HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Greater dynasty: Gretzky's Oilers vs Trottier's Islanders

View Poll Results: Who are greater?
Gretzky's Oilers 61 50.00%
Trottier's Islanders 44 36.07%
Even 17 13.93%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-14-2013, 10:27 AM
  #51
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
I voted Oilers because they blew Isles away in '84 Finals
Why didn't you vote Islanders because they blew away the Oilers in the 83 Finals?

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:52 PM
  #52
tag0519
Registered User
 
tag0519's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 540
vCash: 500
I voted Islanders, but this is very close. Here are some of my thoughts.

The style of play was different. The Oilers style was a little like the Canadiens of 76-79. Great puck control with a ton of scoring. Al Arbour came along and said screw this puck control nonsense, we're going to play aggressive, tight, positional fore-checking, Neutral-Zone play and Defense. That, and three solid lines won them the four cups. Plus Gillies could kick the piss out of anyone. He created a model that a lot of teams use today.

Sather created a style tailored to what he had, and they were, to some extent, better than those Canadiens.

Again, close, but I say the Islanders.

tag0519 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:17 PM
  #53
Yamaguchi*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, considering the '88 Oilers won the Cup without Gretzky, that there wasn't much roster turnover from the '87 Champs to the '88 Champs (essentially Gretzky and Coffey replaced by Simpson, Carson, Gelinas) and that the '90 Oilers still had 16 "core" players from the '88 championship squad (most of whom were also there in '87, mind you)...

Your opinion that the Oilers' '90 Cup tells us little/nothing about the strength of depth on Gretzky's Oilers is not only a minority opinion, it's also on weak footing, imo.
I see your point but as mentioned before, Gretzky's Oilers means the Oilers with Gretzky in the lineup.

Yamaguchi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 05:38 PM
  #54
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 25,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I see your point but as mentioned before, Gretzky's Oilers means the Oilers with Gretzky in the lineup.
As perhaps not mentioned before, Gretzky himself, as great as he was, wasn't a dynasty. And what they (the 16 returnees) did "immediately" after his departure (after losing to Gretzky's Kings in '89 of course, lol) speaks to the strength they provided the dynasty during the "Gretzky years", as well.

Ohashi_Jouzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 05:41 PM
  #55
Thesensation19*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,573
vCash: 500
I vote Oilers simply because they came in and threw them off the title streak to make their own

Thesensation19* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 05:47 PM
  #56
Yamaguchi*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
As perhaps not mentioned before, Gretzky himself, as great as he was, wasn't a dynasty. And what they (the 16 returnees) did "immediately" after his departure (after losing to Gretzky's Kings in '89 of course, lol) speaks to the strength they provided the dynasty during the "Gretzky years", as well.

I got you. Thanks.

Yamaguchi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 07:27 PM
  #57
BrimStone64
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Why didn't you vote Islanders because they blew away the Oilers in the 83 Finals?
Oilers were not mature then.

BrimStone64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 09:48 PM
  #58
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Oilers were not mature then.
Ah, and the 84 Islanders were at their best, were they?

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 10:32 PM
  #59
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 25,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Ah, and the 84 Islanders were at their best, were they?
Well, they scored 55 more goals and only allowed 43 more on the way to 8 more points in the standings in '83/84 (104) compared to '82/83 (96). Also, not only are the big names all there (Potvin, Bossy, Trottier, Gillies, Sutter, Tonelli, Gilbert), and still in their mid/late 20s for the most part, but the Islanders also had a young lad named Lafontaine chip in 19 points in his first 15 regular season games, and 9 points in his first 16 playoff games. It's hard to argue that they were less talented as a group, that's for sure, and almost no one was even close to "long in the tooth", as the saying goes (Potvin among the oldest of the key players at 30).

Ohashi_Jouzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 11:36 PM
  #60
Mad Max
Registered User
 
Mad Max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DDO, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 233
vCash: 500
It's probably about even in actuality. Many people side with the Islanders because of Steve Smith's mishap in '86.

Mad Max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 03:23 AM
  #61
BrimStone64
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Ah, and the 84 Islanders were at their best, were they?
Virtually the same group

BrimStone64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 03:43 AM
  #62
BrimStone64
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,118
vCash: 500
Break it down top player by player....Gretzky better than Trottier. Messier better than Goring. Both of those are by a landslide. Fuhr and Smith even. Moog probably better than Chico. Potvin better than Coffey. Bossy better than Kurri. Anderson and Gillies even. Tonelli better than Tikkanen. Lowe better than Jonsson. Sutter better than MacTavish. Krush give edge to Bourne. Smith better than Morrow. Nystrom better than Semenko.

Gretz and Mess so much better makes the difference. But teams are close

BrimStone64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 06:33 AM
  #63
Yamaguchi*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Break it down top player by player....Gretzky better than Trottier. Messier better than Goring. Both of those are by a landslide. Fuhr and Smith even. Moog probably better than Chico. Potvin better than Coffey. Bossy better than Kurri. Anderson and Gillies even. Tonelli better than Tikkanen. Lowe better than Jonsson. Sutter better than MacTavish. Krush give edge to Bourne. Smith better than Morrow. Nystrom better than Semenko.

Gretz and Mess so much better makes the difference. But teams are close


A good player-by-player comparison. Still, NYI have managed to win 4 Cups in a row. The Oilers choked in 1986

Yamaguchi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 08:37 AM
  #64
blogofmike
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 862
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
A good player-by-player comparison. Still, NYI have managed to win 4 Cups in a row. The Oilers choked in 1986
4 in a row is as good as it gets for a 4-year span, but the thread's not "greater record in a continuous 4-year span."

5 Cups in 7 years is better than 4 in 4 years, because at the end of 7 years, the Oilers have 5 and the Isles still have 4. They never "choked" in consecutive years, as the Isles did every year outside of 1980-84.

blogofmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 08:40 AM
  #65
Yamaguchi*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blogofmike View Post
4 in a row is as good as it gets for a 4-year span, but the thread's not "greater record in a continuous 4-year span."

5 Cups in 7 years is better than 4 in 4 years, because at the end of 7 years, the Oilers have 5 and the Isles still have 4. They never "choked" in consecutive years, as the Isles did every year outside of 1980-84.

Please see the initial post: Isles 80-83 vs Oilers 84-88

Yamaguchi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 08:48 AM
  #66
wunderpanda
sabre of damocles
 
wunderpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,382
vCash: 500
Why Trottier's Islanders and not Bossy's?

wunderpanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 08:56 AM
  #67
Yamaguchi*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
Why Trottier's Islanders and not Bossy's?
As mentioned above, the top centres.

Yamaguchi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 09:04 AM
  #68
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, they scored 55 more goals and only allowed 43 more on the way to 8 more points in the standings in '83/84 (104) compared to '82/83 (96). Also, not only are the big names all there (Potvin, Bossy, Trottier, Gillies, Sutter, Tonelli, Gilbert), and still in their mid/late 20s for the most part, but the Islanders also had a young lad named Lafontaine chip in 19 points in his first 15 regular season games, and 9 points in his first 16 playoff games. It's hard to argue that they were less talented as a group, that's for sure, and almost no one was even close to "long in the tooth", as the saying goes (Potvin among the oldest of the key players at 30).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Virtually the same group
Say the guys who obviously didn't see them.

You don't think that playing in 20 straight playoff series over 5 years doesn't put some mileage on players?

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 10:16 AM
  #69
tony d
Giant Doctor
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,683
vCash: 500
Gretzky's Oilers

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 10:18 AM
  #70
acor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 638
vCash: 500
Isles>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gretzk y's Oilers
If we talk about Messier's Oilers, THAT would be closer...

acor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 10:48 AM
  #71
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by acor View Post
Isles>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gretzk y's Oilers
If we talk about Messier's Oilers, THAT would be closer...
And the award for most illogical statement in the thread goes to...

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 10:56 AM
  #72
Mcworraps
McWonderful McSummer
 
Mcworraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,959
vCash: 50
I admit to a certain amount of bias but, in my mind, the fact that the Oilers actually ended the Islanders dynasty to start their own and Gretzky's G.O.A.T cache puts the Oilers on top.

Mcworraps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 05:11 PM
  #73
Supreme King
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
I cant see the logic in picking the Oilers in this one. The Islanders won 4 consecutive cups, the Oilers took 4 cups in a 5 year span (The title says Gretzky Oilers, so I'm excluding the Oilers 1990 cup win). The Islanders had the better dynasty and quite frankly at their peaks, I think the Islanders where overall the better team.

It's interesting to note that both the Islanders and Oilers were in similar situations in 1982 and 1986 when both were gunning for a third straight cup. Both were down (the Islanders by two goals, the Oilers by one, late in the third period) in the deciding game of each series. The Islanders got the job done, the Oilers didnt. That has to count for something.

Supreme King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 05:19 PM
  #74
Yamaguchi*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme King View Post
I cant see the logic in picking the Oilers in this one. The Islanders won 4 consecutive cups, the Oilers took 4 cups in a 5 year span (The title says Gretzky Oilers, so I'm excluding the Oilers 1990 cup win). The Islanders had the better dynasty and quite frankly at their peaks, I think the Islanders where overall the better team.

It's interesting to note that both the Islanders and Oilers were in similar situations in 1982 and 1986 when both were gunning for a third straight cup. Both were down (the Islanders by two goals, the Oilers by one, late in the third period) in the deciding game of each series. The Islanders got the job done, the Oilers didnt. That has to count for something.


Bravo. Excellent post

Yamaguchi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 05:25 PM
  #75
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme King View Post
That has to count for something.
The Islanders got bounced out of the playoffs in 6 games by the Rangers.....that has to count for something right?

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.