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Worst team to ever win a Cup post expansion

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Old
04-02-2005, 09:55 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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Worst team to ever win a Cup post expansion

Which team that has won a Cup since '67 is the worst ever? This is how I look at it. We'll start in the beginning the first post expansion team the '68 Canadiens. To me the '68 and '69 Habs were very good they had a lot of Hall of Famers. H. Richard, Beliveau, Savard, Vachon (should be in Hall), Lemaire, Cournoyer were all on those teams. Next. The Bruins of '70 and '72, nope both were very, very good. No team with Bobby Orr is bad. The Habs of '71 and '73 were also good as well as the '74 '75 Flyers. Then theres the Habs of '76-79 best of all time IMO.

Now we have the Isles '80-83. Nope too good. Then the '84 and '85 Oilers followed by the '87 and '88 Oilers. Yeah right! The Flames of '89 had 117 points that year. The '90 Oilers were still very good. The '91 and '92 Pens may not have had the points totals but when they had all of their best players for the whole season they won. The '94 Rangers were pretty good as well, not great but good enough. Now we have the Avs of '96 or '01 both were offensive dynamos. The '97 '98 and '02 Red Wings were all very good teams. As was the '99 Stars, and the '00 Devils. The '03 Devils weren't great but put up enough regular season points. As did the '04 Lightning and they just make the long list.

That leaves the '93 Habs, the '95 Devils and the '86 Habs. These teams all won the Cup. First off the '93 Canadiens werent a bad team. Maybe not the best but they had 102 points. The Kings may not have been the best team to meet in the finals but the Habs did beat the Nordiques who had 103 points. Plus Patrick Roy in his prime, anda cast of good players, this team is better than the other two.

So compare the '95 Devils to the '86 habs. IMO the two worst teams. The Devils had 52 points which in a full season is 87. Same as the Habs. You had a young Brodeur vs. a young Roy. Roy wins. The best d-man on the Devils was Stevens and for Montreal it was Robinson. Robinson wins, since he won the Norris that year. Also up front the Habs had Gainey (although past his prime), Naslund, Richer, Skrudland, Smith. The Devils had Richer, Broten, Guerin and co. You'd have to give the Habs the edge. The Devils did beat the Red Wings in the final but that was more because of the new suffocating trap other than talent. The Habs only beat the Flames which had 89 points. But to me I still will say with everything in mind the '95 Devils were the worst team in post expansion history to win the Cup.

Any thoughts?

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04-02-2005, 10:01 PM
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I thikn you're right with the Devils.

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04-02-2005, 10:04 PM
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Not to mention the devils didnt even make the playoffs the next year

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04-02-2005, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
So compare the '95 Devils to the '86 habs. IMO the two worst teams. The Devils had 52 points which in a full season is 87. Same as the Habs. You had a young Brodeur vs. a young Roy. Roy wins. The best d-man on the Devils was Stevens and for Montreal it was Robinson. Robinson wins, since he won the Norris that year. Also up front the Habs had Gainey (although past his prime), Naslund, Richer, Skrudland, Smith. The Devils had Richer, Broten, Guerin and co. You'd have to give the Habs the edge. The Devils did beat the Red Wings in the final but that was more because of the new suffocating trap other than talent. The Habs only beat the Flames which had 89 points. But to me I still will say with everything in mind the '95 Devils were the worst team in post expansion history to win the Cup.

Any thoughts?

Brodeur in his 2nd year was better than Roy as a rookie.

Stevens in 1995 was better than Robinson in 1986. Robinson did not win the Norris that year, his last Norris came in 1980.

IMO the Devils team in 1995 was better than the 86 Habs. The 95 Devils like a number of teams wasn't ready to go when the lockout ended, but the previous year they took the Cup Champs to double-OT of game 7 and finished 2nd in goals for and 2ns in gaa .. and #1 in goal differential.

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Old
04-02-2005, 10:25 PM
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The 1986 Habs were the worst since 1967 to win the Stanley Cup......they had no business winning it except that Roy won that Cup all by himself.

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04-02-2005, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensfan86
Not to mention the devils didnt even make the playoffs the next year
Hey! They started the season very slowly but down the stretch they were a terror, had the BEST record over the last 20 or 30 games I recall. They just missed the playoffs and many NHLers publicly expressed a big "whew!"

I think the '86 Habs too,

or the '01 Avs. Yes, that team had Bourque and a ton of other great players, but AS A TEAM, they played poorly for several games. It was clearly inferior to the Colorado team which won in '96

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04-02-2005, 10:44 PM
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As a candidate I should add the post-Gretzky era in Edmonton: the 1989-90 Oilers got phenomenal performances from Bill Ranford and Esa Tikkanen (22 pts) but everyone admitted the team was way below the Oilers of the eighties in terms of dominance.

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04-02-2005, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Hey! They started the season very slowly but down the stretch they were a terror, had the BEST record over the last 20 or 30 games I recall. They just missed the playoffs and many NHLers publicly expressed a big "whew!"

I think the '86 Habs too,

or the '01 Avs. Yes, that team had Bourque and a ton of other great players, but AS A TEAM, they played poorly for several games. It was clearly inferior to the Colorado team which won in '96
Yeah they won the presidents trophy.

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04-03-2005, 12:06 AM
  #9
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Ok here are the teams who won the cup after 1967 (post expension) and the number of points they had that year as well as their ranking in the league. Example: Detroit has 109 points which is league high... then Detroit is ranked first. LOL I know everyone understands P.S. I didnt put the seasons but its in order starting from 1967-68.

Montreal: 1st with 94 points
Montreal: 1st with 103 points
Boston: tied for 1st with 99 points
Montreal: 4th with 97 points
Boston: First with 119 points
Montreal: First with 120 points
Philly: Second with 112 points
Philly: Tied for first with 113 points
MTL: First with 127 points
MTL: First with 132 points
MTL: First with 129 points
MTL: Second with 115 points
NYI: 5th with 91 points
NYI: First with 110 points
NYI: First with 118 points
NYI: 4th with 96 points
Edm: first with 119 points
Edm: second with 109 points
MTL: 7TH win 87 points
Edm: First with 106 points
Edm: third with 99 points
Calgary: 1st with 117 points
Edm: 5th with 99 points
Pittsburgh: 6th with 88 points
Pittsburgh: tied for 5th with 87 points
Mtl: 6th with 102 points
NYR: 1st with 112 points
NJ: Tied for 9th with 52 points
Colorado: 3rd with 104 points
Detroit: 5th with 94 points
Detroit: 3rd with 103 points
Dallas: First with 114 points
NJ: 4th with 103 points
Colorado: 1st with 118 points
Detroit: 1st with 116 points
NJ: 4th with 108 points
Tampa Bay: 2nd with 106 points

So out of all the winning teams, only 4 teams werent in the top 5 in the standings.

Pittsburgh 1990-91 : 6th with 88 points
Mtl 1993 : 6th with 102 points
NJ 1995: Tied for 9th with 52 points
MTL 1986: 7th win 87 points

I would think that any team with Mario is far from the worse team so it all comes down to Montreal in 1986 and 1993 as well as New Jersey 1995. I would say:

1- New Jersey 1995
2- Montreal 1986
3- Montreal 1993


All the other teams deserved to win because they were either the best or in the top 5 pointswise in the league.

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04-03-2005, 12:07 AM
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habs blow

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04-03-2005, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
habs blow
I dont see any leaf teams on the list...

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04-03-2005, 12:27 AM
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*zing!*

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04-03-2005, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensfan86
Not to mention the devils didnt even make the playoffs the next year
They were too busy trying to get Jacques Lemaire fired to let a few hockey games get in the way.

*Edit in bold


Last edited by MacDaddy TLC*: 04-03-2005 at 09:41 AM.
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04-03-2005, 09:37 AM
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They were too busy getting Jacques Lemaire fired to let a few hockey games get in the way.
Lemaire wasn't gone until after the 1998 season.

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04-03-2005, 12:49 PM
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The Toronto Maple Leafs......oh wait a min

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04-03-2005, 01:03 PM
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Leafs may not had won a cup but i bet they made the highest profit of all those teams over last 35 yrs

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04-03-2005, 01:20 PM
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94-95 Devils. That stupid lockout screwed everything up.

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04-03-2005, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
Leafs may not had won a cup but i bet they made the highest profit of all those teams over last 35 yrs
Haha, that's hilarious, I'm glad you care so much about what the management and shareholders are earning, must fill you with pride for your team

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04-03-2005, 01:35 PM
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the toronto who. thats all they will make because that bunch of slackers will never win another cup again. at least i can say i remember seeing my hab team win many cups all you leaf fans can only read about it since most of you weren't born when they won there last cup. as your grand dad would say when i was a kid i remember in 67 ---hehe

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04-03-2005, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
Leafs may not had won a cup but i bet they made the highest profit of all those teams over last 35 yrs
Great, and that profit has brought them what? Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Belfour, Roberts.

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04-03-2005, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
Leafs may not had won a cup but i bet they made the highest profit of all those teams over last 35 yrs

I'm surprised they don't have a "most profitable team" parade down Yonge St. every year. They could have fans carrying aluminium foil dollar sign trophies chanting "We're number one!"

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04-03-2005, 04:23 PM
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They got all that profit from such great business decisions like the time the NHL mandated they put names on the back of the jerseys, so they wnet blue letters on blue and white on white, all to sell more programs

 
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04-03-2005, 11:21 PM
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The 1986 Stanley Cup edition of the Canadiens can't be graded just on their point total (87) alone. Why? Mainly because the regular season scheduling format isn't being taken into consideration.

Twenty years ago, a team would play their divisional rivals eight times. As you can see, Montreal finished second in the old Adams Division.

Quebec ..... 92 points
Montreal .... 87
Boston ...... 86
Hartford .... 84
Buffalo ...... 80

That division was the most competitive from top to bottom. Despite a respectable 80 point year. Buffalo didn't qualify for the playoffs (top four from each division). This means 32 of Montreal's 80 games were within this tough group. In my eyes, that's a well earned 87 points.

Imagine what the Habs could have had if they were in the Norris Division? Where Toronto had 57 points (made the playoffs) and Detroit was holding up the rear at 40 points. Then you have powerful Edmonton with an impressive 119 points. How really impressive was it? Three out of the five teams (Smythe Division) were under .500. Remember, a club played divisional opponents eight times.

I'll be honest, the 1986 Canadiens were not a powerhouse by any means. When you dissect their roster. You'll discover many of those players were vital to Montreal's return to the finals, only three years later, in 1989 (Roy, C. Lemieux, Richer, Chelios, Skrudland, Svoboda, McPhee). Along with the veterans (Robinson, Gainey, Green, Ludwig).

Larry Robinson was a Second Team All-Star selection. Mats Naslund finished eighth in league scoring with 110 points. Guy Carbonneau was runner-up to the Selke Trophy. Even Kjell Dahlin ended up in third place for Calder Trophy voting. Six players scored between 20-43 goals. Another four had 19 goal seasons. They won't ever be compared to other Canadiens' great squads that won the Stanley Cup. But, this group from 1986 is better than what some give them credit for. Comments?

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04-05-2005, 12:02 PM
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95 Devils.

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04-05-2005, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chet-Nick
The 1986 Stanley Cup edition of the Canadiens can't be graded just on their point total (87) alone. Why? Mainly because the regular season scheduling format isn't being taken into consideration.

Twenty years ago, a team would play their divisional rivals eight times. As you can see, Montreal finished second in the old Adams Division.

Quebec ..... 92 points
Montreal .... 87
Boston ...... 86
Hartford .... 84
Buffalo ...... 80

That division was the most competitive from top to bottom. Despite a respectable 80 point year. Buffalo didn't qualify for the playoffs (top four from each division). This means 32 of Montreal's 80 games were within this tough group. In my eyes, that's a well earned 87 points.

Imagine what the Habs could have had if they were in the Norris Division? Where Toronto had 57 points (made the playoffs) and Detroit was holding up the rear at 40 points. Then you have powerful Edmonton with an impressive 119 points. How really impressive was it? Three out of the five teams (Smythe Division) were under .500. Remember, a club played divisional opponents eight times.

I'll be honest, the 1986 Canadiens were not a powerhouse by any means. When you dissect their roster. You'll discover many of those players were vital to Montreal's return to the finals, only three years later, in 1989 (Roy, C. Lemieux, Richer, Chelios, Skrudland, Svoboda, McPhee). Along with the veterans (Robinson, Gainey, Green, Ludwig).

Larry Robinson was a Second Team All-Star selection. Mats Naslund finished eighth in league scoring with 110 points. Guy Carbonneau was runner-up to the Selke Trophy. Even Kjell Dahlin ended up in third place for Calder Trophy voting. Six players scored between 20-43 goals. Another four had 19 goal seasons. They won't ever be compared to other Canadiens' great squads that won the Stanley Cup. But, this group from 1986 is better than what some give them credit for. Comments?
Please, it was all about Patrick Roy.

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