane why the D have stopped going behind the net trying to stretch the forecheckers and now they are skating the puck closer to the blue line for the pass up the ice, and some times even skating it out.

Glad the players figured that one out all by them selves.
why did it take the coaching staff this long to figure it out? That's the problem I've had.

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03-23-2013, 10:55 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by nucksfan8888 View Post
why did it take the coaching staff this long to figure it out? That's the problem I've had.
Figure what out exactly?

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03-24-2013, 12:07 AM
  #919
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you said the players have stopped taking it behind the net to stretch the forcheck an have even begun skating it out.

if that's actually the case(I haven't watched the last couple games very closely so relying others reviews like yours) why did it take the staff over 20 games to figure it out.

The coaching staff should not get any credit for fixing something that was very obviously broken and had been called out multiple times by many posters.

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03-24-2013, 12:33 AM
  #920
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Originally Posted by nucksfan8888 View Post
you said the players have stopped taking it behind the net to stretch the forcheck an have even begun skating it out.

if that's actually the case(I haven't watched the last couple games very closely so relying others reviews like yours) why did it take the staff over 20 games to figure it out.

The coaching staff should not get any credit for fixing something that was very obviously broken and had been called out multiple times by many posters.
K, didn't know if you were talking about that or the 3rd period strictly defense thing, but since you quoted that bit I should have figured that out sorry...

Was some thing I noticed today, (I would be interested if someone else could test my claim to see if I am right). so I don't know if it was just for this game or not, hope it doesn't go back to the same old again.

As for why, I obviously don't know, but between the short training camp, players finding there feet, injuries, lack of training time, the fact that it worked for the first 3rd of the season, and the players were not getting much luck go there way, It can be hard to make the changes on the fly this season.

Or it could be that it has taken the coaches until they lost the NW to even look at them selves and say we need to change this?

posters are right when they say that some of these things that have stopped working need to be changed, IMO it is wrong to say that AV is bad because he cant change, and there is a lack of evidence that he has lost the dressing room.

Also important to note as the commentators pointed out, AV was quickly changing the lines, a move to put off the opposition coach, AV often gets blamed for being out coached.

And in the end all these changes produced no better results then last time we played against LA.

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03-24-2013, 12:40 AM
  #921
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Figure what out exactly?

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:14 AM
  #922
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My mental faculties are somewhat compromised, i admit that.

But I have almost no idea who is arguing what in this thread.

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03-24-2013, 03:23 AM
  #923
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Every other team has had a short training camp and injuries are rampant throughout the NHL every season this year in particular, so I don't see the point in giving AV or his staff a pass there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
As for why, I obviously don't know, but between the short training camp, players finding there feet, injuries, lack of training time, the fact that it worked for the first 3rd of the season, and the players were not getting much luck go there way, It can be hard to make the changes on the fly this season.
As for the bolded, this is IMO but it wasn't working the first 1/3rd of the season, it was just a easy schedule and the goalies off to a hot start that got this team some early success. While it is just an opinion, it was a sentiment shared by many at the start of the year, that this team was winning despite it's play.


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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Or it could be that it has taken the coaches until they lost the NW to even look at them selves and say we need to change this?
This should not be the case, for a team that has won the presidents trophy 2 years in a row and the division multiple times, another division title being endangered should not be the wakeup call, this team is supposed to be a contender and they haven't played like it; that should've been the moment for self reflection, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
posters are right when they say that some of these things that have stopped working need to be changed, IMO it is wrong to say that AV is bad because he cant change, and there is a lack of evidence that he has lost the dressing room.
While there isn't enough evidence to put AV out to pasture, the comments made by a few key players in recent weeks, questioning the system, has never really come up before from current players, this and the total lack of emotion from this team points to deeper issues than just working out of a funk. IMO it points to a dissconnect between the team and it's coach.

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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Also important to note as the commentators pointed out, AV was quickly changing the lines, a move to put off the opposition coach, AV often gets blamed for being out coached.

And in the end all these changes produced no better results then last time we played against LA.
Yes he was quickly changing lines to put off the opposition coach, and yes he may have 'outcoached' Sutter, but too often the shoe is on the other foot and AV looks foolish.


My point is a few wins, even with a depleted roster, should not save AV's skin. Yes he deserves some credit for these wins, but there isn't enough credit in the world to make up for his past errors. Especially when the changes he has made have been called for awhile by others(the defencemen skating further up and not playing catch behind the net) and others made out of need (Schroeder on Raymond and Hansen's line, and Edler off of the PP which although hasn't produced results in this 1 game but is already leaps and bounds better through the neutral zone)

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Old
03-24-2013, 03:30 AM
  #924
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Tampa doesn't have a coaching problem as much as it does a GM problem. Colour me unimpressed with Yzerman's tenure to date.
I've been saying that if TBL doesn't get another goalie and misses the playoffs, then StevieY should be fired.

This is a team with such a glaring weakness its ridiculous and it is simply not being addressed despite having tradable assets in an area of strength to do it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I have no idea how AV still has a job despite only making it past the 2nd round once (on the back of an incredible Luongo performance in game 7 against Chicago)...how many coaches have won a Cup after this much time with a team? I bet not many.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

If we asked to talk to Cooper for a NHL head coaching job would TBL really be in a position to say no? Isn't it standard to let a team promote a guy to the NHL level?

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:55 AM
  #925
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I don't think Stevie Y should be blamed, but he should definitely be pressured to make some improvements. The bandaid fixes he's put on his goal tending and D have been atrocious.

He has prospects. He has old vets. He can afford to trade some of them to make his team more competitive.

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