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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread VI

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Old
03-14-2013, 06:00 AM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I can't say for sure, but I must have said something, because I wasn't thrilled with that line at all.
I mentioned something, too, but I didn't really dig into the line like I could have. I figured that this was not my job, and that someone would eventually rake the unit across the coals for being the weak collection of talent that it was (I thought Lafontaine, specifically, was a terrible pick where he was drafted), but it never really happened. That team came up against a succession of basically polite GMs, and because arrbez is such a pleasant guy, himself, I guess he just never caught a flying elbow for the composition of that line.

That being said, he had Gretzky - Kurri on the top line, an excellent 3rd line and a very strong defense, so it was a championship-calibre team, anyway, but I'd have liked to seen him forced to defend that second line a bit more than he did.

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03-14-2013, 06:06 AM
  #252
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Does this mean our second line is overrated?

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Old
03-14-2013, 06:25 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Does this mean our second line is overrated?
In my honest opinion, yes. Lafontaine and Tikkanen are two of the most overrated players in the ATD at this point, I think, and Palffy, while a legitimate 2nd liner, is no longer the good value he once was. It's functional as a second line, but not particularly good, and considerably worse than the value of the picks would suggest.

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03-14-2013, 06:59 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
That was painful, there was absolutely nothing, including various reputable sources that could change his perspective on Dailey.

Nice pick though, I definitely think he belongs in the ATD.
Oh boy, what a headache that was

I also think he's ATD worthy

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:06 AM
  #255
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Oh boy, what a headache that was

I also think he's ATD worthy
This is how I picture C1958 (I'm not sure who the other guy is):



He is an interesting fellow - a rare bird at his age, being so active on the internet and whatnot. C1958 has a great deal of crystallized knowledge, but his brain seems to be full, and new information frustrates him terribly. His hurr-durr handling of Frank Brimsek in the goalie project thread was also pretty amusing to watch, especially considering that he is not old enough to have any memory of Brimsek.

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:13 AM
  #256
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Reds is skipped. I will PM Hobnobs.

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:15 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
This is how I picture C1958 (I'm not sure who the other guy is):

Must be Killion, the other crazy curmudgeon of HoH board.

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:15 AM
  #258
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Reds is skipped. I will PM Hobnobs.
Thanks for PM.

We pick our first defensive spare: Mark Tinordi, D


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Old
03-14-2013, 07:21 AM
  #259
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Tinordi was a tough one. Very good at his peak, but got banged up a lot. Perfect as a spare.

Well, moving right along, I have Reen's list. He's still pretty busy with home renovations, I guess, but he checks in occasionally to tell me who he wants. Anyway, Montreal selects defenseman Mathieu Schneider.

I'll PM DoMakc.

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:27 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Must be Killion, the other crazy curmudgeon of HoH board.
Lol...yeah. K's habit of "going all James Joyce" whenever someone disagrees with him is a sight to see.

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:35 AM
  #261
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HC Donbass selects Jay Pandolfo, LW

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03-14-2013, 07:41 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
HC Donbass selects Jay Pandolfo, LW
Ooof, he's a current Bruin......I know he was a steady & reliable defensive player at his peak but he is absolutely painful to watch right now. He's done, I get real nervous whenever he's on the ice. There will be no miraculous rising from the Phoenix for him....

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:43 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Ooof, he's a current Bruin......I know he was a steady & reliable defensive player at his peak but he is absolutely painful to watch right now. He's done, I get real nervous whenever he's on the ice. There will be no miraculous rising from the Phoenix for him....
well he's 38 now

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:52 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post

Phaneuf to spare, IMO. And I'm the guy who isn't thrilled with Corbeau and thinks Phaneuf is actually becoming underrated in real life.
That is what I thought too.

And as much as I don't particularly like him, I agree about Phaneuf becoming underrated too.

Sure the Leafs suck but he is soaking up a lot of minutes without a lot of help. Look at his partners this year

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:55 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
That is what I thought too.

And as much as I don't particularly like him, I agree about Phaneuf becoming underrated too.

Sure the Leafs suck but he is soaking up a lot of minutes without a lot of help. Look at his partners this year
Holzer? Has he been bad? The times I watched the leafs I thought Holzer was alright. Sure hes not a 1st pairing kinda guy tho

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Old
03-14-2013, 07:56 AM
  #266
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well he's 38 now
Oh I know that and it has nothing to do with the quality of his career or the character of the man...I think it's more me venting on the current abbreviated NHL season and the fact that Chiarelli pulled this guy out of retirement as a 3rd line LW safety valve....Chris Bourque has now been waived, the (crucial) regular 3rd line CTR now has a broken tibia, so now we will get more minutes from Pandolfo in the immediate future.

He has the smarts and the guile to be positionally sound on the ice but physically he's deteriorated tremendously and is noticeably a step behind in his forechecking coverage and can't get back quickly enough for a quality backcheck. He should unlace them and go out gracefully.....it is that painful to experience.

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Old
03-14-2013, 08:29 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
He has the smarts and the guile to be positionally sound on the ice but physically he's deteriorated tremendously and is noticeably a step behind in his forechecking coverage and can't get back quickly enough for a quality backcheck. He should unlace them and go out gracefully.....it is that painful to experience.
He's suffering from Paul Coffey syndrome, I see.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:10 AM
  #268
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Dallas skipped pick, D Calle Johansson

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:23 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
He's suffering from Paul Coffey syndrome, I see.
Oh, not even close to the decline of Coffey. Like him or not, Coffey was a helluva player. To see him as a Bruin in his last season was one of the saddest thing I ever experienced. He didn't even have any fumes left.....

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:41 AM
  #270
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Old
03-14-2013, 10:09 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Is he? I'm actually having a hard time figuring out exactly how good Alec Connell is.

With no official save percentages and shot totals available, it's hard to get an exact read.


In 1928, hockeydb has some kind of reconstructed save percentage, but I'm not sure how they got it. I seem to remember they took from from a newspaper article in 1928, but I'm not sure exactly. Connell faced 32 shots against per game and his save percentage was 0.961, which was 2nd behind only Hainsworth's 0.966.
It's definitely hard to tell how good Alec Connell was. I went into the goalie project with him comfortably in my top 30, then my opinion of him just kept dropping round by round until now I think he's probably fringe top 40. I do think he's a step up from his contemporary Lorne Chabot, though.

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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
For starters, let's just say that I don't think there's anything separating him from say Jiri Holik and Ivan Hlinka, both of whom were drafted in the 400s. And that's not knocking Holik or Hlinka, who I think were drafted in quite proper spots. Liba's IMO chronically underrated, and I think I'll do a bio on him to prove it.
You'd better do a good bio, because that's the only way anyone would believe it.

I know that one Slovakian poster on HOH was really pushing Liba as a great two-way player.

Quote:
It's not important to figure out how good Connell is once you figure out just how bad Vernon is.
Heh, yeah, Vernon wasn't "bad" per se, but he isn't on my list as a top backup here.

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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I mentioned something, too, but I didn't really dig into the line like I could have. I figured that this was not my job, and that someone would eventually rake the unit across the coals for being the weak collection of talent that it was (I thought Lafontaine, specifically, was a terrible pick where he was drafted), but it never really happened. That team came up against a succession of basically polite GMs, and because arrbez is such a pleasant guy, himself, I guess he just never caught a flying elbow for the composition of that line.

That being said, he had Gretzky - Kurri on the top line, an excellent 3rd line and a very strong defense, so it was a championship-calibre team, anyway, but I'd have liked to seen him forced to defend that second line a bit more than he did.
I basically agree with everything you say here. I also thought Lafontaine was bad value where arrbez took him and that he basically got lucky by taking Mogilny, who IMO is a fringe second liner at this level who wouldn't be totally out of place in the MLD, and got some real life chemistry out of them.

And like you, I definitely mentioned it more than once, but probably not as forcefully as I could have. Remember that last ATD was when at least one GM was PMing other mods complaining about how "negative" I was, and there were other GMs who seemed to get offended by any little criticism of their teams. So I was probably more muted by the end of last draft than I normally would be.

That said, I had a harsh criticism of arrbez's second line all written out and ready to go for when I met him in the Conference finals... then I was beaten in the division finals....

On the other hand, 2nd line was also the weakness of seventieslord's championships team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
In my honest opinion, yes. Lafontaine and Tikkanen are two of the most overrated players in the ATD at this point, I think, and Palffy, while a legitimate 2nd liner, is no longer the good value he once was. It's functional as a second line, but not particularly good, and considerably worse than the value of the picks would suggest.
Yeah, Palffy is ok value where he's drafted now, but he used to be a steal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
This is how I picture C1958 (I'm not sure who the other guy is):



He is an interesting fellow - a rare bird at his age, being so active on the internet and whatnot. C1958 has a great deal of crystallized knowledge, but his brain seems to be full, and new information frustrates him terribly. His hurr-durr handling of Frank Brimsek in the goalie project thread was also pretty amusing to watch, especially considering that he is not old enough to have any memory of Brimsek.
Heh, basically this. C1958 reminds me of a grandfather who has lots of interesting war stories that make you just want to pick his brain. But it's often hard to separate the fact from the fiction, and sometimes not even worth the effort, as he gets really pissed off if you don't take everything he says as gospel.

As far as I know, he was the first guy on this board to insist on how good Dickie Moore and Alex Delvecchio were defensively, and now we have actual supplemental evidence that he was right. On the other hand, his trashing of Norm Ullman (probably because Ullman never won the Cup) is just goofballs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Must be Killion, the other crazy curmudgeon of HoH board.
Heh, probably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
HC Donbass selects Jay Pandolfo, LW
Excellent PKing specialist and obviously very good defensively over all. But as close as you're going to get to a black hole offensively from a forward at this level. He and Jan Erixon can compete to see if either one of them breaks 5 goals over the course of the ATD season.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-14-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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Old
03-14-2013, 10:14 AM
  #272
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634 papershoes & SchultzSquared - Kenora Thistles - ON THE CLOCK (54 minutes remaining)
No. You can't go below 4 hours on your clock. He has until 11:35 CT or 12:35 ET.

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03-14-2013, 10:17 AM
  #273
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No. You can't go below 4 hours on your clock. He has until 11:35 CT or 12:35 ET.
True. I think our non-North American posters who are keeping tabs on things (Sturm and VI) might have forgotten about this silly little thing that just happened in North America called Daylight Savings Time.

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Old
03-14-2013, 10:22 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I basically agree with everything you say here. I also thought Lafontaine was bad value where arrbez took him and that he basically got lucky by taking Mogilny, who IMO is a fringe second liner at this level who wouldn't be totally out of place in the MLD, and got some real life chemistry out of them.

And like you, I definitely mentioned it more than once, but probably not as forcefully as I could have. Remember that last ATD was when at least one GM was PMing other mods complaining about how "negative" I was, and there were other GMs who seemed to get offended by any little criticism of their teams. So I was probably more muted by the end of last draft than I normally would be.
I am pretty sure I brought it up as well at some point during the draft.

Personally, I think Lafontaine and Mogilny punch way above their weight around here because they are recent enough for many of us to have seen them, and they were greatly talented players.

However, in an ATD sense, both of them don't have many great seasons due to both injury and a sometimes lack of effort in Mogilny. They both fit nicely into that 6-7 year peak everyone seems to like as a sweet spot.

Their resumes were very thin to be carrying a second line imo.

Quote:
That said, I had a harsh criticism of arrbez's second line all written out and ready to go for when I met him in the Conference finals... then I was beaten in the division finals....

On the other hand, 2nd line was also the weakness of seventieslord's championships team.
I think second lines have been getting a bit of a bye more often than not. (Unless they are mine apparently pretty sure mine got raked a bit both of the last drafts)

They don't get the focus the first line does and they don't have the defensive responsibilities applied to them that people seem to automatically criticize 3rd and 4th lines about..


Quote:
Yeah, Palffy is ok value where he's drafted now, but he used to be a steal.
Agreed. He was underrated before because all his totals were dead puck era but now he has been going in the right area.


Quote:
Excellent PKing specialist and obviously very good defensively over all. But as close as you're going to get to a black hole offensively from a forward at this level. He and Jan Erixon can compete to see if either one of them breaks 5 goals over the course of the ATD season.
Yeah, I have readily admitted Miller on my team doesn't add much of anything offensively, but even he has a fair bit more to offer offensively than those two.

If they are used as 4th liners and specialists though.. why not take them for their strengths? As long as they aren't planning on playing their 4th lines much at all at ES..

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Old
03-14-2013, 10:34 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post

Excellent PKing specialist and obviously very good defensively over all. But as close as you're going to get to a black hole offensively from a forward at this level. He and Jan Erixon can compete to see if either one of them breaks 5 goals over the course of the ATD season.
It's ok though. I think all defence, but nothing on offencive side fits Lemaire's type of 4th liner.

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