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Old
03-30-2013, 05:52 PM
  #1
puck stoppa
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Use Burmi Or Trade Him

The Jets need to either use Burmi where he belongs, top 9, or trade him and watch him flourish elsewhere. When they shorten the bench, Burmi gets no shifts in the third, when he should be playing ahead of Tangradi, Wellwood and Mittens.
I know that he is centering the fourth line cause Slater is hurt at the moment, and its been well documented that he doesn't play Noel's system.

The only problem I have with Noel, is that he has a short leash with young guys but a long one with vets. I know vets deserve this to some respect. But having said all that, LLW have done FA the last three games, they sucked today but Noel couldn't change up the lines, why, cause we have no depth, but yet Burmi is riding the pine. LLW should have sat after their debacle of a performance today but we have to double shift them cause we have no one else. They are our best line but when they suck, we lose, and it just so happened that Kane sucked today too.

Play Burmi, give him opportunity and let him thrive. If you sit him Noel, then just know that there are some games where your top guys show no heart and have brutal turnovers at the blue lines, the reasons why you sit Burmi. Be consistent and sit them too or let Burmi be creative and create some offense that we desperately need! Let the kid *** play cause we need him now!

Can you tell I am one of his few advocates, as I was for Kane and Pavs last year.

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03-30-2013, 05:54 PM
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I'm sure he'll get more top9 time when any or all of our 4th line return (Wright, Slater and Peluso). Right now Burmistrov is being used as utility as he's getting double shifted sometimes in Miettinen's spot and sometimes Kane is getting double shifted in Cormier's spot.

His trade value isn't very good so don't trade.

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03-30-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
The Jets need to either use Burmi where he belongs, top 9, or trade him and watch him flourish elsewhere. When they shorten the bench, Burmi gets no shifts in the third, when he should be playing ahead of Tangradi, Wellwood and Mittens.
I know that he is centering the fourth line cause Slater is hurt at the moment, and its been well documented that he doesn't play Noel's system.

The only problem I have with Noel, is that he has a short leash with young guys but a long one with vets. I know vets deserve this to some respect. But having said all that, LLW have done FA the last three games, they sucked today but Noel couldn't change up the lines, why, cause we have no depth, but yet Burmi is riding the pine. LLW should have sat after their debacle of a performance today but we have to double shift them cause we have no one else. They are our best line but when they suck, we lose, and it just so happened that Kane sucked today too.

Play Burmi, give him opportunity and let him thrive. If you sit him Noel, then just know that there are some games where your top guys show no heart and have brutal turnovers at the blue lines, the reasons why you sit Burmi. Be consistent and sit them too or let Burmi be creative and create some offense that we desperately need! Let the kid *** play cause we need him now!

Can you tell I am one of his few advocates, as I was for Kane and Pavs last year.
Sure he hasn't shown any offensive ability but your right he should still be ahead of 5-6 forwards on the currents Jets roster.

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03-30-2013, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
The Jets need to either use Burmi where he belongs, top 9, or trade him and watch him flourish elsewhere. When they shorten the bench, Burmi gets no shifts in the third, when he should be playing ahead of Tangradi, Wellwood and Mittens.
I know that he is centering the fourth line cause Slater is hurt at the moment, and its been well documented that he doesn't play Noel's system.

The only problem I have with Noel, is that he has a short leash with young guys but a long one with vets. I know vets deserve this to some respect. But having said all that, LLW have done FA the last three games, they sucked today but Noel couldn't change up the lines, why, cause we have no depth, but yet Burmi is riding the pine. LLW should have sat after their debacle of a performance today but we have to double shift them cause we have no one else. They are our best line but when they suck, we lose, and it just so happened that Kane sucked today too.

Play Burmi, give him opportunity and let him thrive. If you sit him Noel, then just know that there are some games where your top guys show no heart and have brutal turnovers at the blue lines, the reasons why you sit Burmi. Be consistent and sit them too or let Burmi be creative and create some offense that we desperately need! Let the kid *** play cause we need him now!

Can you tell I am one of his few advocates, as I was for Kane and Pavs last year.

not true

many people, including myself know that he has amazing talent, and is just being misused
he still has amazing potential, find him a line, and it shouldnt surprise anyone when he starts lighting up the league
(look at the kadri situation)


Last edited by Jet: 03-31-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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03-30-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Sure he hasn't shown any offensive ability but your right he should still be ahead of 5-6 forwards on the currents Jets roster.
Just curious, who are the 5-6 forwards that have shown more offensive ability than Burmistrov?

Ladd, Kane, Wheeler, Little, ???

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03-30-2013, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Just curious, who are the 5-6 forwards that have shown more offensive ability than Burmistrov?

Ladd, Kane, Wheeler, Little, ???
Antropov so far has just due to a load of setups. Burmsitrov has been scoring more goals though per min.

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03-30-2013, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
The Jets need to either use Burmi where he belongs, top 9, or trade him and watch him flourish elsewhere. When they shorten the bench, Burmi gets no shifts in the third, when he should be playing ahead of Tangradi, Wellwood and Mittens.
I know that he is centering the fourth line cause Slater is hurt at the moment, and its been well documented that he doesn't play Noel's system.

The only problem I have with Noel, is that he has a short leash with young guys but a long one with vets. I know vets deserve this to some respect. But having said all that, LLW have done FA the last three games, they sucked today but Noel couldn't change up the lines, why, cause we have no depth, but yet Burmi is riding the pine. LLW should have sat after their debacle of a performance today but we have to double shift them cause we have no one else. They are our best line but when they suck, we lose, and it just so happened that Kane sucked today too.

Play Burmi, give him opportunity and let him thrive. If you sit him Noel, then just know that there are some games where your top guys show no heart and have brutal turnovers at the blue lines, the reasons why you sit Burmi. Be consistent and sit them too or let Burmi be creative and create some offense that we desperately need! Let the kid *** play cause we need him now!

Can you tell I am one of his few advocates, as I was for Kane and Pavs last year.
Burmi has tons of BFF's on this board...just look at all the guys using his avatar or having his number in their name. Because of that you get a polarizing effect and thus he has vocal detractors as well, of which I am one.

Kane played well today. Close to 'great'. The difference between 'great' and 'well' is what shows on the scoreboard. Effort was there, pretty nice play outside of the one unnecessary penalty.

LLW unfortunately were soft in their own end today. They created some dangerous chances (most notably Little on the break) but it wasn't enough to make up for the defensive lapses during their shifts.

Still, I usually side with the veterans, except in exceptional cases like Kane. LLW are three guys who have earned their stripes in the trenches and deserve their ice-time. Everyone clamors for the young 1st rounders to get more ice-time. LLW were early 1st rounders too, and are in the peak of their careers. In a race to make the playoffs, you stick with the guys that got you there, even if they have a bad game or two.

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03-30-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Burmi has tons of BFF's on this board...just look at all the guys using his avatar or having his number in their name. Because of that you get a polarizing effect and thus he has vocal detractors as well, of which I am one.

Kane played well today. Close to 'great'. The difference between 'great' and 'well' is what shows on the scoreboard. Effort was there, pretty nice play outside of the one unnecessary penalty.

LLW unfortunately were soft in their own end today. They created some dangerous chances (most notably Little on the break) but it wasn't enough to make up for the defensive lapses during their shifts.

Still, I usually side with the veterans, except in exceptional cases like Kane. LLW are three guys who have earned their stripes in the trenches and deserve their ice-time. Everyone clamors for the young 1st rounders to get more ice-time. LLW were early 1st rounders too, and are in the peak of their careers. In a race to make the playoffs, you stick with the guys that got you there, even if they have a bad game or two.
I get that. But sitting Burmi for the same reasons is not being consistent as a coach. Burmi should have been pulled off the fourth line today and put in place of any one player that struggles, no matter who that player is. Many coaches in this league sit top 6 guys if they need to, it sends a message, cause if your leaders arent' performing the other guys will follow. Im not saying put them on a line with Thorbs, sit them for a few shifts, maybe then some guys won't be so complacent. I hope you get what Im saying, some guys turn pucks over on the blue lines (worst place to do it) which leads to goals and they are out next shift.

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03-30-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Antropov so far has just due to a load of setups. Burmsitrov has been scoring more goals though per min.
Wouldn't Miettenen be ahead of him as well. 2 goals vs 3 goals in less than half the ice-time.

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03-30-2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I get that. But sitting Burmi for the same reasons is not being consistent as a coach. Burmi should have been pulled off the fourth line today and put in place of any one player that struggles, no matter who that player is. Many coaches in this league sit top 6 guys if they need to, it sends a message, cause if your leaders arent' performing the other guys will follow. Im not saying put them on a line with Thorbs, sit them for a few shifts, maybe then some guys won't be so complacent. I hope you get what Im saying, some guys turn pucks over on the blue lines (worst place to do it) which leads to goals and they are out next shift.
He was on for 12:26 today. Which was more time than Antropov (10:39) or Wellwood (9:31) and far more than Thor, Tangradi, or Cormier all of were around 5 or less. Now I'd have to see how of that was PK time but I don't think 12:26 was particularly bad without looking at a breakdown.

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03-30-2013, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Wouldn't Miettenen be ahead of him as well. 2 goals vs 3 goals in less than half the ice-time.
oh god, im trying to eat dinner here
miettinen (IMO) doesnt have a spot on this team

goals dont make you good, the best hickey players in the league are not always point/goal leaders

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03-30-2013, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Wouldn't Miettenen be ahead of him as well. 2 goals vs 3 goals in less than half the ice-time.
Miettinen has more goals but I was comparing the goals two players that have similar point productions (Antropov and Burmistrov)....

Miettinen is about twice the distance from Antropov as Burmistrov is... besides the goal off of Miettinen's ass shouldn't count for him in this case haha

Antropov
G/60 0.25
A1/60 0.75
P/60 1.38

Burmistrov:
G/60 0.43
A1/60 0.43
P/60 1.16

Miettinen
G/60 0.64
A1/60 0.00
P/60 0.97

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03-30-2013, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
He was on for 12:26 today. Which was more time than Antropov (10:39) or Wellwood (9:31) and far more than Thor, Tangradi, or Cormier all of were around 5 or less. Now I'd have to see how of that was PK time but I don't think 12:26 was particularly bad without looking at a breakdown.
Burmistrov's TOI Breakdown:

SH TOI 4:44
EV TOI 7:20
PP TOI 0.22

So a third of his TOI was on the PK.

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03-30-2013, 06:25 PM
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I will continue to be Miettinen's sole defender here. Not because I have any love for him. Because someone has to defend him, by god.

Burmi-Mittens comparisons will continue until one or both of these guys is gone. The team is not big enough for both of them...

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03-30-2013, 06:32 PM
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Mittens, Antropov, and Wellwood are all better than Burmi. Burmi is a puck hog through and through. He looks to move through 3 defenders instead of passing. He belongs in his role and nothing more until he proves he'll do something with a higher one.

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03-30-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I get that. But sitting Burmi for the same reasons is not being consistent as a coach. Burmi should have been pulled off the fourth line today and put in place of any one player that struggles, no matter who that player is. Many coaches in this league sit top 6 guys if they need to, it sends a message, cause if your leaders arent' performing the other guys will follow. Im not saying put them on a line with Thorbs, sit them for a few shifts, maybe then some guys won't be so complacent. I hope you get what Im saying, some guys turn pucks over on the blue lines (worst place to do it) which leads to goals and they are out next shift.
I am not one of Noel's biggest fans when it comes to his treatment of younger players why Postma/Kulda sit in favor of Meech is beyond me. But I can't understand why you are slagging our 4 best forwards to make a point with regards to Burmistrov's ice time. As others have alluded to all 4 have been impact players more often then not this year and have earned the benefit of the doubt with regards to a bad game or two. None of the four should be compared to Burmistrov in any way shape or form as they have produced and played as or above expected this year. The same probably can't be said about him.

Had you compared him to guys like Wellwood, Oli, Mittins aka the vets that are under performing I would back you up. He should be playing ahead of Wellwood for-sure. Not sure why Noel is so insistent of him earning his way back to the third line when he has been better than both Tangradi and Wellwood this year.

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03-30-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DominikPavelec View Post
Mittens, Antropov, and Wellwood are all better than Burmi. Burmi is a puck hog through and through. He looks to move through 3 defenders instead of passing. He belongs in his role and nothing more until he proves he'll do something with a higher one.
Results-wise this is untrue...

Yes he sometimes tries to do that but so does Wheeler and Kane. They do it because they are trying to force something to happen.

There is a reason why every single Jet on the team (when looking over this season and last) not named Slater and Wright outshoot and outchance their opponents with Burmistrov on the ice than without.

If Burmistrov's errors were as often as people like to make it seem than this wouldn't be the case.

To me it's a simple as this. Burmistrov and Antropov have out-performed Jokinen and Miettinen, both offensively and defensively. They deserve to be on the second line more so than those two, ALTHOUGH they have not performed as legit 2nd liners.... which is the big problem in the end if this team wants to get over the hump.

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03-30-2013, 06:42 PM
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I am not one of Noel's biggest fans when it comes to his treatment of younger players why Postma/Kulda sit in favor of Meech is beyond me. But I can't understand why you are slagging our 4 best forwards to make a point with regards to Burmistrov's ice time. As others have alluded to all 4 have been impact players more often then not this year and have earned the benefit of the doubt with regards to a bad game or two. None of the four should be compared to Burmistrov in any way shape or form as they have produced and played as or above expected this year. The same probably can't be said about him.

Had you compared him to guys like Wellwood, Oli, Mittins aka the vets that are under performing I would back you up. He should be playing ahead of Wellwood for-sure. Not sure why Noel is so insistent of him earning his way back to the third line when he has been better than both Tangradi and Wellwood this year.
see below

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03-30-2013, 06:45 PM
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I am not one of Noel's biggest fans when it comes to his treatment of younger players why Postma/Kulda sit in favor of Meech is beyond me. But I can't understand why you are slagging our 4 best forwards to make a point with regards to Burmistrov's ice time. As others have alluded to all 4 have been impact players more often then not this year and have earned the benefit of the doubt with regards to a bad game or two. None of the four should be compared to Burmistrov in any way shape or form as they have produced and played as or above expected this year. The same probably can't be said about him.

Had you compared him to guys like Wellwood, Oli, Mittins aka the vets that are under performing I would back you up. He should be playing ahead of Wellwood for-sure. Not sure why Noel is so insistent of him earning his way back to the third line when he has been better than both Tangradi and Wellwood this year.
You make a good point. For me it's a combination that I feel he's not getting enough ice (as Kane didn't last year) and the fact that Ladd's turnovers on the blue lines really burn me. Ladd is one of our best players, don't get me wrong on that, but Im sure the coach preaches no turnovers on the blues. Ladd turns it over there more then my high school hockey players, Im not saying sit him for game, but if Noel ever benched a vet for a few shifts for consistent poor plays he may send a message to the rest of the guys. Vets earn their dues, and when they get benched they won't like it, but the rest of the team might respond (see Carlyle with JVR).

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03-30-2013, 07:06 PM
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Results-wise this is untrue...

Yes he sometimes tries to do that but so does Wheeler and Kane. They do it because they are trying to force something to happen.

There is a reason why every single Jet on the team (when looking over this season and last) not named Slater and Wright outshoot and outchance their opponents with Burmistrov on the ice than without.

If Burmistrov's errors were as often as people like to make it seem than this wouldn't be the case.

To me it's a simple as this. Burmistrov and Antropov have out-performed Jokinen and Miettinen, both offensively and defensively. They deserve to be on the second line more so than those two, ALTHOUGH they have not performed as legit 2nd liners.... which is the big problem in the end if this team wants to get over the hump.

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03-30-2013, 07:28 PM
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I'm a big Burmi guy, but I don't think he deserves more playing time.
Everyone on the team is committed to playing one way (dump the puck in, play a gritty game) and he STILL isn't on the same page. Burmi needs to buy into what the team is doing. Maybe he's just trying too hard to make something happen, but he's gotta start playing the same game as his teammates.

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03-30-2013, 07:37 PM
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Forget about Burmi, why is Kane still on the #2 PP? By the time Kane touches the ice, clearly our best finisher, there's about 30 seconds left in a PP. Ladd and Wheeler are great players, but Kane should take one of their spots on the #1 PP IMO.

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03-30-2013, 07:49 PM
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Maybe he would get more ice time if actually did what the coach tells him to do.

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03-30-2013, 07:53 PM
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Maybe he would get more ice time if actually did what the coach tells him to do.
I get that, but that reason is getting old, Ive watched every game and he has not done anything extreme in the negative fashion. I think this is getting overstated, and if Slater was healthy, Burmi would move up, cause he has not done anything wrong lately.
Its weird cause Kane turned a few pucks over today and if this was last year he would have been benched. I don't know if someone talked to Noel about giving Kane more leash, and putting him on the PK, but he has more trust in him this year and is giving him way more ice. Maybe this will happen to Burmi next year.

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03-30-2013, 07:58 PM
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I get that, but that reason is getting old, Ive watched every game and he has not done anything extreme in the negative fashion. I think this is getting overstated, and if Slater was healthy, Burmi would move up, cause he has not done anything wrong lately..
What's getting old his him not operating within the parameters of the team game.
Why would Noel essentially promote him when his style of game goes against what the team is trying to accomplish.
Every game I'm impressed with Burmi's ability but it just never leads to anything. He's beyond skilled but presently he doesn't translate it to anything tangible.
The most frustrating this is that he can succeed by doing what Noel wants of him. With Burmi's speed and relative physicality he'd be great at the chip and chase game if he wanted to be.
Burmi DOES belong on Kane's line. The two of them could be very dynamic. But that all depends on if Burmi buys in or not.

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Its weird cause Kane turned a few pucks over today and if this was last year he would have been benched. I don't know if someone talked to Noel about giving Kane more leash, and putting him on the PK, but he has more trust in him this year and is giving him way more ice. Maybe this will happen to Burmi next year.
Kane gets more leash because he's earned it. No one told Noel to ignore the mistakes Kane makes, but the positives he brings FAR out way the negatives. The same can't be said of Burmi.
Also I thought Kane was great today, as usual.

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