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ATD 2013 - Draft Thread VI

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Old
03-25-2013, 06:03 PM
  #851
Hobnobs
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Andrew Ladd is probably the worst of a bad bunch

MadArcard drafts Trojak with his last pick in every draft it seems, and I still see no reason to think that Czechoslovakian glue guy from the 1940s is worth drafting here.

I've been down the the AAA draft several times and I've honestly never heard of Benny Woit. I don't think we're at the point yet where you should be drafting guys where you have to look at their minor league credentials to sell them.

Georges Laraque? LOL.
Yea, I think Laraque is just an awful pick here. Beyond awful. Ladd might be MLD spare material at best atm.

Woit I honestly dont know that much about but he doesnt strike me as the ATDer at first sight.

You have no problem with Sandlin then or are you being polite?

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03-25-2013, 06:04 PM
  #852
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Benny Woit went in the A draft in 2011, way to early for him this year especially with so many good defensemen still out there. (I'm debating between 3 right now)

As to Ladd, he's a solid player but even so the ATD draft is way to early for him.

Oh and Laraque's a very questionable pick in either draft. All due respect to Reen I don't think I'd pick Laraque in a B draft if we ever got down that far.

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Old
03-25-2013, 06:05 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Georges Laraque? LOL.
We'll have to draft somebody to deal with him.

The newest Alaskan is Stone Cold Steve Austin !!!

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Old
03-25-2013, 06:06 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Yea, I think Laraque is just an awful pick here. Beyond awful. Ladd might be MLD spare material at best atm.

Woit I honestly dont know that much about but he doesnt strike me as the ATDer at first sight.

You have no problem with Sandlin then or are you being polite?
I'm honestly not sure exactly what Sandlin brings as an assistant, but it has to be something I think He invented the Swedish torpedo system, right?

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03-25-2013, 06:16 PM
  #855
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I'm honestly not sure exactly what Sandlin brings as an assistant, but it has to be something I think He invented the Swedish torpedo system, right?
My thinking in getting him is that he brings a bit of stabillity and positive thinking to Quennevilles more rough style.

Sandlin is behind ALOT in swedish hockey.

The 1-3-1 system
Development of players (Salming for example)
Renowned for getting players to weld a team together and get players to believe in his system.
Nicknamed "The hockey professor"

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Old
03-25-2013, 06:34 PM
  #856
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We'll have to draft somebody to deal with him.

The newest Alaskan is Stone Cold Steve Austin !!!
By the way, I fully endorse this pick.

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Old
03-25-2013, 07:02 PM
  #857
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I'll defend Laraque just a bit ... as a 5-min a night power play specialist, he can be an impact player. I'm on my phone so I don't have stats in front of me, but I watched in frustrated disbelief as his generation's best physical defenders -- Hatcher, Pronger, Matvichuk, Foote -- couldn't deal with him. Underrated hands too ... he cycled the puck and battled in the corners very well. Doesn't belong on a skating line with Bure or Mosienko, but against a team that relies on one, big defender (ie: Bouchard and a weak 2nd), The Rock ensures that defender will be in the crease, allowing Tkachuk or Lindros a bit more space with less to worry about from Larry Robinson or Scott Stevens. It's niche-y, but he could impact, and allow a linemate to wreak havoc on a power play. Not saying I totally buy it, but maybe ...

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Old
03-25-2013, 07:08 PM
  #858
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Laraque strikes me as a bit too "by the code" for the ATD. There are guys in here who wouldn't hesitate cracking a stick over your skull, and you still have Georges walking around propositioning people...but only if they're "heavyweights".

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03-25-2013, 07:08 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
I'll defend Laraque just a bit ... as a 5-min a night power play specialist, he can be an impact player. I'm on my phone so I don't have stats in front of me, but I watched in frustrated disbelief as his generation's best physical defenders -- Hatcher, Pronger, Matvichuk, Foote -- couldn't deal with him. Underrated hands too ... he cycled the puck and battled in the corners very well. Doesn't belong on a skating line with Bure or Mosienko, but against a team that relies on one, big defender (ie: Bouchard and a weak 2nd), The Rock ensures that defender will be in the crease, allowing Tkachuk or Lindros a bit more space with less to worry about from Larry Robinson or Scott Stevens. It's niche-y, but he could impact, and allow a linemate to wreak havoc on a power play. Not saying I totally buy it, but maybe ...
No... I dont buy it all. Not at this level. There are lots of players goons and tough guys who can fill that role equally good but providing better play.

Laraque played somewhere around 700 games but only scored 130 something pts and 1000 PIMs. I mean there is AAA guys with better qualities...

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03-25-2013, 07:19 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
No... I dont buy it all. Not at this level. There are lots of players goons and tough guys who can fill that role equally good but providing better play.

Laraque played somewhere around 700 games but only scored 130 something pts and 1000 PIMs. I mean there is AAA guys with better qualities...
you guys are thinking about him as A textbook goon ... I'm thinking about him as a very unique power forward. He was a bigger load than Tkachuk, a bigger load than Probert, and he contributed in a unique way. Like the biggest, slowest, hulksmashingest Sedin ever ... maybe ...

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03-25-2013, 07:34 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
you guys are thinking about him as A textbook goon ... I'm thinking about him as a very unique power forward. He was a bigger load than Tkachuk, a bigger load than Probert, and he contributed in a unique way. Like the biggest, slowest, hulksmashingest Sedin ever ... maybe ...
He'd be more effective using a snow shovel than a hockey stick.

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03-25-2013, 07:37 PM
  #862
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Anyone want to take a list? Logging off this soon for the night.

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:12 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I've been down the the AAA draft several times and I've honestly never heard of Benny Woit. I don't think we're at the point yet where you should be drafting guys where you have to look at their minor league credentials to sell them.
His minor league credentials are more for completeness' sake... I think others have them listed... they certainly are not "the" argument to sell him

Ultimately I think he is perfect spare...

-An all-time great spoke about playing with him... meshing well with his style
-He was played heavily as the bench got shorter by ATD coach
-He was among the toughest players in the league during his time
-He was the best in his day at something
-He was maybe the best pure defense player on an all-time dynasty team
-He is multi position
-He won everywhere (even after that quote too with various minor league teams) and is obviously not detriment to a room

Is Woit an everyday player... goodness no... but if you were a coach and needed to fill a hole... either fourth line or third pairing... knowing that any one of the opposing teams are the best ever in history... I do not know you could trust anyone else with those limited minutes more than Woit... he isn't going to do a lot for you offensively... but he is going to mash guys... play very good to great defense... fit with someone as good as Red Kelly (Lidstrom in our case)

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:19 PM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I've been down the the AAA draft several times and I've honestly never heard of Benny Woit. I don't think we're at the point yet where you should be drafting guys where you have to look at their minor league credentials to sell them.
I honestly don't see that much separating him from Doug Young

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:30 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
I honestly don't see that much separating him from Doug Young
He is also leaps and bounds ahead of the other F/D combos that went in this area last draft... but I will wait if/until they go to compare...

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03-25-2013, 08:34 PM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
I honestly don't see that much separating him from Doug Young
Young was the captain of two Stanley Cup championship teams and played in the 1939 NHL all-star game, an all-star at every level of play.

Woit was a 4th depth dman.

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:45 PM
  #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Young was the captain of two Stanley Cup championship teams and played in the 1939 NHL all-star game, an all-star at every level of play.

Woit was a 4th depth dman.
So Woit has more Cups... same number of All Star Games... was an all star in the minors like Young... the C makes one a... whatever you think Young is in the ATD... and Woit less than that?

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03-25-2013, 08:48 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Young was the captain of two Stanley Cup championship teams and played in the 1939 NHL all-star game, an all-star at every level of play.

Woit was a 4th depth dman.
look at the competition on their own team - of course Woit is a 4th defenceman, anyone drafted at this stage would be behind Kelly, Pronovost, and Goldham; including Young. That said, he was often paired with Kelly or Pronovost

Also, I'm not sure how Young is credited with captaining that 36-37 Re Wings championship - he didn't play a single playoff game that season.

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03-25-2013, 08:52 PM
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
So Woit has more Cups... same number of All Star Games... was an all star in the minors like Young... the C makes one a... whatever you think Young is in the ATD... and Woit less than that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
I honestly don't see that much separating him from Doug Young
I honestly think it's hilarious you guys are trying to make a case for this...

Doug Young

7th, 9th, 10th in AS Voting (over a 5-year span)
(also received a single vote in both 1932 and 1940)

Points among D:
3rd (1936), 8th (1933), 10th (1932), 11th (1940)

Benny Who?

EHL First All-Star Team (1962, 1963)
EHL Second All-Star Team (1964)
EHL North First All-Star Team (1965)

Looks good until you consider the first letter in the name of league. There's absolutely no case to be made.

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:53 PM
  #870
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The Firebirds will round out th team with Sami Kapanen.

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:54 PM
  #871
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Is it me or does anyone else find it a little amusing over the brouhaha of a final pick depth player?

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03-25-2013, 08:57 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Young was the captain of two Stanley Cup championship teams and played in the 1939 NHL all-star game, an all-star at every level of play.

Woit was a 4th depth dman.
The fact that Detroit won 3 Cups with Woit as a depth player, yet Woit only played in one of the 3 All Star Games he should have as a member of the previous year's Cup winner makes me wonder - was he injured twice, or just not important enough to the Red Wings to even get the automatic bid to the All Star game that went to the previous year's Cup winner?

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03-25-2013, 08:58 PM
  #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
So Woit has more Cups...
His cups in mostly a depth secondary role versus a double cup champion team captain? VERY different roles.

Quote:
..same number of All Star Games...
Woit had one in an era when all-star games were annual occurances, whereas Young played during an era when there was just two all-star benefit games.

Young was three times top-10 in all-star selection voting, and was third in NHL scoring among defensemen the year of the first of the back-to-back cup wins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Oct 18, 1939
He has been one of the outstanding backfielders in the National League. He is 29 years of age and can skate and handle the stick with the speed and finesse...

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03-25-2013, 08:58 PM
  #874
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
His minor league credentials are more for completeness' sake... I think others have them listed... they certainly are not "the" argument to sell him

Ultimately I think he is perfect spare...

-An all-time great spoke about playing with him... meshing well with his style
-He was played heavily as the bench got shorter by ATD coach
-He was among the toughest players in the league during his time
-He was the best in his day at something
-He was maybe the best pure defense player on an all-time dynasty team
-He is multi position
-He won everywhere (even after that quote too with various minor league teams) and is obviously not detriment to a room

Is Woit an everyday player... goodness no... but if you were a coach and needed to fill a hole... either fourth line or third pairing... knowing that any one of the opposing teams are the best ever in history... I do not know you could trust anyone else with those limited minutes more than Woit... he isn't going to do a lot for you offensively... but he is going to mash guys... play very good to great defense... fit with someone as good as Red Kelly (Lidstrom in our case)
Lol, if by "pure defensive" player, you mean "sucked offensively," then sure. There's no way he was as good defensively as Red Kelly or Marcel Pronovost or aging Jack Stewart Bob Goldham

Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
I honestly don't see that much separating him from Doug Young
Seriously? This is Doug Young's All-Star record:

7th(T) in All Star voting in 1933
9th in All Star voting in 1936
10th(T) in All Star voting in 1938
(also received a single vote in both 1932 and 1940)

Woit never received a vote for the Norris, and in the years we have full all-star records, he never received a single vote for them, either.

There were only 2 All Star games in Doug Young's career - the Howie Morenz and Babe Siebert memorial games, and he was selected to one o them. Woit was never selected to an All-Star game based on merit, and by the time Woit played, it was a yearly affair. (Edit: To be fair to Woit, he won 3 Cups in his 5 years in the league, so he didn't get much chance to be selected on merit)

Woit lasted 5 seasons in the NHL. Doug Young lasted 9, and there is specific evidence that he actually left the NHL to sign a more lucrative contract in the minors.

There are sources praising Young for being a key contributor to one of his two Cups. What was Woit's contribution to Detroit's Cups?

How is this even close????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I honestly think it's hilarious you guys are trying to make a case for this...

Doug Young

7th, 9th, 10th in AS Voting (over a 5-year span)
(also received a single vote in both 1932 and 1940)

Points among D:
3rd (1936), 8th (1933), 10th (1932), 11th (1940)

Benny Who?

EHL First All-Star Team (1962, 1963)
EHL Second All-Star Team (1964)
EHL North First All-Star Team (1965)

Looks good until you consider the first letter in the name of league. There's absolutely no case to be made.

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Old
03-25-2013, 09:00 PM
  #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How is this even close????



It's not.

At all.

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