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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XII)

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #226
Holden Caulfield
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I think it all depends on the market near the deadline and Hainsey's willingness to re-sign. You might want to be prepared to be shocked.

Again, it depends on the market. What if we could turn Hainsey (if he outright tells Chevy he will test the market) and a 3rd for a 1st? You don't do that?

I'm coming across like I'm dead-set on dealing Hainsey which is certainly not the case. I'm just saying that I don't think Chevy has closed that door like you guys seem to be implying.
No. That first will be a late first, maybe 25-35% chance of becoming a real player in 4-5 years. We need that playoff experience NOW. This team cannot keep finishing in the black hole of 9th to 12th in the conference, simply cannot keep happening.

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03-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
I think it all depends on the market near the deadline and Hainsey's willingness to re-sign. You might want to be prepared to be shocked.



Again, it depends on the market. What if we could turn Hainsey (if he outright tells Chevy he will test the market) and a 3rd for a 1st? You don't do that?

I'm coming across like I'm dead-set on dealing Hainsey which is certainly not the case. I'm just saying that I don't think Chevy has closed that door like you guys seem to be implying.
I don't like dealing NHL proven people for purely picks, especially when they're such an integral part of the working cog. Hainsey is really important as a shut down D and veteran presence on the blue line. It would also depend on who we got the picks from. Boston? Chicago? Anaheim? No way.

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03-16-2013, 05:10 PM
  #228
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I could see it happening.
I could see for picks... for prospects... for a different roster player...
BUT, I could also see it not happening.
And, I think the the second case is more likely... but never say never

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03-16-2013, 05:10 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
No. That first will be a late first, maybe 25-35% chance of becoming a real player in 4-5 years. We need that playoff experience NOW. This team cannot keep finishing in the black hole of 9th to 12th in the conference, simply cannot keep happening.
Agreed. I've said it already, but being a perennial bubble team is not an effective way to build your team. I don't advocate tanking, but the best way to finish the season is either in the playoffs or in the bottom 6 in terms of what's available. Enough of this 7-12 bull****.

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03-16-2013, 05:17 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
No. That first will be a late first, maybe 25-35% chance of becoming a real player in 4-5 years. We need that playoff experience NOW. This team cannot keep finishing in the black hole of 9th to 12th in the conference, simply cannot keep happening.
Or you package that first and our first (and maybe some of our seconds) to move up and get a better blue-chip prospect to add to the pool. It's not cut and dried that we draft a player and wait 4 years.

I think Chevy needs to be creative and find ways to add top-end talent to this roster. This off-season will be massive for this franchise (lots of draft picks and cap going down) and I want him to be armed to make that happen.

I suppose it comes down to this. You think we need to make the playoffs to propel us to the next level. I think this roster can be effectively improved this off-season and, while I'd love to make the playoffs this year, I'm willing to wait one more season.

I'd also like to re-iterate that I think Chevy might be a buyer and a seller at the deadline. Sell players on the way out and buy a player with some term left if you can find a team that is going to run into cap issues this summer.

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03-16-2013, 05:20 PM
  #231
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Dealing Hainsey is silly...hes really the only effective stay at home defensman that we have...and the biggest knock that the people on this forum have against him is that he doesn't hit. While that would be nice, hitting is also the most overrated stat on HF. Its like people think that hiiting automatically means better defense...when in actuality, the two are not exclusive.

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03-16-2013, 05:20 PM
  #232
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You guys have to get over the "such and such a draft pick has X% chance to be a Y line player in Z years".

It's much more complicated than that.

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03-16-2013, 05:22 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
You guys have to get over the "such and such a draft pick has X% chance to be a Y line player in Z years".

It's much more complicated than that.
Understandable...but you do not want to sacrifice success in the playoffs for possible success in the future.

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03-16-2013, 05:24 PM
  #234
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Alright, it looks like I'm on my own here so I surrender.

Keep 'em all and make a push. Hopefully we don't miss the playoffs.

Edit: To give some context/background, I had the displeasure of being a Columbus fan and watching them make their big push to make the playoffs and then lose 4 straight games to Detroit. Not a fun experience, let me tell you. You're left wondering WTF just happened.

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03-16-2013, 05:24 PM
  #235
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Or you package that first and our first (and maybe some of our seconds) to move up and get a better blue-chip prospect to add to the pool. It's not cut and dried that we draft a player and wait 4 years.

I think Chevy needs to be creative and find ways to add top-end talent to this roster. This off-season will be massive for this franchise (lots of draft picks and cap going down) and I want him to be armed to make that happen.

I suppose it comes down to this. You think we need to make the playoffs to propel us to the next level. I think this roster can be effectively improved this off-season and, while I'd love to make the playoffs this year, I'm willing to wait one more season.

I'd also like to re-iterate that I think Chevy might be a buyer and a seller at the deadline. Sell players on the way out and buy a player with some term left if you can find a team that is going to run into cap issues this summer.
And trading up in the draft has proven be a very risky proposition AT BEST. It's a very mixed bag on results, despite the fact that team might have a better "name" via the trade up.

You and others seem to have this idea that we can suddenly go from playoff less team to Stanley Cup contender in one season, or that we can reload the prospect system in the one draft. This whole thing is a process and you cannot do things in one off-season.

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03-16-2013, 05:28 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
You guys have to get over the "such and such a draft pick has X% chance to be a Y line player in Z years".

It's much more complicated than that.
That may be true, but when contemplating any move you need to weigh all of the ramifications.

- what benefit the player you're moving might have for your team should he stay?

- what is the potential of the asset(s) that you are recieving?

When you are talking draft picks, the ONLY thing you have to go on is such and such a draft pick has X% chance to be a Y player in Z years. If you aren't doing that, then how do you value a draft pick?

Trading away one of your statistically best defensemen before the playoffs to get draft picks back is a terrible mistake when it comes to organizational advancement. You'd never see Detroit do that and they are one of the best asset management teams around. They never offload good vets for picks. They make the most of the picks they have.

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03-16-2013, 05:30 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
And trading up in the draft has proven be a very risky proposition AT BEST. It's a very mixed bag on results, despite the fact that team might have a better "name" via the trade up.

You and others seem to have this idea that we can suddenly go from playoff less team to Stanley Cup contender in one season, or that we can reload the prospect system in the one draft. This whole thing is a process and you cannot do things in one off-season.
That's a little unfair but whatever. I certainly never said we'd be a Stanley Cup contender next year. I did say that this is a huge off-season for us and I stand by that.

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03-16-2013, 05:37 PM
  #238
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I'll end on this note. I will certainly not lose a second of sleep if the Jets keep all their expiring contracts. I just think Chevy needs to be flexible, keep and open mind, and know the market going into the deadline. That is all.

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03-16-2013, 05:39 PM
  #239
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That's a little unfair but whatever. I certainly never said we'd be a Stanley Cup contender next year. I did say that this is a huge off-season for us and I stand by that.
I didn't think you had. But I really think you are forgetting the baby steps that are needed to progress the team. Teams need to learn how to play in playoffs before they can be contenders. I wasn't suggesting you thought we could do it next year, but some people seem to think drafting #1 or be a legit SC contender is the only place we should be. We need to take some baby steps into playoffs, sometimes that means holding onto a Hainsey. At worst it then costs us 2nd + 3rd or late 1st we might have gained from it, not a big deal, IMO.

Quote:
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Alright, it looks like I'm on my own here so I surrender.

Keep 'em all and make a push. Hopefully we don't miss the playoffs.

Edit: To give some context/background, I had the displeasure of being a Columbus fan and watching them make their big push to make the playoffs and then lose 4 straight games to Detroit. Not a fun experience, let me tell you. You're left wondering WTF just happened.
Fair enough. And that does suck, but in reality that should have been a learning experience for a young Blue Jackets team that started them towards larger successes...but for whatever reason they couldn't figure out the game and regressed. And what should have been a key first step turned into a another sign of mediocrity. Too bad, but not a model I am at all concerned about. I don't see us following that model, but if we do a late 1st rounder is not going to make the difference, IMO.

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03-16-2013, 05:43 PM
  #240
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I didn't think you had. But I really think you are forgetting the baby steps that are needed to progress the team. Teams need to learn how to play in playoffs before they can be contenders. I wasn't suggesting you thought we could do it next year, but some people seem to think drafting #1 or be a legit SC contender is the only place we should be. We need to take some baby steps into playoffs, sometimes that means holding onto a Hainsey. At worst it then costs us 2nd + 3rd or late 1st we might have gained from it, not a big deal, IMO.



Fair enough. And that does suck, but in reality that should have been a learning experience for a young Blue Jackets team that started them towards larger successes...but for whatever reason they couldn't figure out the game and regressed. And what should have been a key first step turned into a another sign of mediocrity. Too bad, but not a model I am at all concerned about. I don't see us following that model, but if we do a late 1st rounder is not going to make the difference, IMO.
Truce bro.

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03-16-2013, 10:27 PM
  #241
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100% with Jet and Holden here, among the others on this side of the fence.

It would have been extremely odd last season, for example, to see Ottawa trade Kuba, impending UFA and top 4 defenseman for a draft pick or two. And honestly, this Jets team in my own opinion is not far behind last years Sens team, all things considered. Especially when the year prior Ottawa sold at the deadline by getting rid of Fisher, Kelly, Kovalev, Campoli, Ruutu, etc.

For a team at our stage, where it is time to make that playoff push and make it if we can, you don't sell your players who got you this close to the dance. Plain and simple, it sends the wrong message right from the top of the organization to the bottom, to the players, coaches, fans, etc.

There is no "waiting until next year" ... We are here, we are competing, we are ready. Time to take that step. Our players would gain tremendously for making the playoffs as a group. It teaches absolute invaluable experience and gives lessons you don't learn as a player or team until you make it.


Last edited by Guerzy: 03-16-2013 at 10:33 PM.
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03-16-2013, 10:39 PM
  #242
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100% with Jet and Holden here, among the others on this side of the fence.

It would have been extremely odd last season, for example, to see Ottawa trade Kuba, impending UFA and top 4 defenseman for a draft pick or two. And honestly, this Jets team in my own opinion is not far behind last years Sens team, all things considered. Especially when the year prior Ottawa sold at the deadline by getting rid of Fisher, Kelly, Kovalev, Campoli, Ruutu, etc.

For a team at our stage, where it is time to make that playoff push and make it if we can, you don't sell your players who got you this close to the dance. Plain and simple, it sends the wrong message right from the top of the organization to the bottom, to the players, coaches, fans, etc.

There is no "waiting until next year" ... We are here, we are competing, we are ready. Time to take that step. Our players would gain tremendously for making the playoffs as a group. It teaches absolute invaluable experience and gives lessons you don't learn as a player or team until you make it.
And we have very streaky players (Kane, Wheeler, Pavs, Buff, etc) and if they get hot at the right time we could surprise a few teams in the playoffs!

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03-16-2013, 10:46 PM
  #243
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100% with Jet and Holden here, among the others on this side of the fence.

It would have been extremely odd last season, for example, to see Ottawa trade Kuba, impending UFA and top 4 defenseman for a draft pick or two. And honestly, this Jets team in my own opinion is not far behind last years Sens team, all things considered. Especially when the year prior Ottawa sold at the deadline by getting rid of Fisher, Kelly, Kovalev, Campoli, Ruutu, etc.

For a team at our stage, where it is time to make that playoff push and make it if we can, you don't sell your players who got you this close to the dance. Plain and simple, it sends the wrong message right from the top of the organization to the bottom, to the players, coaches, fans, etc.

There is no "waiting until next year" ... We are here, we are competing, we are ready. Time to take that step. Our players would gain tremendously for making the playoffs as a group. It teaches absolute invaluable experience and gives lessons you don't learn as a player or team until you make it.
Hainsey is probably going to be a hot commodity near the deadline given the amount of time he's seen on the ice this year...it would be a shame to lose him in the off-season for nothing.

What about using the assets from a Hainsey trade* to make another trade that could bolster our lineup and help make a playoff push?

*I can see Hainsey becoming available for the right price once Enstrom and Kulda return to the D-corp...I would not like to see him go without those two back.

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03-17-2013, 02:31 AM
  #244
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It's obvious we need a scoring RW, as Chevy said on tsn1290. Who do you think we should target?

Jarome Iginla
Corey Perry

Are both obviously at the top of the list, but would command too much.

I'm thinking more along the lines of:

Drew Stafford
Chris Stewart (good trading partner but would command a lot)
Eric Fehr (yes really)
David Jones

All have decent size and could be possibly acquired cheaply except Stewart.

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03-17-2013, 03:01 AM
  #245
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Imagine if we tried throwing in a couple thou to out bid WSH for Fehr

Ladd-Little-Wheeler
Kane-Joki-Fehr
Burmi-Antro-Welly/Mittens
Wright-Slater-Peluso
Welly/Mittens


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03-17-2013, 05:18 AM
  #246
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I wonder if Detroit would consider doing a Meech-for-White swap.

Apparently White has been scratched in something like 10 straight games and is a UFA at the end of the season. Detroit is the only team Meech might hold some value to, since they're familiar with him.

In the end, the Wings get a proper #7 defensemen while saving ~2 million and the Jets get a hometown depth defenseman.

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03-17-2013, 08:38 AM
  #247
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I wonder if Detroit would consider doing a Meech-for-White swap.

Apparently White has been scratched in something like 10 straight games and is a UFA at the end of the season. Detroit is the only team Meech might hold some value to, since they're familiar with him.

In the end, the Wings get a proper #7 defensemen while saving ~2 million and the Jets get a hometown depth defenseman.
It would take more than that. Despite the scratches, White is still one of the best defencemen that could be available as a rental.

I don't think Detroit is keen to move him. They could easily move him if they wanted.

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03-17-2013, 10:16 AM
  #248
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I was thinking about Iginla too. I think Flames likely want too much for him. But i bet they'd overvalue Adam Lowry. I'm assuming Iggy's an expiring contract.

I wonder if Lowry, Postma and a 2nd would be enough for Calgary. Not sure I want to pass on Lowry's potential though.

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03-17-2013, 10:24 AM
  #249
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I was thinking about Iginla too. I think Flames likely want too much for him. But i bet they'd overvalue Adam Lowry. I'm assuming Iggy's an expiring contract.

I wonder if Lowry, Postma and a 2nd would be enough for Calgary. Not sure I want to pass on Lowry's potential though.
I would not do that: too much potential to trade for an aging (albeit great) high level forward. If the Jets we're truly in contention for the SC this year, perhaps that would be worth it, as that might push them over the edge.

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03-17-2013, 10:42 AM
  #250
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No. That first will be a late first, maybe 25-35% chance of becoming a real player in 4-5 years. We need that playoff experience NOW. This team cannot keep finishing in the black hole of 9th to 12th in the conference, simply cannot keep happening.
100% agree

UFA Asset maximization right now real time for this organization is using them to help us become a playoff team!

Playoffs and what we learn from it > picks we would get in the future at this point in time IMO

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