After seeing Snow stubbornly hold onto players like Satan, Knopoka (sp), PAP at the trade deadline, when he didn't get his asking price, it's tough to guess what he's do this time around.
Regardless of what he does it will be the wrong move to most of the people on here...
Scenario A: "Why did we hold on to these players to make a playoff push and still come up short. We should have known we sucked and just traded them for draft picks instead of losing them for nothing"
Scenario B: "We finally had a chance to get some playoff experience, but instead cleaned house and hoped for a high draft pick"
Scenario C: "Why did we hold on to these players to make the playoffs when we knew we would just get blown out in the first round. What a joke"
This might be a subject for another poll-How many points are the Islanders out of the play-offs
by April 3rd to be considered out of the race?
If we are out by 5 or more points by April 3 we might as well call it a season. While it might look reachable on paper it's a pipe dream and a team would have to go like 9-2 or 10-1 to make the playoffs. I might even say 4 points out should be the point we become sellers
Way I look at it if we are out by 3 points, trade Vish but keep the rest of team intact. If we out by 5 points firesale. If we out by 2 points or less then keep Vish
For the two defending Snow and the Isles til their last breath.....yeah, we're doing great. It's the building's fault. NVMC hasn't gotten one solid player for us, isn't even calling other GM's. In fact, NVMC hasn't even called one agent about a UFA. NVMC's drafting record is also suspect. Snow is far better at the job than the inanimate building. Lay off our Chipotle guy. {and quit whining about all the losing}
i expect and hope that the organization will focus on one thing. smart asset management. regardless of whether it translates into winning immediately, or tanking and vying for a blue-chipper in the next draft.
it's all about value. what are you going to get, for what you give. and this includes Tavares. i know i will get skewered by those that would sacrifice everything to change sexes and have his baby, but it really should not be 'unthinkable'.
There's actually no real justifiable talking about showing 'patience for the rebuild/youth movement' at this juncture.
The official rebuild plan was presented by Snow 'n co. to fans at the coliseum - when was it - summer of 2008? Like right before or after that draft? Wait, I think it was before, because I recall Wang jubilantly commenting on Filatov when viewing highlights of some of the top draft possibilities.
As such, this is the fifth season since and we're seeing the majority of those 'youth' standing dead in their tracks, or actually miscast.
Of the remaining core body of players who have been an internal part of the plan since Snow's presentation (as a few such as Comeau and Bergenheim were simply cast away), not a one of Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Grabner, Hamonic or MacDonald is moving 'positively forward' in his development at this point, much less playing as a fully-developed young impact player. In several cases, they look to have ended their developmental curve and simply are what they are. Okposo even appears to be reverting in development.
JT - and solely JT - has been an exception. He is the exception. He was predestined to be the exception and he's gone through his growing pains along the way, triumphing despite not being fostered in a manner 95% of the teams would foster their heralded face of the franchise and leader of the glorious future.
Martin, and now Cizikas, are two guys who fit a profile role and are conducting those roles accordingly.
More importantly, the team's progress in the standings and vis-à-vis its league competitors has been incremental, at best. A lack of marked improvement in competitiveness, if not the repeated result of being a bottom 5 team in the league, is a sign that the movement has not been a success.
This should not however be surprising.
The GM claims to be maintaining his course, keeping the faith, sticking to the plan, yada, yada, yada. There's even the built-in excuse with respect to all things 'arena', a money-losing franchise, and lack of clout on the UFA market. Still, if these parameters are truly binding and in place, then a much different manner of asset managment - particularly at the trade deadline and with respect to one's own UFAs and prospects - must be practiced.
It has not been practiced here conducive to either healthily fostering a rebuild/youth movement or rotating/gaining assets that the 'built-in excuses' prevent the team from getting elsewhere.
An attempt to be successful in this league in any way, shape or form has not been legitimately made in the five year span.
Alas, we shouldn't expect much to be different in three weeks.
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 03-13-2013 at 04:11 AM.
Regardless of what he does it will be the wrong move to most of the people on here...
Scenario A: "Why did we hold on to these players to make a playoff push and still come up short. We should have known we sucked and just traded them for draft picks instead of losing them for nothing"
Scenario B: "We finally had a chance to get some playoff experience, but instead cleaned house and hoped for a high draft pick"
Scenario C: "Why did we hold on to these players to make the playoffs when we knew we would just get blown out in the first round. What a joke"
Yep, you're right. There will be posters here representing each of these examples, dependent on what actually transpires.
But what everyone should expect of their team's GM, particularly of Snow in light of the events of recent seasons and summers past, is the following:
A) That he has determined which of our UFAs he wishes to keep and re-ups them BY THE TRADE DEADLINE.
B) That he has been able to use the 30 some games played to realistically measure just how likely the team's playoff chances are, and its odds on having any form of success should there actually be good reason to understand the team as being in the playoff race.
C) Use the trade deadline to improve this franchise, be it in adding to the on-ice product so as to strengthen the team heading into the 'expected' playoff run, or in adding assets to improve the club in future seasons. Either way, the rotating of assets must take place.
Should he do absolutely nothing, or should his moves consists of solely sending Reasoner somewhere for a 7th and Boulton somewhere for future considerations, or something of that nature, then this should and must be understood by Islander fans - particulary those paying to see the games - as little more than a slap in their face. It would downright go against the core principles of General Managing 101.
For the two defending Snow and the Isles til their last breath.....yeah, we're doing great. It's the building's fault. NVMC hasn't gotten one solid player for us, isn't even calling other GM's. In fact, NVMC hasn't even called one agent about a UFA. NVMC's drafting record is also suspect. Snow is far better at the job than the inanimate building.
Gardiner's agent is tweaking the Leafs organization, trying to force them to call Gardiner up from the AHL, the same way Nino's agent tried forcing the isles to recall Nino. Gardiner's agent tweeted #FreeGardiner.
Some of the same Leaf fans who proposed lowball offers for Nino, arguing that the isles had to trade Nino now and his value was much lower now, they are scrambling to explain Gardiner 'just wants to play in the NHL' and 'this doesn't mean he'll get traded'
Gardiner's got no more leverage to force a trade then Nino.
How would NYI fans feel about a Brock Nelson for Gardiner trade? Isles get a potential 1st pairing partner for Hamonic, can slide AMac down and still extend Streit's contract. Gardiner's on his ELC.
How would NYI fans feel about a Brock Nelson for Gardiner trade?
I wouldn't be too interested in seeing that.
Don't know much about Gardiner in general, but this team has two very legitimate forward prospects: Strome and Nelson. Nelson is looking special when taking that size and learning curve into consideration.
Everyone else has question marks, for various reasons. Only Nino could join those two as legitimate future NHLers with respect to scoring potential.
On the other hand, it drafted 7 Dmen last season (one at #4 overall) and 11 total over the past two drafts. Throw in de Haan and Donovan for whom spots need to be found relatively soon (or they'll need to be moved) and the contracts of Hamonic, MacDonald and Strait, and well this would be moving something we don't have much of for something we've been adding to the stockpile furiously over less than a 20 month period.
In addition, me is a thinkin' that Nelson is the long-term #2 center solution - also a mega question mark for this franchise in recent years.
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 03-13-2013 at 01:55 PM.
OK.....who does better on Tavares' other wing than Boyes? PLEASE tell me. One point Nino?
I'd love to see Nelson, maybe Matrin or someone ready for NHL hockey, but going down the reality roster.....NO ONE plays better on the wing there than the former 30 goal guy.
Just tell me who since this is going into every thread. It's like I'm telling people DP will bust all over again.
OK.....who does better on Tavares' other wing than Boyes? PLEASE tell me. One point Nino?
Maybe we set the bar higher and try to get someone better? Maybe we can get Schremp back? He scored points too. Besides, this "who better" stuff is just continued rationalization in defense of this bozo.
Quote:
I'd love to see Nelson, maybe Matrin or someone ready for NHL hockey, but going down the reality roster.....NO ONE plays better on the wing there than the former 30 goal guy.
Boyes hasn't gotten 30 goals since the first Iron Man movie came out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey
Just tell me who since this is going into every thread.
Aw, come on. I'm haaaaahdly even trying!
Also, I'm a little disappointed... you didn't even catch my "You really like Boyes" joke earlier. C'mon man.
Last edited by Richie Daggers Crime: 03-13-2013 at 02:35 PM.
Okposo's salary is gonna be $3m next season. According to Staples recent midseason grades article, Snow has gotten plenty of calls about trading Okposo.
The problem is, Staples says they are lowball offers, which don't interest Snow.
And I couldn't disagree more about MacDonald being available. He plays 1st pairing minutes, making a dirt cheap $550,000 per season. Snow would not trade MacDonald.
maybe they are just fair offers and Snow is out to lunch when it comes to what this guys value is.
Snow doesnt have to trade Amac. I would trade him. I dont think he is anything more then a depth Dman...
Maybe we set the bar higher and try to get someone better? Maybe we can get Schremp back? He scored points too. Besides, this "who better" stuff is just continued rationalization in defense of this bozo.
No.....it's an acceptance that no matter what, no matter how EASY it would be to improve this team.....Garth Snow "is free to spend."
Quote:
Boyes hasn't gotten 30 goals since the first Iron Man movie came out.
Aw, come on. I'm haaaaahdly even trying!
Also, I'm a little disappointed... you didn't even catch my "You really like Boyes" joke earlier. C'mon man.
But he has more points per game with Tavares than Okposo did. Probably more than Bailey would have.
We're stuck. When served a plate of ***** sandwiches....which one is best? Boyes happens to be the nicest looking ***** sandwich we have or will get.
We could try Aucoin or Carkner or someone else who came this offseason to catapult us in the standings?
maybe they are just fair offers and Snow is out to lunch when it comes to what this guys value is.
...
Considering that I've seen NYI fans propose he has no trade value or somehow can't be moved because of that whopping $2m-$3m salary, I'm gonna give Snow the benefit of the doubt, gonna believe that Snow's gotten lowball offers and has a better understanding then message board fans.
If others choose to believe Snow overvalues Okposo or that Snow has gotten 'fair' offers... well that's on them. Kind of reminds me of having our beatwriter's comments dismissed because they aren't what we want to hear.
I've seen Bailey on the ice with Tavares in 4-on-4 OT play, but I still cannot fathom that he hasn't been put on that RW side with JT and Moulson for a good 3-5 games.
Considering that I've seen NYI fans propose he has no trade value or somehow can't be moved because of that whopping $2m-$3m salary, I'm gonna give Snow the benefit of the doubt, gonna believe that Snow's gotten lowball offers and has a better understanding then message board fans.
If others choose to believe Snow overvalues Okposo or that Snow has gotten 'fair' offers... well that's on them. Kind of reminds me of having our beatwriter's comments dismissed because they aren't what we want to hear.
How many players are playing lights out when they do get traded? You can use the "well right now he isn't producing so we won't get fair value back" argument to never trade anyone ever again. Yet trades happen. At Kyle's age and his consistent slide into invisibility he is on the path to yield nothing at some point.
How many players are playing lights out when they do get traded? You can use the "well right now he isn't producing so we won't get fair value back" argument to never trade anyone ever again. Yet trades happen. At Kyle's age and his consistent slide into invisibility he is on the path to yield nothing at some point.
The poster stated that the isles will have trouble moving Okposo because his salary is going up. I pointed out that Snow's reportedly gotten plenty of KO offers this season, but Snow's passing on them because he thinks they are lowball offers.
The guy then says Snow's overvaluing Okposo. How can anyone accuse Snow of overvaluing Okposo, when we don't know what was offered? I choose to believe Snow has a better idea of what's being offered, what's fair, over message board fans who (based on what gut feelings?), think Snow's asking for too much.
The poster stated that the isles will have trouble moving Okposo because his salary is going up. I pointed out that Snow's reportedly gotten plenty of KO offers this season, but Snow's passing on them because he thinks they are lowball offers.
The guy then says Snow's overvaluing Okposo. How can anyone accuse Snow of overvaluing Okposo, when we don't know what was offered? I choose to believe Snow has a better idea of what's being offered, what's fair, over message board fans who (based on what gut feelings?), think Snow's asking for too much.
The Isles need a true NHL coach on this team before they start moving undervalued assists due to poor environment and coaching.
nobody on the organization currently would get more points on that line but anyone else would allow fewer goals than currently.
those count too, don't they?
They do. Anyway, it's been weeks since the Tavares line with Boyes has produced anything 5 on 5. Boyes has scored half his points on the PP, where the team can set up in the zone and doesn't have to compete physically for time or space. There's a reason this guy has been a 4th liner for 3 years now... he's ineffectual. Yet, we have those that love these types. To each their own, I guess. I wonder who the Isles will draft this year?
How many players are playing lights out when they do get traded? You can use the "well right now he isn't producing so we won't get fair value back" argument to never trade anyone ever again. Yet trades happen. At Kyle's age and his consistent slide into invisibility he is on the path to yield nothing at some point.
Exactly. Play is sliding, contract is going up. 3, 3.5, 4.5 over next 3 years. Who wants to pay Okposo 4.5 mil right now in 3 years?
The poster stated that the isles will have trouble moving Okposo because his salary is going up. I pointed out that Snow's reportedly gotten plenty of KO offers this season, but Snow's passing on them because he thinks they are lowball offers.
The guy then says Snow's overvaluing Okposo. How can anyone accuse Snow of overvaluing Okposo, when we don't know what was offered? I choose to believe Snow has a better idea of what's being offered, what's fair, over message board fans who (based on what gut feelings?), think Snow's asking for too much.
It was an off handed comment that said "Maybe Snow.."..
nobody on the organization currently would get more points on that line but anyone else would allow fewer goals than currently.
those count too, don't they?
I think martin or bailey would outscore Boyes 5on5 on the top line.
and DP well be back soon OTH
don't kijiji that #39 3rd jersey just yet.
I'd like to see Bailey tried on wing on line 1 but....he HAS TO SHOOT. The defense would improve greatly. Martin? I don't think the offense improves. I think we have a little more toughness protecting JT and MM but I don't think it helps enough. I would still like to see it as Martin works very hard and he IS killing penalties. He just has to change his game defensively, being the first one back but getting in on the rush.
Honestly the solution is out there.....but Snow has to acquire it via trade.
{and quit whining about all the losing}
