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Interview Dave Feschuk talks about his last article in the Star. Burke wants credit

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04-22-2013, 08:45 PM
  #376
Krazy
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I'm so glad the usual suspects are here.
One Phil kessel is a one dimensional forward who will wont score 30 without savard...... Whoops

Seguin will out score kessel and he will be the franchise number one centre the leafs needed for years. Whoops

Burke destroyed the leafs by picking up gerber and now the leafs are stuck with kadri who will just. Ummmm nope not that one

Burke is screwing the leafs by not tanking. Edmonton is the model we should be following bahahahahahahaha

I can't believe Burke picked up lupul. He is such a waste of cap space. He can't contribute it's and won't mesh with kessel. Yikes

Phanuef is over rated and a cancer. I can't believe Toronto took him. Ian white was the best player in that deal. Nope so maybe

I can't believe Burke is putting his faith in Reimer he needs a real starter. Hahahah

Burke is destroying the leafs by refusing to do long term back diving deals. We shoes broke the bank for Richards. Nope

Burke said he would make the playoffs in five years. He didn't. Wait well I guess if I change math then I can argue Burke sucks.

Finally. Well his ego is sad. Ridiculous. How the mighty have fallen

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04-22-2013, 08:46 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
It's also one you've created in your own mind. 2 teams spent 16 M less than the cap. There isn't a team in the league this year whose cap total was more than $12 M off the max cap of Burke's era and all but one year all are $7M and under, so saying they can't spend that money is no more than a figment of your imagination. At $64 M next year, only two teams cap from this year is greater than $10 M.

Your Montreal argument is equally bunk. Their roster is largely the same as last year. All of 5 different players brought in from outside, mostly bottom feeders. The thing that was changed that made the difference in Montreal is a big part of what made the difference in Toronto and it should be obvious to an Observer.
Burke has the ability to spend to the ceiling. MANY teams don't.
The fact that Burke chose not to is moot.

And Montreal not changing their players too much is testament that if you're trying to avoid a 5 year rebuild and just "retool" your terrible team, if you're one of the richest teams in the league IT'S NOT TOO DIFFICULT.
Unless you're the leafs or Brian Burke of course...

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04-22-2013, 08:47 PM
  #378
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BB is a DB. A big DB.

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04-22-2013, 08:48 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Burke has the ability to spend to the ceiling. MANY teams don't.
The fact that Burke chose not to is moot.

And Montreal not changing their players too much is testament that if you're trying to avoid a 5 year rebuild and just "retool" your terrible team, if you're one of the richest teams in the league IT'S NOT TOO DIFFICULT.
Unless you're the leafs or Brian Burke of course...
This makes no sense. Last year was an outlier for Montreal in the standings. keep ignoring facts tho.

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04-22-2013, 08:48 PM
  #380
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I'm so glad the usual suspects are here.
One Phil kessel is a one dimensional forward who will wont score 30 without savard...... Whoops

Seguin will out score kessel and he will be the franchise number one centre the leafs needed for years. Whoops

Burke destroyed the leafs by picking up gerber and now the leafs are stuck with kadri who will just. Ummmm nope not that one

Burke is screwing the leafs by not tanking. Edmonton is the model we should be following bahahahahahahaha

I can't believe Burke picked up lupul. He is such a waste of cap space. He can't contribute it's and won't mesh with kessel. Yikes

Phanuef is over rated and a cancer. I can't believe Toronto took him. Ian white was the best player in that deal. Nope so maybe

I can't believe Burke is putting his faith in Reimer he needs a real starter. Hahahah

Burke is destroying the leafs by refusing to do long term back diving deals. We shoes broke the bank for Richards. Nope

Burke said he would make the playoffs in five years. He didn't. Wait well I guess if I change math then I can argue Burke sucks.

Finally. Well his ego is sad. Ridiculous. How the mighty have fallen


The goalposts keep moving.

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04-22-2013, 08:52 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Burke has the ability to spend to the ceiling. MANY teams don't.
The fact that Burke chose not to is moot.

And Montreal not changing their players too much is testament that if you're trying to avoid a 5 year rebuild and just "retool" your terrible team, if you're one of the richest teams in the league IT'S NOT TOO DIFFICULT.
Unless you're the leafs or Brian Burke of course...
Montreal wasn't a bad team, it pained me as a leafs fan but not counting last year they were better. They made the playoffs and did pretty well. This isn't a one year rebuild, they wernt broken.

They still have issues and I wouldn't call them contenders but the last 4 years they were a hell of a lot better than us even if we factor in their bad season last year.

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Old
04-22-2013, 08:55 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
If I addressed every one of your arguments point by point, it would take 28 pages and 5 hours.

I think one of our fundamental disagreements is that I think Burke's financial advantage is much more substantial than you do.
I think having rich ownership that allows him to spend $10-16 million more on players than a substantial amount of the competition is a HUGE advantage.
You downplay that advantage simply because you "like" Burke, and feel the need to make excuses for him.

I compare the highest paid GM with the most financial advantages to the best of the best GM's, and say "he did a poor job".
People like you compare the highest paid GM with the most financial advantages to the worst of the worst GM's and say "Well, he did better than them... he's great".
I think that that is frighteningly low expectations.
Always comparing to pathetically poor teams like the Islanders and Panthers.
Let's compare a rebuild to another rich team big boy.

Last season, Montreal finished 3rd last in the nhl. The leaf team Burke inherited had just finished 7th last.
Montreal's forwards lacked elite talent (best player last year had like 65 points.)
The leafs best forwards lacked elite talent (forward on the leaf team Burke inherited had around 65 points.)
Montreals prospects last season were ranked lower than the prospects Burke inherited (according to both HF and the Hockey News)
Montreal had even WORSE albatross contracts to deal with (uh... Gomez?) than what Burke had to deal with.

Yet their GM turned the team around in 1 season.
ONE ****ING SEASON!!!!
If it ended up taking 5 nhl seasons (minus 2 months), Montreal fans like YOU would have said "Well, based on the team Bergevin inherited, taking 5 years was a GREAT JOB!!!! He had albatross contracts to deal with, pathetic prospects, and no elite 1st line talent!!!!" (Sound familiar?)

But it only took one year.

It's performances like THAT that I compare the highest paid GM in the league with the most financial advantages.

I'm sure you'll make a whole bunch of lame excuses as to why it was easier for Bergevin than for Burke...
but such arguments are a slippery slope.
At what point are you just saying "We can't compare burke to any other GM's because the teams were in different situations".
At what point is THAT argument just saying "I think Burke did a good job, regardless of any comparisons/facts that you bring up"?
I have to disagree with some points.

Obviously, money advantage helps bury personnel mistakes. But we have to be clear Burke was GM, he wasn't pro-scout or even amateur scout. He was GM, he had hockey people who evaluated players for trades, so the blame for bad signings has to be shouldered not just by Burke but by the full time hockey people.

I don't think Burke did a bad job, I think he did an okay job. That IMO is the key. He wasn't hired to be average or just as good as Garth Snow. He was hired to be the best, and was given an unlimited budget off the ice to accomplish his goals. Compare what he could spend off ice to what teams like Phoenix, Florida, Long Island ... can spend.

Burke deserves credit, no denying that. Same way that Howson and Gauthier do.

The team is in the playoffs, that was expected this year whether Burke was fired or not. They don't have to write apologies for failing in 2013.

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04-22-2013, 09:01 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Burke said he would make the playoffs in five years. He didn't. Wait well I guess if I change math then I can argue Burke sucks.
Quote:
During Wednesday's end-of-season address, the Leafs general manager reiterated that he's not keen on waiting long for the 29th-place team to become a contender. In fact, he expects it to happen next year.

"I'm not interested ... in a five-year rebuild like some of these teams have done," said Burke. "Maybe because of my age, maybe just because I know it doesn't have to be five years because it wasn't in Anaheim.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...xt-season.html

Outside of Burke most people thought it would take 5 years or longer.

No big deal, just wanted his words here.

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04-22-2013, 09:02 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I have to disagree with some points.

Obviously, money advantage helps bury personnel mistakes. But we have to be clear Burke was GM, he wasn't pro-scout or even amateur scout. He was GM, he had hockey people who evaluated players for trades, so the blame for bad signings has to be shouldered not just by Burke but by the full time hockey people.

I don't think Burke did a bad job, I think he did an okay job. That IMO is the key. He wasn't hired to be average or just as good as Garth Snow. He was hired to be the best, and was given an unlimited budget off the ice to accomplish his goals. Compare what he could spend off ice to what teams like Phoenix, Florida, Long Island ... can spend.

Burke deserves credit, no denying that. Same way that Howson and Gauthier do.

The team is in the playoffs, that was expected this year whether Burke was fired or not. They don't have to write apologies for failing in 2013.
Average? 3 years 10 months, as of now.

Three PPG players Kessel Lupul Kadri
1st pairing Dman Phaneuf
Top 10 scoring Dman Franson
Top blue chip Dman Gardiner
Top blue chip prospect Reilly

and then Ashton, Colborne, Percy, Biggs, Finn.

And then some more. Hell of a pull if you ask me. That's not average, that's elite.


Last edited by TeamBester: 04-22-2013 at 09:09 PM.
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Old
04-22-2013, 09:03 PM
  #385
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The results are in the pudding DO, that's why people supported Burke. 3 years 10 months and into a 5th place playoff team. One of the youngest to boot. Too bad you spent all that time complaining about nothing,
5th. place team?

That would be Montreal.

Leafs are 8th.

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04-22-2013, 09:07 PM
  #386
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5th. place team?

That would be Montreal.

Leafs are 8th.
No they are in 5th in the conference, that's all that matters.

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04-22-2013, 09:08 PM
  #387
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Average? 3 years 10 months, as of now.

Three PPG players Kessel Lupul Kadri
1st pairing Dman Phaneuf
Top 10 scoring Dman Franson
Top blue chip Dman Gardiner
Top blue chip prospect Reilly

and then Ashton, Colborne, Percy, Biggs, Finn.

And then some more. Hell of a pull if you ask me.
November 29th., 2008 was when he was introduced.

Where are you getting 3 years 10 months from?

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04-22-2013, 09:12 PM
  #388
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No they are in 5th in the conference, that's all that matters.
So are the Capitals 3rd.?

Are the BJ's the 8th. best team?

This is not baseball with American and National leagues, there is only 1 league here.


Last edited by ULF_55: 04-23-2013 at 07:25 AM.
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04-22-2013, 09:13 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
November 29th., 2008 was when he was introduced.

Where are you getting 3 years 10 months from?
They think if they repeat it enough people will start to believe it .

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04-22-2013, 09:13 PM
  #390
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November 29th., 2008 was when he was introduced.

Where are you getting 3 years 10 months from?
Lockout. All hockey operations ceased.

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04-22-2013, 09:17 PM
  #391
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So are the Capitals 3rd.?

Are the BJ's the 8th. best team?

This is baseball with American and National leagues, there is only 1 league here.
No, probably the 2nd best team.

MLB is one league, sorry.

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04-22-2013, 09:21 PM
  #392
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and then Ashton, Colborne, Percy, Biggs, Finn.

And then some more. Hell of a pull if you ask me. That's not average, that's elite.
What's so elite about these prospects ?

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04-22-2013, 09:23 PM
  #393
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What's so elite about these prospects ?
That's only half the quote. You left out the stars and highlighted the complimentary players.

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04-22-2013, 09:25 PM
  #394
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Burke said he would make the playoffs in five years. He didn't. Wait well I guess if I change math then I can argue Burke sucks.
Burke didn't say he would make the playoffs in 5 years , he said he could build a cup contender in under 5 years .

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04-22-2013, 09:25 PM
  #395
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That's only half the quote. You left out the stars and highlighted the complimentary players.
Half? That was just the little extra.

Hilarious really.

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04-22-2013, 09:26 PM
  #396
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Burke didn't say he would make the playoffs in 5 years , he said he could build a cup contender in under 5 years .
He never said that, stop making crap up.

I'd love to see a quote where Burke said "I could build a contender in under 5 years"

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04-22-2013, 09:28 PM
  #397
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Average? 3 years 10 months, as of now.

Three PPG players Kessel Lupul Kadri
1st pairing Dman Phaneuf
Top 10 scoring Dman Franson
Top blue chip Dman Gardiner
Top blue chip prospect Reilly

and then Ashton, Colborne, Percy, Biggs, Finn.

And then some more. Hell of a pull if you ask me. That's not average, that's elite.
Saying that the leafs made the playoffs 3 years and 10 months after Burke arrived is lying.
Please refrain from resorting to such tactics.

Burke was in the position to draft 7th, 2nd, 9th, and 5th overall... while inheriting recent 5th and 13th overall picks.

You're really surprised that he could get some elite assets out of that?
Has there ever been a GM in league history that couldn't get some good players in 4 nhl seasons when given assets of 7th, 2nd, 9th, and 5th overall picks... and 2 young players drafte 5th and 13th overall?

Unacceptably low expectations.

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04-22-2013, 09:31 PM
  #398
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Oh and I forgot JVR. Elite job, just incredible.

3 years 10 months is how long Burke had to run hockey operations in Toronto.

Elite.

And one of the youngest to boot. Amazing.

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04-22-2013, 09:32 PM
  #399
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Lockout. All hockey operations ceased.
So Montreal's new GM made burke look even more foolish by being able to turn their team around in substantially less than one year then?
Wow.
Thanks for helping me prove my point.
Awfully kind of you.

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04-22-2013, 09:36 PM
  #400
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So are the Capitals 3rd.?

Are the BJ's the 8th. best team?

This is baseball with American and National leagues, there is only 1 league here.
Correct. We didn't have any games with teams on the Western conference. It'd be pointless referring to a league-wide standings.

By Eastern conference standing, we're fifth, while in wins, we're in fourth place. Moreover, we're just 2 wins behind Boston and Montreal, with Pittsburgh's 34 wins being an extreme. In other words, we're performing with the best despite utilizing a new system and vastly different roster.

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