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NYR and JETS

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:02 AM
  #26
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I take this deal and run. With Wheeler and Nash on the team it'd be like having the Twin Towers back in Manhattan

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:23 AM
  #27
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I wouldn't mind Gaborik, that contract is a bit scary, but he can still put some goals up.

I just wouldnt be interested in paying what it would take.

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:33 AM
  #28
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The argument that the Jets wouldn't be interested simply because he's soon to be a UFA isn't valid. Since Gaborik has a NTC, if you assume he waives it (which he wouldn't to go to the Jets, but that's another argument), he would do so because he wanted to re-sign there. He's not trying to leave the NYR.

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Old
03-11-2013, 07:49 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashripdot View Post
The argument that the Jets wouldn't be interested simply because he's soon to be a UFA isn't valid. Since Gaborik has a NTC, if you assume he waives it (which he wouldn't to go to the Jets, but that's another argument), he would do so because he wanted to re-sign there. He's not trying to leave the NYR.
The argument isn't that the "Jets wouldn't be interested simply because he's soon to be a UFA", but rather is that the Jets wouldn't be interested in Gaborik to begin with.

Regarding your comments though, the Jets wouldn't be interested in re-signing a player that age to begin with, nor would the cost to the Jets justify the return. The Jets are a team building a young squad via the draft; they aren't giving up a pick for a player that old. Nor would they trade a young RFA such as Little or Wheeler for a player that old (and one that is seemingly injured 50% of the time at that).

The premise behind this trade proposal is completely flawed. The Jets are a team acquiring young and cheap assets while building at current. They are not on a cup run so it makes zero sense for them to trade for an old player on an expensive contract - while making their team softer at the same time. It makes no sense to the Jets whatsoever in fact.

No deal from Winnipeg - regardless of the cost.

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Old
03-11-2013, 08:38 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Nice theory, except that the Jets aren't trading for a Gaborik type though. They've zero use for an older perimeter player that is injured 50% of the time, none. When proposing a trade it is best to consider the needs of your theoretical trading partner. The Jets would have nil interest in this sort of player.
Just so you know. Gaborik has played in 90% of his teams games as a New York Rangers player.

Just incase you care about FACTS.

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:33 AM
  #31
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The OP works for either side, but can understand some Jet posters' objections.

It is not impossible for a deal but it will take some creativity.

To deal with Gaborik staying, would have to have Jets negotiate extension, then deal becomes effective sign and trade.

But the bigger question is, is this the best deal for both teams?
Rangers getting better offers for Gabs from Sens and elsewhere.

I'd like to suggest Gab + for EKane + .
We'd have to overpay for EKane, but if its reasonable overpay, not crazy massive overpay, that could still win win.

The idea is Gabby offers sniper history, other pieces = depth = overall Jet improvement.
Rangers get another major gear for their machine.

The biggest problem there is Rangers are extremely thin at C, and the best realistic trade piece is Stepan, who is, beginning over the last month, elevated his game and is finally looking more and more like a lower 1C, not just a top 2C. Stepan reunited with Little, while keeping Wheeler, has upside for Winn.

Let's assume Rangers can deal with that.

Let's also assume Rangers can do Brian Boyle + Christian Thomas to Chicago for Dylan Olsen + Mark McNeil, esp. since CBH are now kicking on all cylinders, Olsen is surplus, McNeil way down, and Boyle = good injury insurance w/o touching their parent roster.


Gaborik, Stepan, Girardi, Rangers 2nd 2013, best two of three Ranger 3rds 2013
for
EKane, Postma, Jet 1st 2013 and a lower throw in C to help our roster rest of the season.
Maybe Rangers do partial cap/salary relief on Gaborik for balance of this year, and you upgrade that throw in C, becomes Rangers 4C

---
Rangers D also stretched thinner but
Staal McD
MDZ Stralman
Gilroy Postma
add Olsen
Hamrlik
McIlrath knocking, w/pickup gets the job done, Staal full recovery expected.

so the lines, this year........

EKane Richards Nash
Hagelin Miller Callahan
Kreider Halpern Pyatt
Bickel Powe Asham
throw in C
McNeil
.... improve next season based on trades, FA, promotions to Lindberg, Fast

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:44 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
No, they wouldn't. Looking at value in a vacuum in worthless. The Rangers are trying to wins a Stanley Cup. This trade makes a Stanley CUp win less likely.
Being realistic, I think they should worry about making the playoffs first... The East is a very close race right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
No.
Young roster player + top prospect + first is the cost to get Gaborik.

Wings, Nashville and Sens have better offers.
I don't feel he is worth all of that, to any team... Only teams I could think of trading for him would be high-contention teams looking for a top forward to complete their roster. And Winnipeg is not that team.

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:56 AM
  #33
TheRightWay
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Originally Posted by NJDevilsFan44 View Post
Being realistic, I think they should worry about making the playoffs first... The East is a very close race right now.




I don't feel he is worth all of that, to any team... Only teams I could think of trading for him would be high-contention teams looking for a top forward to complete their roster. And Winnipeg is not that team.
Aside from maybe one or two teams, pretty much EVERYONE is worrying about making the playoffs. That's the reality of the shortened season. Based on last season, the roster, and the results the Rangers have put up when reasonable healthy (for all the talk about the "underachieving" Rangers they're a whole six points out of the division lead with 2 games in hand) you and I and everyone in the world knows that the Rangers are a lot closer to winning a cup than most teams in the league; at the least, the closest we've been since 1997.

But let's assume the worst: let's say the Rangers bomb out and miss the playoffs this season. Given the nature of it; shortened season, half-assed training camp, etc., would you really declare it the end of their window of opportunity? Regardless of what happens this year, we'll still be in the mix next year. This isn't Eastside Hockey Manager, it is difficult to build a contender, and it is difficult to find 40 goal scorers. We're not moving Gaborik for the package a rebuilding team would seek.

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Old
03-11-2013, 09:57 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
The OP works for either side, but can understand some Jet posters' objections.

It is not impossible for a deal but it will take some creativity.

To deal with Gaborik staying, would have to have Jets negotiate extension, then deal becomes effective sign and trade.

But the bigger question is, is this the best deal for both teams?
Rangers getting better offers for Gabs from Sens and elsewhere.

I'd like to suggest Gab + for EKane + .
We'd have to overpay for EKane, but if its reasonable overpay, not crazy massive overpay, that could still win win.

The idea is Gabby offers sniper history, other pieces = depth = overall Jet improvement.
Rangers get another major gear for their machine.

The biggest problem there is Rangers are extremely thin at C, and the best realistic trade piece is Stepan, who is, beginning over the last month, elevated his game and is finally looking more and more like a lower 1C, not just a top 2C. Stepan reunited with Little, while keeping Wheeler, has upside for Winn.

Let's assume Rangers can deal with that.

Let's also assume Rangers can do Brian Boyle + Christian Thomas to Chicago for Dylan Olsen + Mark McNeil, esp. since CBH are now kicking on all cylinders, Olsen is surplus, McNeil way down, and Boyle = good injury insurance w/o touching their parent roster.


Gaborik, Stepan, Girardi, Rangers 2nd 2013, best two of three Ranger 3rds 2013
for
EKane, Postma, Jet 1st 2013 and a lower throw in C to help our roster rest of the season.
Maybe Rangers do partial cap/salary relief on Gaborik for balance of this year, and you upgrade that throw in C, becomes Rangers 4C

---
Rangers D also stretched thinner but
Staal McD
MDZ Stralman
Gilroy Postma
add Olsen
Hamrlik
McIlrath knocking, w/pickup gets the job done, Staal full recovery expected.

so the lines, this year........

EKane Richards Nash
Hagelin Miller Callahan
Kreider Halpern Pyatt
Bickel Powe Asham
throw in C
McNeil
.... improve next season based on trades, FA, promotions to Lindberg, Fast
[MOD] The Rangers have effectively spent 15 years getting to the point where they could finally be a contender. Now we're going to completely blow that up for no good reason other than [MOD] for massive, aimless trades?


Last edited by spiny norman: 03-11-2013 at 11:39 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
03-11-2013, 10:06 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Just so you know. Gaborik has played in 90% of his teams games as a New York Rangers player.
Great! Hope you guys enjoy him because he is a player of no interest to a young Jets team that is currently building via the draft and currently not on a serious run for the cup. No need for the Jets to acquire your old and soft player on an expensive contract at this time.

Cheers.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:08 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Great! Hope you guys enjoy him because he is a player of no interest to a young Jets team that is currently building via the draft and currently not on a serious run for the cup. No need for the Jets to acquire your old and soft player at this time.

Cheers.
I don't think his goal was to convince you that the trade was worth it for the Jets; just to point out the commonly held myth about Gaborik's health in the last few years.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:11 AM
  #37
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The Jets counter with an offer of Burmistrov for Callahan.

Wait, that doesn't fit your needs or even make any sense?

Huh! I guess we are on an even footing now in this thread.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:27 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dashripdot View Post
The argument that the Jets wouldn't be interested simply because he's soon to be a UFA isn't valid. Since Gaborik has a NTC, if you assume he waives it (which he wouldn't to go to the Jets, but that's another argument), he would do so because he wanted to re-sign there. He's not trying to leave the NYR.
LOL alright. What about the argument that he's way older than the Jets core and they won't be contending before his play has dropped off?

Maybe after this deal is done you can convince Blue Jackets fans that they should sell the farm for Iginla

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:30 AM
  #39
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almost all of the jets players are just approaching there prime, including Wheeler. Why from a jets standpoint do you make this trade?

I don't understand why from a rangers standpoint either, other then to downgrade gaborik for wheeler in an attempt to prolong there window so to speak.

Wheelers a 60 pt forward with 4 years of peak performance left in him. Gaborik is a 80-90 pt player past his peak performance time (meanign he's unlikely to ever get back to those numbers). Even if Gaborik came with an extension, it doesn't make sense. Wheeler, ladd, litte, buff, and enstrom, are all within 2 years of eachother. Having your 2 best dmen and your best line all in the exact same window is fantastic. Why would the jets break that up, and trade an appreciating asset for depreciating one?

On the rangers side, it's not as if gaboriks going to break his hip the next time he steps on the ice. He should be at least as good as wheeler is for the next 3-4 years, which is realistically what i would consider the rangers window to be.

Both players fit their current teams windows, roles, and performance better then the trade partners. There's zero reason to make the trade for either side, unless the other side overpays (which is what i would say the Original Wheeler, Postma, 1st was), but unless a GM has a mancrush on the player in question, there's no reason for them to overpay.

There are two types of teams that would give up an equivelent package for Gaborik

1. a contender type team with a lot of "good" talent and prospect depth (thus moving some depth + a "good" piece for a "great" piece) (LA last year)
2. A team severely underperforming who's GM job is on the line if he doesn't turn it around quick.(Columbus two years ago)


Winnipeg is pretty much as far as you could possibly be from either of those scenarios.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:31 AM
  #40
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No.
Young roster player + top prospect + first is the cost to get Gaborik.

Wings, Nashville and Sens have better offers.
Really, we do??

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:45 AM
  #41
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Gaby is a very good player.....but the Jets want players on their way up not on their way down....our window is years away so we are building towards that time and a quickly ageing 40 goal scorer 8 mil player with a year left on his deal is not what we want right now in exchange for young pieces sorry.....Other teams further along in their development will make better trading partners we are not interested.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:03 AM
  #42
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Doesn't make sense for either side.

Jets are completing a rebuild. Rangers are in win now.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:48 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The Jets counter with an offer of Burmistrov for Callahan.

Wait, that doesn't fit your needs or even make any sense?

Huh! I guess we are on an even footing now in this thread.
You think you're making other people look stupid. Thing is, you're the only one who looks that way.

I've said this in other threads and i'll put it here again.

Tell me, how many players scored 40 goals last season.

Tell me, how many players have put up 100+ goals over the last 3 years.

Tell me, how many players have had 2 40 goal seasons in the last three.

Tell me the value of those guys and why Gaborik shouldn't be considered worth in the realm they are.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:59 AM
  #44
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You think you're making other people look stupid. Thing is, you're the only one who looks that way.

I've said this in other threads and i'll put it here again.

Tell me, how many players scored 40 goals last season.

Tell me, how many players have put up 100+ goals over the last 3 years.

Tell me, how many players have had 2 40 goal seasons in the last three.

Tell me the value of those guys and why Gaborik shouldn't be considered worth in the realm they are.
The chief argument in this thread AGAINST the Jets trading for Gaborik is his age, because Winnipeg needs youth and isn't in a playoff run.

You know, as if the Jets aren't sitting 2 points behind the Rangers and shouldn't be thinking they could be an 8th seed or anything.

The age argument against Gaborik is flawed in so many ways - Gaborik is effectively 3 years younger than his real age because he missed SO MUCH TIME. He's healthy, dynamic and frankly, I couldn't give a **** if WPG doesn't want to pay for him - he can continue doing his thing for us.

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03-11-2013, 12:28 PM
  #45
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The chief argument in this thread AGAINST the Jets trading for Gaborik is his age, because Winnipeg needs youth and isn't in a playoff run.

You know, as if the Jets aren't sitting 2 points behind the Rangers and shouldn't be thinking they could be an 8th seed or anything.

The age argument against Gaborik is flawed in so many ways - Gaborik is effectively 3 years younger than his real age because he missed SO MUCH TIME. He's healthy, dynamic and frankly, I couldn't give a **** if WPG doesn't want to pay for him - he can continue doing his thing for us.
The point isn't where we are right now. you didn't see ottawa go on a spending spree at the deadline last year.

the point is we are just on the cusp of making the playoffs.

Getting aplayer like gaborik would make us a thrat to actually get out of the first round, but that's it. It does not take us from one and done to stanley up contender. the point is that boost, isn't really worth anything to Winnipeg. It just means Gaborik become a main piece for a 3-4 years, and we artificially create a premature window for us as now after those three years, were short what would have been a player in his prime (wheeler). realistically, in 3 years is exactly when we would be after a guy like Gaborik.

at the end of the day, Regardless of NYR's think, Gaborik is not a piece for the Jets plan right now. I'm not saying he isn't a phenominal hockey player. What i'm saying is even getting 3-4 years of him is not worth what it would cost for Winnipeg.

And the "effectively three years younger" has no precedent. I dont' think you can find any sort of pattern historically that backs up the claim that missing time to injury in your career prolongs it. Remember, one or two instances is NOT a pattern.

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03-11-2013, 12:31 PM
  #46
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The chief argument in this thread AGAINST the Jets trading for Gaborik is his age, because Winnipeg needs youth and isn't in a playoff run.

You know, as if the Jets aren't sitting 2 points behind the Rangers and shouldn't be thinking they could be an 8th seed or anything.

The age argument against Gaborik is flawed in so many ways - Gaborik is effectively 3 years younger than his real age because he missed SO MUCH TIME. He's healthy, dynamic and frankly, I couldn't give a **** if WPG doesn't want to pay for him - he can continue doing his thing for us.
He's 31 and coming off a 40 goal season and arguably the best of his career.

It's not like he's some 37 year old on the downside of his career.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:40 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Great! Hope you guys enjoy him because he is a player of no interest to a young Jets team that is currently building via the draft and currently not on a serious run for the cup. No need for the Jets to acquire your old and soft player on an expensive contract at this time.

Cheers.
Never tried to convince you other wise.

It would be nice to have smart ass posters like yourself actually know WTF you are talking about when running a guy down.

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:41 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
You think you're making other people look stupid. Thing is, you're the only one who looks that way.

I've said this in other threads and i'll put it here again.

Tell me, how many players scored 40 goals last season.

Tell me, how many players have put up 100+ goals over the last 3 years.

Tell me, how many players have had 2 40 goal seasons in the last three.

Tell me the value of those guys and why Gaborik shouldn't be considered worth in the realm they are.
Sorry, but you've extrapolated way more from my comments than was intended. I'd add that, unlike yourself apparently, I'm confident enough in my own opinions that I don't need to resort to pejorative terms such as "stupid" in an attempt to prove a point to another.

Gaborik has awesome value, I'd agree. He just has little value however to a young team that is being structured in the manner the Jets currently are. That is kind of the point. Gaborik has high value to a contending team. The Jets young core however is several years away from that point and management are in the process of building a team from burnt ashes, a team with virtually no depth whatsoever. It makes zero sense for the Jets to pursue a player like Gaborik, to essentially trade youth and or depth for an aging veteran and by extension leaving them with not much in the cupboard going forward, but then again I'd have thought that should be self-evident to such a smart guy as yourself.

In other words, he has great value, but not here.


Last edited by Gump Hasek: 03-11-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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03-11-2013, 01:02 PM
  #49
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Gaborik for Burmistrov Potsma and a pick

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03-11-2013, 01:06 PM
  #50
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Gaborik for Burmistrov Potsma and a pick
If it was a later pick then you are probably getting much warmer than any of the other wild theories being floated in this thread. The players you mentioned are at least likely to be available for the right return. Not sure Gaborik really fits here, but at that cost perhaps? I'm thinking that the Jets management would prefer a different type of player though, they seek truculence.


Good suggestion though; it is at least within the realm of possibility.

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