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Interview Dave Feschuk talks about his last article in the Star. Burke wants credit

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Old
04-23-2013, 03:32 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
How do you expect a proper rebuild of that magnitude in less then 5 years? Especially with zero assets and only so much cap money to spend? Maybe pre-lock out it was possible, but not today.
Let me guess...

You're going to say that Burke inherited low rated prospects. Burke inherited a terrible team with few elite talent. Burke inherited a team with albatross contracts.

Well...
last year Montreal had LOWER rated prospects. Montreal's best players were JUST as bad. Montreal had WORSE Albatross contracts (gomez).

And they made the playoffs the next freaking year. The next freaking year.
It just shows that endless long term rebuilds is a thing that POOR teams go through.
With VERY rare exceptions, only poor teams have those long drawn out rebuilds. Other than the leafs of course.
(There are other exceptions rather than rules of rich teams with TERRIBLE gm's that took a long time to rebuild. Let's please not compare Burke to terrible worst of the worst gm's in order to try and make him seem better. That would be a very silly way to argue).

So if the leafs are going to do a RIDICULOUS 7 years out of the playoffs, they better be a future ELITE best of the best team.
Just don't see it with them.

I'm glad we're in the playoffs and all...
but Burke really ****ed this up.

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04-23-2013, 03:33 AM
  #477
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I would have said Burke was failure if his team wouldn't have got into playoffs this season or next. Owners thought otherwise. Burke was on the helm of this franchise 3 full seasons. This would have been 4th and next season 5th.

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04-23-2013, 03:35 AM
  #478
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Well said.

I'd ask him "if you're good with 5 years, what number of years would you not be good with?"
but there's no point.
Nobody answers that question.
They just spin around it in an endless loop.

I don't blame them.
Answering that question would take them admitting just how low their expecations are/were. I think even they are embarrassed to show just how low their expectations are.
I'm good with 5. I would have been better with 4. 6 does not work. So, 5, the 5 year rebuild, his 5 year contract. It's just a nice number.

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04-23-2013, 03:36 AM
  #479
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It humours me how people are still harping on this, from both sides.

For a team that just made the playoffs the negativity is off the charts. Burke deserves the lion's share of the credit for this team turning the corner. I think most would find it hard to discredit that statement, try as they may.
I agree completely ! I dont even have to read about what was said in the interview. Burke deserves all the credit in the world. Nonis has done nothing but add O'Bryne for a fourth rounder..which is fine; however Burke did not only assemble the big club but he put together an awesome farm team as well. The big leafs that just clinched for a playoff berth has Burkes fingerprints in every facet. Starting with the coaching staff..all the bench bosses were Burke hires, then go through the lineup

JVR Kessel Bozak Lupul Grabo Mac Nazem McClement Phaneuf Fraser Franson Gardiner Liles Kostka Scrivens Reimer....all the players I listed are works of Burke more than 3/4's of the team was all Burke. You can give Randy I boat load of credit but again he was a Burke hire...Burkes biggest mistake was Ron Wilson other than that he put together a playoff team. As well I think people forget about why Burke got let go. The sole reason of his sudden dismissal was because a Bell BIG WIG didnt like him in the board room cause he swore, as well as how Burke was frank and sarcastic with the media so guess what bye bye Burke thanks for the team...infact when he was fired I was pissed ! are you kidding the guy was only just beginning the comeback of a dynasty and you fire him?

Nonis better make sure he doesnt swear, and ya know....ive seen him since Burke's firing and he still looks upset, never smiling. Anyway Burke setup Nonis extremely well. Forget this year......what about this offseason?

Pittsburgh being the best example of a team in serious cap trouble, but there are going to be quite a few others that will need to off-load salary and some will have little choice about who has to go. Anaheim and Minny are two others. Burke set us up to vulture and scoop of talent that normally probably wouldnt be availble for a lower price tag.

Eg Iginla Morrow Malkin Crosby Neal Letang Murphy Fleury==doesnt take a scientist to figure out that Pittsburgh will be far beyond over the cap ! iggy will go back to calgary and retire there...other than that the only guaranteed mainstay is Crosby and Malkin...even Malkin who knows maybe he goes; or we trade Kule to Pittsburgh and get Neal? Morrow?

Enough with my ranting and I apologize for the longwinded post. I just cant stand people that are Burke haters...he made the team that has us in the post season top to bottom and actually he hired Nonis as well...literally its the team Burke built from the front office coaches players both farm and NHL level.

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04-23-2013, 03:38 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Let me guess...

You're going to say that Burke inherited low rated prospects. Burke inherited a terrible team with few elite talent. Burke inherited a team with albatross contracts.

Well...
last year Montreal had LOWER rated prospects. Montreal's best players were JUST as bad. Montreal had WORSE Albatross contracts (gomez).

And they made the playoffs the next freaking year. The next freaking year.
It just shows that endless long term rebuilds is a thing that POOR teams go through.
With VERY rare exceptions, only poor teams have those long drawn out rebuilds. Other than the leafs of course.
(There are other exceptions rather than rules of rich teams with TERRIBLE gm's that took a long time to rebuild. Let's please not compare Burke to terrible worst of the worst gm's in order to try and make him seem better. That would be a very silly way to argue).

So if the leafs are going to do a RIDICULOUS 7 years out of the playoffs, they better be a future ELITE best of the best team.
Just don't see it with them.

I'm glad we're in the playoffs and all...
but Burke really ****ed this up.
You just compared the Habs team of last year who had PK Subban (arguably a #1 defenseman), Carey Price (a #1 goalie), and a bunch of other 2nd line players to the team Burke inherited?

What exactly did the Habs change from last year? They got drafted 2 players, and signed a tough guy. I highly doubt this much of a change resulted in them making the playoffs.

And to compare it to Edmonton's rebuild is silly because they aren't in the playoffs and yet they have more holes in their line-up then we do, even with their elite talent, they don't have a defenseman better then Dion Phaneuf, not even in their system, and they don't really have a goalie better then James Reimer.

Burke traded scrubs for a Norris candidate this year. He built a farm team, and we have competition all through our line-ups all the way down to the ECHL. Not every team in the league can say this. Not only that but we beat Edmonton to the playoffs and may have well developed a better 1st line centre then their #1 picks.

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04-23-2013, 03:39 AM
  #481
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I would have said Burke was failure if his team wouldn't have got into playoffs this season or next. Owners thought otherwise. Burke was on the helm of this franchise 3 full seasons. This would have been 4th and next season 5th.
Burke had 4 t/d , 4 drafts and 4 ufa periods and over 4 full years to build this team and if it wasn't for Nonis dumping his garbage and a golie that was drafted by JFJ this team still wouldn't be in the playoffs so stop trying to decrease the amount of time he had to work with .

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04-23-2013, 03:43 AM
  #482
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Burke had 4 t/d , 4 drafts and 4 ufa periods and over 4 full years to build this team and if it wasn't for Nonis dumping his garbage and a golie that was drafted by JFJ this team still wouldn't be in the playoffs so stop trying to decrease the amount of time he had to work with .
Yeah and 3 full seasons. This was cut short and first season team was set all ready. Nonis dumped his garbage because he was Burkes employee and they set a goal which players they wanted and Nonis negotiated. I'm glad we still have Nonis as a GM.

You sure know he build this team in 4 years?

One NHL GM said it takes 7 years to rebuild organisation. Burke made it in 4 and he said he don't think that it has to be 5 year rebuild. Contradicting?

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04-23-2013, 03:50 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Edmonton (doing a proper rebuild) will be ELITE down the road.
Especially because they will be able to retain ALL of their elite talent, pay them accordingly, AND fix the gaping hole that they are calling a defense corps. These years of sucking and basement finishes will definitely attract free agents for cheap.

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04-23-2013, 04:02 AM
  #484
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Yeah and 3 full seasons. This was cut short and first season team was set all ready. Nonis dumped his garbage because he was Burkes employee and they set a goal which players they wanted and Nonis negotiated. I'm glad we still have Nonis as a GM.

You sure know he build this team in 4 years?

One NHL GM said it takes 7 years to rebuild organisation. Burke made it in 4 and he said he don't think that it has to be 5 year rebuild. Contradicting?
Wtf does it matter if he was only here for 3 full seasons . Going by your time frame Kadri as well as that entire draft don't belong to Burke because he wasn't here for the full season .

Burke said he could build a cup contending team under 5 years . He didn't say it would take him 5 years to build a playoff team .

What satisfaction could you possibly get by lying and spinning the facts ?

He was here for

4 drafts
4 t/d
4 ufa seasons
and almost 4 full season and over 4 years

None of us have any idea what Burke would have done with the TC-Komi-Steckel-Brown so stop making up crap to defend Burke .

What we do know is Burke had a horrible time time sending Orr to the minors and went on an hour long rant to defend the move so to say he would have dumped 9 mil more of his own signings is a huge stretch in reality .

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04-23-2013, 04:11 AM
  #485
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Especially because they will be able to retain ALL of their elite talent, pay them accordingly, AND fix the gaping hole that they are calling a defense corps. These years of sucking and basement finishes will definitely attract free agents for cheap.
If Pitt can spend 8 plus mil on Sid and Malkin and also pay big money to Neal-Martin-Fleury as well as paying decent money to Letang-Kunitz-Orpik then Edm won't have any problem signing there elite talent since none of them will get close to what Sid/Malkin make .

The problem isn't paying your stars it's overpaying your depth players .

But maybe you're saying the best way to build a team is to acquire mediocre players that way you'll never have cap issues .

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04-23-2013, 04:17 AM
  #486
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Wtf does it matter if he was only here for 3 full seasons . Going by your time frame Kadri as well as that entire draft don't belong to Burke because he wasn't here for the full season .

Burke said he could build a cup contending team under 5 years . He didn't say it would take him 5 years to build a playoff team .

What satisfaction could you possibly get by lying and spinning the facts ?

He was here for

4 drafts
4 t/d
4 ufa seasons
and almost 4 full season and over 4 years

None of us have any idea what Burke would have done with the TC-Komi-Steckel-Brown so stop making up crap to defend Burke .

What we do know is Burke had a horrible time time sending Orr to the minors and went on an hour long rant to defend the move so to say he would have dumped 9 mil more of his own signings is a huge stretch in reality .
First your say: "None of us have any idea what Burke would have done..." and then you go: "What we do know is Burke had a horrible time... he would have dumped 9 mil more of his own signings is a huge stretch in reality." Which way you want to go? You have no idea, but still you have an idea?

This would have been his 4th FULL season, I though he should sneak into playoffs in 4 or 5 season. So there fore I see this as success, that way. Off course that Kadri draft belongs to Burke, but you can't change team mid-season. It's goes where it goes, you can make some adjustments and tweaks.

You rant about those elite players, but you sure know that even 1st overall isn't always sure thing franchise player and building block. Or when you need C there might be only RW or dman available. Burke had four drafts and even with tanking he could have acquired four good assets. He acquired two in Kadri and Rielly. Acquired Kessel trough trade and got huge value back. Your right we need upgrade on C and top2 dman, but there is lot of organisations that have same kind of needs. I rather trust Burke type of GM to trade for that kind of asset than Tambellini kind of GM to tank for that. Burke is great trader and we would have needed him for that in near future. We have assets now. Burke is stubborn hot head and found his way out. Still this rebuild isn't any kind of failure, even if you compare it to Edmonton. Pens got lucky with their drafts and Chicago got Toews after Pens picked inferior player in Staal.

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04-23-2013, 06:20 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Let me guess...

You're going to say that Burke inherited low rated prospects. Burke inherited a terrible team with few elite talent. Burke inherited a team with albatross contracts.

Well...
last year Montreal had LOWER rated prospects. Montreal's best players were JUST as bad. Montreal had WORSE Albatross contracts (gomez).

And they made the playoffs the next freaking year. The next freaking year.
It just shows that endless long term rebuilds is a thing that POOR teams go through.
With VERY rare exceptions, only poor teams have those long drawn out rebuilds. Other than the leafs of course.
(There are other exceptions rather than rules of rich teams with TERRIBLE gm's that took a long time to rebuild. Let's please not compare Burke to terrible worst of the worst gm's in order to try and make him seem better. That would be a very silly way to argue).

So if the leafs are going to do a RIDICULOUS 7 years out of the playoffs, they better be a future ELITE best of the best team.
Just don't see it with them.

I'm glad we're in the playoffs and all...
but Burke really ****ed this up.
Sounds like somebody is supporting what we told him all along about the value of THN prospect rankings.

You should spend less time fixating on what so and so says and more on making your own value judgements.

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04-23-2013, 06:25 AM
  #488
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The problem is I don't think there was a number you wouldn't be good with .
I'd say the problem is the very fact you guys are fixated on a number instead of the "results" you all claimed were so important. The results are that after less than 4 years of being able to make moves, he's revamped the entire organization, resulting in consecutive AHL division titles and an NHL team pacing for one of the best totals in an almost 100 year franchise history, who are also fighting for their division title, not to mention 5 players vying for top 5 - 10 totals at their respective positions plus two others who are very high up the ladder.

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04-23-2013, 06:27 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
First off, the Marlies team that Burke inherited had a MUCH better season than the current Marlies team.

2nd... My point is... if you consider 5 nhl seasons (minus 2 months) to be "successful" for the highest paid nhl gm in the league with the most financial advantages, than what would you consider "average" for the highest paid nhl gm in the league with the most financial advantages?
Too bad they did it off of almost entirely vets whereas if you look at last years run, it was almost entirely youth driven.

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04-23-2013, 06:38 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Burke has the ability to spend to the ceiling. MANY teams don't.
The fact that Burke chose not to is moot.

And Montreal not changing their players too much is testament that if you're trying to avoid a 5 year rebuild and just "retool" your terrible team, if you're one of the richest teams in the league IT'S NOT TOO DIFFICULT.
Unless you're the leafs or Brian Burke of course...
Nothing in this argument has anything to do with "being able to spend to the cap". You can easily look up how much each individual team has spent in cap space. These are facts. You can then easily look up what the cap was during Burke's tenure. These are facts. I assumed that Burke was spending to the cap (even though he wasn't). Even with that assumption in place, knowing what the cap limit was during Burke's tenure and knowing what teams have spent in cap space, one quickly comes to the conclusion that contrary to the strawman you are trying to create, at no point in time did Burke have "a $10 - 16 M financial advantage over a significant portion of the league". It's just one of your usual arguments that you desperately cling to that are easily debunked with 2 minutes of effort.

You'd do yourself a lot of favours by simply stating you hate Burke for no rationale reason. This insistance on creating stances that hold absolutely no merit against even the weakest litmus test just come across as ridiculous.

I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make about Montreal? One guy completely remodeled a franchise at two levels, the other touched very little. The most important thing he changed is the one thing you aren't discussing.

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04-23-2013, 06:44 AM
  #491
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Obviously, everyone knows how long Burke was in charge, however the team itself didn't just become an expansion team when Burke arrived contrary to what many supporting Burke's record seem to suggest.

I guess when you cannot see that he isn't responsible for everything it is difficult to see beyond that bias.
If one knows that then perhaps they should remove it from the argument when discussing his work? His work begins with what he inherited, not with what other GMs had.

If you'd care to discuss what his fingerprints are NOT on, by all means. Fill your boots. It will be a very short conversation given almost everyone is either traded for or signed by him.

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04-23-2013, 07:01 AM
  #492
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04-23-2013, 07:28 AM
  #493
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How could people honestly say that the Oilers are closer to being Cup contenders?

They have ZERO depth, they have young players who have no idea what it takes to win, a rookie coach, a rookie GM, a terrible management, and no leadership.

Do people remember the "Big 4" in the AHL? They put up points but couldn't even help their AHL team win let alone NHL.

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04-23-2013, 07:48 AM
  #494
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How could people honestly say that the Oilers are closer to being Cup contenders?

They have ZERO depth, they have young players who have no idea what it takes to win, a rookie coach, a rookie GM, a terrible management, and no leadership.

Do people remember the "Big 4" in the AHL? They put up points but couldn't even help their AHL team win let alone NHL.
Don't bother. They are doing their rebuild the proper way. It's serious tanking, though they failed this season, since there is franchise potential dman available and now their out of contention for bottom finish.

People bashing Burke tend to forget, that things could be much worst than this. Burke destroyed his reputation in Toronto with that Kessel trade. Even if we win it, that's not good enough for certain people. Coin is still up in the air, we got hell of a player in Kessel. Seguin/Hamilton are potential youngsters. We should have tanked in their minds. You can't change that. It isn't about results, it's about the way they wanted to do this rebuild.

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04-23-2013, 08:20 AM
  #495
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It humours me how people are still harping on this, from both sides.

For a team that just made the playoffs the negativity is off the charts. Burke deserves the lion's share of the credit for this team turning the corner. I think most would find it hard to discredit that statement, try as they may.
There's a select few that were proven wrong about Burke, Kessel, pretty much everything and for whatever reason keep needing to re-hash the same non-existent arguement.

Some just prefer to wallow in negativity, while the rest can enjoy the long awaited success. If anything, it is entertaining.

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04-23-2013, 08:55 AM
  #496
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Their rebuild was more reactive than proactive. Three of four of their young assets are scoring wingers. One is potential franchise center that was rushed in the league and is suffering for it. Edmonton rebuild is one of the worst in the league, almost Columbus esque. Eberle was brought in properly and he played himself a big contract. Hall came in first season and is cashing in after ELC. They will pay their young core north to 15million after their ELCs(almost 20mil with Yakupov). Not a great way to build contender. They have no defense and not that great goaltending prospects. They have young ELITE assets, which are paid market value.
How much are the Leafs paying Lupul, Kessel and Grabovski? $15 million

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04-23-2013, 09:06 AM
  #497
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You just compared the Habs team of last year who had PK Subban (arguably a #1 defenseman), Carey Price (a #1 goalie), and a bunch of other 2nd line players to the team Burke inherited?

What exactly did the Habs change from last year? They got drafted 2 players, and signed a tough guy. I highly doubt this much of a change resulted in them making the playoffs.

And to compare it to Edmonton's rebuild is silly because they aren't in the playoffs and yet they have more holes in their line-up then we do, even with their elite talent, they don't have a defenseman better then Dion Phaneuf, not even in their system, and they don't really have a goalie better then James Reimer.

Burke traded scrubs for a Norris candidate this year. He built a farm team, and we have competition all through our line-ups all the way down to the ECHL. Not every team in the league can say this. Not only that but we beat Edmonton to the playoffs and may have well developed a better 1st line centre then their #1 picks.
Oilers problem is their veterans, who just are showing no leadership.

7 of the Oilers top scorers are 23 or younger. The old guy in that group is 1 month older than Lupul.

Leafs are in the playoffs, but not based on 23 and younger players.

Anyway, let's hope Reimer can shine in the playoffs. JFj deserves credit there.

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04-23-2013, 09:43 AM
  #498
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Don't bother. They are doing their rebuild the proper way. It's serious tanking, though they failed this season, since there is franchise potential dman available and now their out of contention for bottom finish.

People bashing Burke tend to forget, that things could be much worst than this. Burke destroyed his reputation in Toronto with that Kessel trade. Even if we win it, that's not good enough for certain people. Coin is still up in the air, we got hell of a player in Kessel. Seguin/Hamilton are potential youngsters. We should have tanked in their minds. You can't change that. It isn't about results, it's about the way they wanted to do this rebuild.
I am glad we didn't tank. We just can't possibly suck as bad as the Oilers.

Even in our most terrible seasons, we have a great month where we would take ourselves out of the 1st overall pick contention.

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04-23-2013, 10:21 AM
  #499
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How could people honestly say that the Oilers are closer to being Cup contenders?

They have ZERO depth, they have young players who have no idea what it takes to win, a rookie coach, a rookie GM, a terrible management, and no leadership.

Do people remember the "Big 4" in the AHL? They put up points but couldn't even help their AHL team win let alone NHL.
Because they haven't been picking the low hanging fruit.

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04-23-2013, 10:31 AM
  #500
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It makes me sad that some people can't see te light but that's ok. We'll be signing Burkes praises for years with the moves he made. Maybe one day we'll all realize this but until then carry on my wayword friends

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