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Old
03-10-2013, 10:50 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I wasn't even referencing the times where he was a healthy scratch, but yes, there are those as well.
Yeah I guess he's not even on the bench when he's a scratch.

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03-10-2013, 10:52 PM
  #102
Hank Chinaski
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
still pretty amazing that we could be so low in all those statistics and still be respectable.....if only we could improve on a few of them, we would be a different team.
Fully agree.

The PP is by far the most perplexing. It's been 12th in the league for the last two season, and we have essentially the same guys at our disposal, not to mention another one (Jokinen) who was supposed to bolster the powerplay. I realize Enstrom's injury is a huge blow, but I don't recall our PP being that bad when he was sidelined last season.

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03-10-2013, 10:54 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Fully agree.

The PP is by far the most perplexing. It's been 12th in the league for the last two season, and we have essentially the same guys at our disposal, not to mention another one (Jokinen) who was supposed to bolster the powerplay. I realize Enstrom's injury is a huge blow, but I don't recall our PP being that bad when he was sidelined last season.
Perry Pearn?

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03-10-2013, 10:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Tarks View Post
Can't be happy with the 1 point. Losers are happy with that. Playoff teams get 2.
Lucky to get the looser point tonight IMO.

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03-10-2013, 10:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
thanks...so for reference:

shifts over one minute:

jokinen: 9
kane : 13
ladd: 7
little: 7
wheeler: 7
tangradi: 3 of 6 shifts

the reality is that you cant take one game as a reference...if you can prove that this is a trend, maybe your argument has some validity....if not, it hardly warrants benching him over far inferior players....

even if long shifts is the reason Noel believes he should bench Burmistrov, then I would suggest there are better ways to deal with that issue....as a coach he should figure it out without resorting to that......Burmistrov hardly seems like an egotist who wont listen to his coach.
The fact is that he is a young player and not playing that well in the last few games so its warranted

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03-10-2013, 10:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Perry Pearn?
I knew I left that door wide open.

It's hard to say. I do think their PP has been quite a bit better over the last 3 games, unfortunately the results just haven't been there.

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03-10-2013, 10:58 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
Burmistrov with 9 minutes of ice time.
Jokinen with 19.

Wassup wit dat
Pretty simple answer, Burmi has played like crap the last ten games. He turns the puck over every time it touches his stick and is NOT any kind of offensive threat.

Kane actually had a good game (10 shots) playing with Joki and Mittens who both had better games tonight. Don't know what game some of you were watching who thought Burmi was playing well.


Last edited by sipowicz: 03-10-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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03-10-2013, 11:05 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Fully agree.

The PP is by far the most perplexing. It's been 12th in the league for the last two season, and we have essentially the same guys at our disposal, not to mention another one (Jokinen) who was supposed to bolster the powerplay. I realize Enstrom's injury is a huge blow, but I don't recall our PP being that bad when he was sidelined last season.
There's also hardly any time to practice the PP. Both at practice and in the games... seeing as the opposition so rarely takes a penalty against us.

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03-10-2013, 11:05 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Fully agree.

The PP is by far the most perplexing. It's been 12th in the league for the last two season, and we have essentially the same guys at our disposal, not to mention another one (Jokinen) who was supposed to bolster the powerplay. I realize Enstrom's injury is a huge blow, but I don't recall our PP being that bad when he was sidelined last season.
The unfderlying numbers suggest that the powerplay unit got pretty lucky last year. They were terrible from a shots perspective, but shot a relatively high percentage.

I am confused by it too. Olli has been a PP beast throughout his career. I thought he would help the unit.

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03-10-2013, 11:07 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
With the talent that is on this roster? Pretty much every talking hockey head talks about how crap the roster is. Multiple people in the Winnipeg media went so far as to say we have the worst 3rd and 4th line in the league.

I think the talking heads are crazy, but this is not an easy 1sy place roster, especially hen it gets inconsistent goaltending. The Jets are dressing 3 waiver wire pickups evert night. They aren't a loaded roster. I still think Noel gets a decent amount out of this team. I didn't expect a ton more than .500
At the end of the day, this team got better on paper, and we are no better in terms of standings then we were last year. Watching the Jets play, you see alot of gaffs out there. Lots of turnovers. Defensively this time is sub par. They need to start winning face offs in the defensive zone. Face offs in general.

Shots need to hit the net. The Defensive side of the house need to be better about eliminating the shooting lanes and the second third shots. It's a good thing that Pavs has been standing on his head for the last couple or we would have been ****ed.

Our PP is AWFUL. Everyone and their dog knows it, and the fact that it hasn't been fixed yet is ridiculous.

This team looks ****ing stacked when you compare it to other teams that are in the playoffs. Compare it to Ottawa, Mtl and Toronto. On paper we have a better roster, yet here we are still a 500 team.

Noel is not getting enough out of his team. Worse teams are currently do better then us.

That's what I call ridiculous.

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03-10-2013, 11:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
There's also hardly any time to practice the PP. Both at practice and in the games... seeing as the opposition so rarely takes a penalty against us.
Yep. Just checked, Jets get 2.96 PP opportunities per game, lowest in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
The unfderlying numbers suggest that the powerplay unit got pretty lucky last year. They were terrible from a shots perspective, but shot a relatively high percentage.

I am confused by it too. Olli has been a PP beast throughout his career. I thought he would help the unit.
Is PP efficiency strongly correlated with shot volume? That seems likely, but there probably are some units that remain successful despite a lower than average shot volume (ie. meticulous PPs that work the puck into the best possible scoring positions).

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03-10-2013, 11:18 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Pretty simple answer, Burmi has played like crap the last ten games. He turns the puck over every time it touches his stick and is NOT any kind of offensive threat.

Kane actually had a good game (10 shots) playing with Joki and Mittens who both had better games tonight. Don't know what game some of you were watching who thought Burmi was playing well.
The NHL now tracks that stat - it's called giveaways, and Burmistrov only has 7 all year. For reference, Byfuglien leads the team with 24 giveaways. Kane, Antropov, Jokinen all have many more than Burmi. Actually, of the players that have played over 20 games, only 4 Jets have fewer giveways than Burmi. So, this tells me he's actually quite cautious with the puck. Another indicator of this is his +6 rating, which is 2nd best on the Jets. Compare that to Jokinen who is a -11.

I agree he hasn't created a ton of scoring chances, but consider this: He's (arguably) amongst the most talented player on the Jets, yet is 12th on the team in powerplay minutes (gravy time for points). Jokinen also only has 7 points but has played a whopping 64 powerplay minutes!!!

So why isn't Burmistrov more productive with his ice time? Well, he's 2nd on the team (amongst forwards) in Shorthanded minutes - so that makes it difficult to score. He's been given nearly zero 4 on 4 ice time. Has yet to play a second of overtime (even Tangretti, Wright, Mietenen have overtime minutes played). Essentially, for whatever reason, Noel doesn't give him "plum ice-time" to get him going. Wheeler, Kane, Little, Ladd certainly all EARN their plum ice time. I don't understand why Jokinen and Antropov deserve those opportunities more than Burmi.

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03-10-2013, 11:20 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Yep. Just checked, Jets get 2.96 PP opportunities per game, lowest in the league.



Is PP efficiency strongly correlated with shot volume? That seems likely, but there probably are some units that remain successful despite a lower than average shot volume (ie. meticulous PPs that work the puck into the best possible scoring positions).
Not Boston or Anaheim? Both of those teams have had less PP's this season than the Jets....who have had the 3rd least PP's. (78)

Montreal...120 PP's. That is crazy. Is that the refs responding to homer crowds?

Interestingly the Jets also have been shorthanded the 3rd least times. (74 times) so they are actually reasonably disciplined. The team that has been shorthanded the most? Philly and Buffalo with 108.

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03-10-2013, 11:21 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Yep. Just checked, Jets get 2.96 PP opportunities per game, lowest in the league.



Is PP efficiency strongly correlated with shot volume? That seems likely, but there probably are some units that remain successful despite a lower than average shot volume (ie. meticulous PPs that work the puck into the best possible scoring positions).
Shot volume helps. Problem with tracking it statistically is that the year to year samples are small and teams change a bunch year to year.

In the case of the Jets (who rely a lot on point shots) I would imagine it is a big factor. Point shots are less likely to result in a goal than anything in close.

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03-10-2013, 11:24 PM
  #115
Hank Chinaski
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Not Boston or Anaheim? Both of those teams have had less PP's this season than the Jets....who have had the 3rd least PP's. (78)
Factor in games played, both teams have slightly more per game.

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03-10-2013, 11:27 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Shot volume helps. Problem with tracking it statistically is that the year to year samples are small and teams change a bunch year to year.

In the case of the Jets (who rely a lot on point shots) I would imagine it is a big factor. Point shots are less likely to result in a goal than anything in close.
The problem is that they need to shoot the ****ing puck instead of passing it around. You cannot score from a pass...eventually you need to wind up and take a shot.

Another problem is not hitting the net. That is something that they need to get alot better with.

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03-10-2013, 11:29 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Not Boston or Anaheim? Both of those teams have had less PP's this season than the Jets....who have had the 3rd least PP's. (78)

Montreal...120 PP's. That is crazy. Is that the refs responding to homer crowds?
I think you are actually onto something. The Jets also play the majority of their games at home over the second half of the season so hopefully their numbers of pp opportunities might increase.

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03-10-2013, 11:31 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by jimsabo21 View Post
The NHL now tracks that stat - it's called giveaways, and Burmistrov only has 7 all year. For reference, Byfuglien leads the team with 24 giveaways. Kane, Antropov, Jokinen all have many more than Burmi. Actually, of the players that have played over 20 games, only 4 Jets have fewer giveways than Burmi. So, this tells me he's actually quite cautious with the puck. Another indicator of this is his +6 rating, which is 2nd best on the Jets. Compare that to Jokinen who is a -11.

I agree he hasn't created a ton of scoring chances, but consider this: He's (arguably) amongst the most talented player on the Jets, yet is 12th on the team in powerplay minutes (gravy time for points). Jokinen also only has 7 points but has played a whopping 64 powerplay minutes!!!

So why isn't Burmistrov more productive with his ice time? Well, he's 2nd on the team (amongst forwards) in Shorthanded minutes - so that makes it difficult to score. He's been given nearly zero 4 on 4 ice time. Has yet to play a second of overtime (even Tangretti, Wright, Mietenen have overtime minutes played). Essentially, for whatever reason, Noel doesn't give him "plum ice-time" to get him going. Wheeler, Kane, Little, Ladd certainly all EARN their plum ice time. I don't understand why Jokinen and Antropov deserve those opportunities more than Burmi.
I don't know what they consider a giveaway, but I've seen Burmi turn the puck over to the opposition more than 7 times in a game. Do you watch the games? Pretty simple answer to why Burmi ISN'T on the PP or 4 on 4, he can't be trusted with the puck, he has a high probability of turning it over, he will take the puck from the neutral zone into his own end, because he can't make a pass, because he is ineffective with the puck, because he has a weak shot, because he cannot hit the net with his shot...take your pick.

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03-10-2013, 11:33 PM
  #119
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I think Burmi's play has warranted a kick in the ass over the past 5 games or so. But I'd be shocked if he was traded. The kid needs a wake up call for some really bad sloppiness. I'm not overly critical when I watch, but there were times I was shouting **** you Burmi almost as loud as I swear at Clitdumb.

I used to think Clitbum was a nice enough guy and gave us some good minutes when we needed a 7th/8th D. Shake hands and say good-bye when his contract is up. Now I want Chevy to be mean when he finally says **** off.

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03-10-2013, 11:35 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
The problem is that they need to shoot the ****ing puck instead of passing it around. You cannot score from a pass...eventually you need to wind up and take a shot.

Another problem is not hitting the net. That is something that they need to get alot better with.
I pulled the team by team missed shots numbers a while back
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/...issing-the-net

I did a player by player breakdown too
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/...ayer-breakdown

I should see if it improved.

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03-10-2013, 11:37 PM
  #121
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There's a difference between a giveaway and getting dispossessed. From SBNation; "A giveaway is defined as a play where a player's own actions and decision-making results in the loss of team possession of the puck. "

It's very ambiguous, but I believe it's when a player passes the puck to the other team. Burmi gets his pocket picked when he's stick handling. The puck is taken away, not given away. Bottom line:

You need to pass in order to pass the puck to the other team

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03-10-2013, 11:38 PM
  #122
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Its sad Burmi gets benched more than any other teammate. Personally I think it's Noel coaching. So how long do the Jets put up with an average coach that's not NHL caliber. My guess is the all star break next year.

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03-10-2013, 11:41 PM
  #123
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The problem is that they need to shoot the ****ing puck instead of passing it around. You cannot score from a pass...eventually you need to wind up and take a shot.

Another problem is not hitting the net. That is something that they need to get alot better with.
I couldn't disagree more. It's not as if the Jets are over-passing in the offensive zone - they are NEVER SET UP in the offensive zone. Our powerplay is as ugly and scrambly as an NHL PP can possibly be. I think we need some creativity in zone entry, then actually string together 3 or 4 crisp passes to get the PK on its heals. THEN you shoot the puck. Shooting when you're not set up properly usually leads to an easy save and a dump out of zone.

I think all of hockey is overly cliched - for example, everyone says "we just need to simplify". What is simpler than the Jets dump and chase powerplay? Maybe we need add some COMPLEXITY in zone entry that may actually confuse the PK? Maybe we should set-up the powerplay from the half-boards instead of looking to feed the point ALL THE TIME like 90% of NHL teams do these days. The reason? Your most gifted players are usually your forwards, so let them handle the puck. You don't need to be Crosby to have the vision to make a cross-crease pass or to setup a one timer in the slot. Moderately good forwards can do it too ... but the powerplay needs to be set-up to do it. Jets NEVER play from the half boards ... we're in pure cycle mode even on the PP it seems

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03-10-2013, 11:46 PM
  #124
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I'm not sure how much weight I put into the giveaway stat. I mean check out this list of the top giveaway players this year. Interesting list. Seems to be dominated by defensemen.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

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03-10-2013, 11:48 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by jimsabo21 View Post
I couldn't disagree more. It's not as if the Jets are over-passing in the offensive zone - they are NEVER SET UP in the offensive zone. Our powerplay is as ugly and scrambly as an NHL PP can possibly be. I think we need some creativity in zone entry, then actually string together 3 or 4 crisp passes to get the PK on its heals. THEN you shoot the puck. Shooting when you're not set up properly usually leads to an easy save and a dump out of zone.

I think all of hockey is overly cliched - for example, everyone says "we just need to simplify". What is simpler than the Jets dump and chase powerplay? Maybe we need add some COMPLEXITY in zone entry that may actually confuse the PK? Maybe we should set-up the powerplay from the half-boards instead of looking to feed the point ALL THE TIME like 90% of NHL teams do these days. The reason? Your most gifted players are usually your forwards, so let them handle the puck. You don't need to be Crosby to have the vision to make a cross-crease pass or to setup a one timer in the slot. Moderately good forwards can do it too ... but the powerplay needs to be set-up to do it. Jets NEVER play from the half boards ... we're in pure cycle mode even on the PP it seems
While I agree that the zone entry is junk, they spend a whole crap load of time trying to get a clean point shot. I agree that they need to switch is up, because that set up is just to easy to defend against.

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