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Leafs Roster analysis - Defense - Dion Phaneuf

View Poll Results: What is Dion Phaneuf?
Elite Defenseman 12 11.21%
1A Defenseman 54 50.47%
1B Defenseman 30 28.04%
2A Defenseman 11 10.28%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:16 AM
  #76
HockeyThoughts
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Originally Posted by firstemperor View Post
You have proven nothing as well besides spewing qualitative nonsense throughout the thread and having entirety of posts based on legacy, which was never argued against. The only reason I brought up metrics is because it is the only item that would normalize data to take away all this nonsense you hold against Franson (like how he seemingly only plays 3rd/4th line guys (which is laughable), and the fewer minutes he earns versus a Phaneuf, as if it is a fault of his own).

And like I've said before, I don't have the time at the moment, as someone who is in the middle of midterms himself, I don't have the time to feed my own ego against a guy I'm debating on the internet of whether Phaneuf is a 1A defenseman. Is it something I wouldn't mind doing in my free time? Sure. But don't try to play this bigger man card when you haven't provided anything of substance either. If you want to feed your ego and provide something of relevance besides your qualitative junk that can't be directly accounted for and normalized in the form of statistics, then we're done here. Just like the onus is supposedly on me to prove my point, why don't you prove yours. Otherwise, we're at a stalemate here. And like I've said, I'll even concede the "KO" to you, since you clearly have an ego to feed tonight.
I'm done with you. Why don't I prove my point.. hmm.. Because I very clearly have. Because it's blatantly obvious I'm right? Qualitative junk Franson having less minutes then Phaneuf not a fault of his own

At least I post some sort of substantial "junk" you just keep posting stupidity.

Yeah I definitely need to feed my ego! Luckily you made it as easy as you did

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:18 AM
  #77
firstemperor
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
I'm done with you. Why don't I prove my point.. hmm.. Because I very clearly have. Because it's blatantly obvious I'm right? Qualitative junk Franson having less minutes then Phaneuf not a fault of his own

At least I post some sort of substantial "junk" you just keep posting stupidity.

Yeah I definitely need to feed my ego! Luckily you made it as easy as you did
Well, I'll be the bigger man here and we'll leave it at that.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:23 AM
  #78
Grant
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
You make the weak claim that it's merely cliché, that we mention the "workload argument" but that's just because we both know it speaks volumes to Dion Phaneuf's performance in contrast to Cody Franson's.

You say that if you normalize their production or efficiency that Phaneuf wouldn't far exceed Franson. The vital mistake you make here is that you assume that Phaneuf and Franson play the same minutes. Phaneuf is not only taxed far more throughout the game playing ~8minutes more a game, but he is undoubtedly playing the far tougher minutes with almost ~3minutes more PKing per game, and facing the daunting task of shutting down the Eastern Conference's top offensive players while Franson is matched up against 3rd and 4th liners East-wide.

I don't generally subscribe to advanced statistics but the one that shows QoC (Quality of Competition) would sure come in handy right now. However, I'm done doing all the work and research for you. Go check out those stats and then come back with some DEFINITIVE EVIDENCE in the form of game clips, statistics or anything aside from baseless claims.
For those players in the league who have played 10+ games (forwards included), Franson has the 17th easiest relative QoC in the league at -1.664. Phaneuf on the other hand has the 5th hardest relative QoC in the league at 2.042.

I don't like using the numbers usually because it can be hard to compare players as usually the numbers are so close. The differences between QoC between Phaneuf and Franson is no competition though. They are literally at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:42 PM
  #79
Chandrashekhar Limit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 View Post
Weber
Chara
Karlsson
Letang
Pietrangelo

Off the top of my head.

I think Phaneuf is a 1B defenceman. 1st pairing guy but plays next to the better defenceman.
Letang sucks at playing defense. OEL is a better all around player than him, and so is Phaneuf.

I think when we rate dmen, we should consider all around play (unlike the dumbass Norris voters).

I think Phaneuf is a 1A dman. A clear #1 (top 30), but not close to being elite. He is elite on some nights, but he is too inconsistent in that regards. Also, he has a little too many brainfarts to be considered elite.

Now if you put him with a good 2-way guy who can carry the puck, we'll see just how good this guy can be.

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:24 PM
  #80
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