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The Canucks are in a tailspin

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:59 AM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budddy View Post
they have won Presidents trophy in the past because they play in a weak division...point total was inflated...
The Hawks won one game in regulation against that division and that division ended their record run

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03-11-2013, 05:00 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Hyack57 View Post
Very frustrating as a fan and the mud flinging from opposing fans is warranted. This team has something wrong and distracting behind the scenes.
His name is Mike Gillis.

Sorry, Hyak. I quote you out of context to make a point. The bulk of Canuck issues are GM related. Gillis has failed to manage the team since about last January.

If you deconstruct the team's issues they are the result of inaction, for the most part.
Coaching, Goaltending, Defense, top six and bottom six have all gone untended for a long, long time.

Did Gillis address the flat playoff team that quit playing well in late January? You could blame that on coaching, but it would be a lot of work arguing with a new head coach until he agrees to accommodate the theories you hold. Much easier to re-sign the old coach, who is already indoctrinated.

Goaltending was handled strangely, too. Is Schnieder happy? Is Luongo? Is Vignault? The team? Anybody? Niether goalie has siezed the starts, is that a clue?

On defense, Salo and Rome were allowed to wander off. Expected fix Schultz chose EDMONTON over his hometown Canucks! Think about that. Gillis did sign Garrison, who wanted to come here. Garrison is no upgrade. Not even on Rome, much less Salo. The result is a defense in shambles and a coach left without usable pairings. It seems all Canuck Dmen shoot left, probably just an oversight.

The forward group is hopelessly composed and no amount of line juggling can hide it. Vignault hasm't been told about this win now thing and seems to bringing Kassian along slowly. He'll be ready in a couple of years. Also, the centerless second line approach isn't really paying off. This area puzzles me. Even little kids make up their rosters with enough centers. To actually arrive in camp with a sight-challenged guy, a weightlifting maverick and a little rookie seems like little support for the top line. Then they make it worse by sitting a guy. Explain that to me. Why wasn't he bought out? Why weren't extra centers brought in to camp? Why no FA additions? Why no replacements?

Despite all this BS the team is in playoff position. Gillis could still emerge triumphant. Kesler and Bieksa might come back and set the team on fire. A goalie could get hot. A waiver wire pickup could transform the defense. Okay, that last one is pie in the sky, but it might happen. Or, Gillis could become pro-active and fix some of these issues. If he adds a big crease clearing stay at home defenseman and a checking center at the deadline, they will have three weeks to integrate. If the team gels with them and becomes confident they could still do damage in the playoffs and redeem Gillis.

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Old
03-11-2013, 05:11 AM
  #228
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Not having a healthy Kesler is a huge hit. He's the key piece to the secondary scoring. He also brings a physical element and really strong defensive play. He makes Vancouver a harder team to play against.

Even with Kesler, the 2nd line doesnt look the deepest. With him gone its even more obvious.

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Old
03-11-2013, 06:39 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
LMFAO!!

Hamhuis-Edler are our 2 best d-men btw, not bieksa and edler. Hamhuis and Bieksa are pretty close to Suter and Brodin, if not better.

There is an enormous gap between the Canucks and Minnesota. IDC what you say about the standings, the Canucks are clearly the superior team.
Sorry to let you in on it, but those days are over. Today, they are very close in terms of talent. The Canucks had Cam Barker on defence the other night. The Wild have 4 dmen in the AHL that they could call up before putting Barker on the ice. The Wild have far better talent on defence than the Canucks. Granted, most casual fans do not know this, but facts are facts.

I also think it is close on offence. Maybe you can give the edge to the Canucks, but it is very close.

Prospects-wise, the Wild have one of, if not the best set of rookies/prospects in the whole league. The Canucks... not so much.

Ironic, that this debate is happening in a thread complaining about how bad the Canucks are and how Gillis has destroyed the team.


Last edited by Teppo: 03-11-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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Old
03-11-2013, 07:01 AM
  #230
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They're missing Booth and Kesler. Also maybe the players are tuning out the coach.

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03-11-2013, 07:23 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Oxenstierna View Post
Did the Nucks change their system or something? A few years ago they were a blast 2 watch, now seeing the Nucks is worse than seeing paint dry - just the same situation as Washington.
The GM traded away 2 developed prospects (M.Grabner C.Hodgson) and a 1st round pick for Kieth Ballard and Zack Kassian.

And people say we have coaching problems..

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03-11-2013, 10:43 AM
  #232
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Luongo is the reason. The guy flat out doesnt care if he wins or loses because his trade value is determiend by his contract. He knows its his call where he wants to go and otherwise he'll sit back and wait until he gets bought out (UNLIKELY BUT POSSIBLE) or traded. Schneider wants to be the starter and is sharing it again so he doesnt seem too happy.

Gillis screwed up by saying he had a team that would take Luongo once salary is cleared. Everyone called his bluff and nothing happened. At this point Florida isn't going to pay that much for Lu as they have Markstrom and will be rebuilding again this summer. Tampa (close city) wont take him because they payed for Lindback and probobally dont want to invest in goaltending again.

TML seem like the only team willing to give up anything at all for Luongo.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:47 AM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
They're missing Booth and Kesler. Also maybe the players are tuning out the coach.
Booth has played 9 games and has 2 assists and doesn't look very good.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:51 AM
  #234
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Canucks should have jumped on the Kadri+Bozak for Lou trade while they had the chance

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:51 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Maybe Canuck fans can educate me, because I only get to see the games when they play the Kings.

But from what I've seen, it looks like their offensive game is centered around board play and chances generated from the point... and whatever magic the Sedins conjure up.

Given the personnel you have, it seems to be the "right" system. Do you really think firing AV to bring in a different coach and system is going to make them more effective? Or is it more about AV's personality? Or is it more?

Because I can speak from the Kings' perspective; they were playing uninspired, passive hockey under Terry Murray up until his termination. Sutter didn't change the system a whole lot, he just changed the attitude and approach to the game more than anything.

So I guess the short version is: are you looking for a coach with a new system, or new message?

Edit: obviously this is more directed at people blaming AV. I'm not going to pretend to know the source of the Canucks' struggles.
I think the issue is that AV doesnt really run the Sedins' offense, he let's them do their own thing. It's our secondary guys that are failing to make up for the loss of Kesler and provide legitimate secondary scoring. Our biggest issue is defense right now, not just our defenseman, but our complete defensive system. Our gap control and coverage had been pretty bad, and we are allowing too many really good chances against.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:53 AM
  #236
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If they got rid of Burrows they would be more likable at least

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:56 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Maybe Canuck fans can educate me, because I only get to see the games when they play the Kings.

But from what I've seen, it looks like their offensive game is centered around board play and chances generated from the point... and whatever magic the Sedins conjure up.

Given the personnel you have, it seems to be the "right" system. Do you really think firing AV to bring in a different coach and system is going to make them more effective? Or is it more about AV's personality? Or is it more?

Because I can speak from the Kings' perspective; they were playing uninspired, passive hockey under Terry Murray up until his termination. Sutter didn't change the system a whole lot, he just changed the attitude and approach to the game more than anything.

So I guess the short version is: are you looking for a coach with a new system, or new message?

Edit: obviously this is more directed at people blaming AV. I'm not going to pretend to know the source of the Canucks' struggles.
If you feel like it, there's some good posts in our 'Fire AV' threads if you go through them. I'm too lazy to quote (sorry!).

But to quickly highlight the main issues (without really elaborating on them): breakouts, down low cycle, and personnel misuse. Oh yeah, our special teams suck. You could rah-rah this team all you want but they're not getting anywhere playing this type of hockey.

That's not to say AV is a bad coach, he's actually very good in a lot of ways, but he has his weaknesses and those are starting to pile up. You would expect some major adjustments since this team's system got picked apart by every team in the league. There haven't been many. We went from hitting guys in stride with our long pass, to juggling it around between the D and then having the high-man tip and charge. The team has no transition game right now.

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03-11-2013, 10:56 AM
  #238
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I'm quite surprised at the hostility towards AV. I'd take him as the coach of my team in a second.

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Old
03-11-2013, 10:59 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
If they got rid of Burrows they would be more likable at least
although that may be true, I think moving our third best player atm would not help our team

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:01 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyack57 View Post
This team has something wrong and distracting behind the scenes.
I have no idea what it might be.... cough... lou... cough...

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:02 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
If you feel like it, there's some good posts in our 'Fire AV' threads if you go through them. I'm too lazy to quote (sorry!).

But to quickly highlight the main issues (without really elaborating on them): breakouts, down low cycle, and personnel misuse. Oh yeah, our special teams suck. You could rah-rah this team all you want but they're not getting anywhere playing this type of hockey.

That's not to say AV is a bad coach, he's actually very good in a lot of ways, but he has his weaknesses and those are starting to pile up. You would expect some major adjustments since this team's system got picked apart by every team in the league. There haven't been many. We went from hitting guys in stride with our long pass, to juggling it around between the D and then having the high-man tip and charge. The team has no transition game right now.
I think this needs to be emphasized, we are on a run of like 24 straight PPs without a goal, and it's harder to win games without getting help the PP at all

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03-11-2013, 11:02 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Wrong 2 years ago.

Last year yes, but they were top 5 or so. Played horribly for half the year.
but 2 years ago, teams in their division finished 17,21,29, and 30th..not much different from last year..

This thread mentioned them winning the Prez trophy but I just think the division is fairly weak...never said they are not a good team and if there are stats out there that say their record isnt inflated because of that, then I would love to see them...

I think they have lost some depth and havent replaced it with similiar or better quality players (Hodgson as an example)...thats on Gillis..I also think their defense is somewhat overrated..but thats just an opinion from what I have seen...

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03-11-2013, 11:04 AM
  #243
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by Budddy View Post
This thread mentioned them winning the Prez trophy because the division is fairly weak...never said they are not a good team and if there are stats out there that say their record isnt inflated because of that, then I would love to see them...
They would've won the PT in 10-11 regardless of which division they were in. They dominated all of them. Even if they went below .500 in their own division, they would still have won it.

Not sure about 11-12.

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03-11-2013, 11:06 AM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budddy View Post
but 2 years ago, teams in their division finished 17,21,29, and 30th..not much different from last year..

This thread mentioned them winning the Prez trophy because the division is fairly weak...never said they are not a good team and if there are stats out there that say their record isnt inflated because of that, then I would love to see them...

I just think they have lost some depth and havent replaced it with similiar or better quality players (Hodgson as an example)...thats on Gillis..I also think their defense is somewhat overrated..but thats just an opinion from what I have seen...
I think what the poster was trying to say though, was that we had good records outside of the NW division and would of been among the best teams regardless of division. Our points are obviously inflated a little, but many exaggerate to what extent and try to imply that we were simply an average team that feasted on a poor division to get points.

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03-11-2013, 11:06 AM
  #245
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I'm quite surprised at the hostility towards AV. I'd take him as the coach of my team in a second.
Please do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrawlFan View Post
Luongo is the reason. The guy flat out doesnt care if he wins or loses because his trade value is determiend by his contract. He knows its his call where he wants to go and otherwise he'll sit back and wait until he gets bought out (UNLIKELY BUT POSSIBLE) or traded. Schneider wants to be the starter and is sharing it again so he doesnt seem too happy.

Gillis screwed up by saying he had a team that would take Luongo once salary is cleared. Everyone called his bluff and nothing happened. At this point Florida isn't going to pay that much for Lu as they have Markstrom and will be rebuilding again this summer. Tampa (close city) wont take him because they payed for Lindback and probobally dont want to invest in goaltending again.

TML seem like the only team willing to give up anything at all for Luongo.
Wrong. Mayor Wrong of Wrongville.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:06 AM
  #246
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Lindy Ruff to the rescue?

Won't matter unless they make some big trades too.

They might be better off tanking for a good draftpick. Cbj seems willing to do something this season.


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Old
03-11-2013, 11:07 AM
  #247
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I live in Van, I watch almost every game they have played. I'm also a Bruins fan and I loathe the Canucks so I think I can be a bit objective about them....

They look FLAT. That would figure since the emotional engine to that team is Ryan Kesler.

Their powerplay looks awful. They miss the puck moving of Erhoff and the shooter mentality of Kesler.

Their in-zone defensive play has had it's moments over the years but right now it is not good. They have guys playing their off-side and they are missing their best defenseman.

Some of the secondary scoring they need is not producing. David Booth is terrible.

Their goaltending was masking a lot of ills early. If they get decent goaltending they don't have the scoring to make up for it.

They need a deal and health.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #248
Budddy
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I think what the poster was trying to say though, was that we had good records outside of the NW division and would of been among the best teams regardless of division. Our points are obviously inflated a little, but many exaggerate to what extent and try to imply that we were simply an average team that feasted on a poor division to get points.
wasnt suggesting Nucks an average team; not at all...Certainly over the past couple of years have been top notch...

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03-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Lindy Ruff to the rescue?

Won't matter unless they make some big trades too.

They might be better off tanking for a good draftpick. Cbj seems willing to do something this season.


TOML
Hurt by injuries but perhaps the best before date has expired with AV. Lindy Ruff to the rescue.

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Old
03-11-2013, 11:18 AM
  #250
mix1home
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Originally Posted by BrawlFan View Post
TML seem like the only team willing to give up anything at all for Luongo.
I'm sorry, but TML at the moment wants Van to pay us for taking on Lou contract. There is speculation that Kadri-Bozak-2nd was never on the table as TML bras wanted to give the kid the fair opportunity to show his stuff (and Kadri uses it right now). Bozak-2nd might have been on the table and I'm of the opinion that Bozak would hold the fort on Van second line and PK in Kesler absence just fine.

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