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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XII)

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:47 PM
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
And Bogosian was billed as having no hockey IQ by Thrasher fans. I watched the 2010-2011 season and they weren't wrong. Bogosian was ****ing awful, anything that could go wrong would go wrong when Bogosian stepped on the ice. It was almost comical. His nickname was "Oh No-sian".

Also the size component is something I don't buy. Burmistrov is way too physical a player to throw that around as an actual reason.

Also how is a center (possibly the highest valued position in hockey) who already plays solid defensively, plays physically, and shows offensive upside and a puck control skill set not analogous to an athletic d-man? Witnessing what happened with Bogosian and being in the same offseason following the 2010-2011 season I would actually value the center higher. Especially given that he's proven at least capable of already being a 3rd line center at 21 in the NHL. Bogosian was barely capable of being anything on the blue line during that time.

In conclusion I think whatever asset we could parlay Burmistrov into now would look like a massive mistake 2-3 years down the road. Which is really the time frame we need to worry about. The only time those trades are made and don't look like mistakes are when the team wins the stanley cup (otherwise the Peverley for Stuart+Wheeler trade would look like robbery from Boston right now for instance) and sad to say, but I don't really see us as cup contenders this year.

We really have nothing to lose holding onto Burmistrov for another year or two. He's already an established 3rd line center IMO. At 23 if he doesn't improve one iota I don't think his trade stock is that far from where it is currently. It looks like we have little to gain by trading Burmistrov and a whole lot to lose.
I love all these points and in particular, the bolded. I know Gump places a premium on size but guys like Tangradi and *usually* Byfuglien show that having size doesn't mean that a player is going to add to that 'hitting, gritty, hard to play against' blueprint we are trying to install here. Burmistrov for long stretches this year was one of only a handful of Jets that were consistently physical. I think he can play that style and I think that his skill level really brings an element to that style of play that you need. He just needs to figure out the offensive side of the game.

The debate on Burmistrov is torrid but I fully expect him to be here for at least another year. You can see what he might become and I don't think smart GM's give up on that kind of potential easily.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:50 PM
  #352
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If the Jets were going to trade Burmistrov, is want an obvious upgrade coming back.

A guy like Stastny would be perfect, and Im sure once him and wheeler start to find their poetry in motion again....he'll have no problems resigning here.

Sam Gagner is also a guy that I would target in this target...especially since we're moving into a division with the Blackhawks.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:04 PM
  #353
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Plus, let's say Burmistrov is in fact at 175 lbs.

He is an awfully physical player for 175. Imagine him getting even heavier. He's still developing physically, so it's a realistic expectation.

The will is clearly there. Which I think always trumps height and weight.

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03-18-2013, 02:40 PM
  #354
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A lot of te debate is still up in the air. Patience needs to be had with young players. You can not compliment TNSE for having patience with Scheif but then go and advocate for moving a 21 year old in his 4th year in NA and say he won't improve.

P.S. Size is overrated and being tough to play against seems to be a slightly misunderstood concept; And I don't understand why exactly. lol


Last edited by Duke749: 03-18-2013 at 03:40 PM. Reason: Stay on-topic. :p Go away Guerzy. I'm just giving advice. lol
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Old
03-18-2013, 03:17 PM
  #355
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As long as Burmi keeps putting Chara on his rear end he's big enough for me. Seriously. He's stood up his fair share of guys this year. It's not size that matters but the strength you put behind it.

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03-18-2013, 03:23 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
A lot of te debate is still up in the air. Patience needs to be had with young players. You can not compliment TNSE for having patience with Scheif but then go and advocate for moving a 21 year old in his 4th year in NA and say he won't improve.

P.S. Size is overrated and being tough to play against seems to be a slightly misunderstood concept; And I don't understand why exactly. lol

The difference between patience when handling Scheifele versus Burmistrov is simple; one of the players is not an NHL veteran of 175 games. That should probably be self-evident though.

PS: Size can most definitely be a component of being difficult to play against. So can things like a willingness to follow a coach's orders and play a position as required, to adhere to systems play and not freelancing, and things like managing the puck efficiently versus continually ceding possession. Too bad Burmistrov has apparently been unable to grasp those concepts to this point.


Last edited by Guerzy: 03-18-2013 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Stay on-topic.
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03-18-2013, 03:30 PM
  #357
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I think we're going to see a number of tactful moves by Chevy before the deadline.

I think Antropov and Hainsey will either be delt or re-upped before the deadline. He will not let them go for nothing. I don't know the full details of their modified NTCs, but hopefully they're not too bad.

I think we will get a scoring RW before the deadline.

No big flashly trades.

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03-18-2013, 03:32 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The difference between patience when handling Scheifele versus Burmistrov is simple; one of the players is not an NHL veteran of 175 games. That should probably be self-evident though.
But if we'd mishandled Scheifele and put him in the NHL for the last 100+ games since he's been drafted they'd be in a similar place. Would you expect him to be better for having been mishandled and playing 100 games in the NHL when he shouldn't have instead of playing in junior like he (quite rightly, in my opinion) has? Because that's exactly what you're implying should be expected from Burmistrov.

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03-18-2013, 03:33 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post

I think we will get a scoring RW before the deadline.

No big flashly trades.
Might be tough to accomplish both those things.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:38 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The difference between patience when handling Scheifele versus Burmistrov is simple; one of the players is not an NHL veteran of 175 games. That should probably be self-evident though.

PS: Size can most definitely be a component of being difficult to play against. So can things like a willingness to follow a coach's orders and play a position as required, to adhere to systems play and not freelancing, and things like managing the puck efficiently versus continually ceding possession. Too bad Burmistrov has apparently been unable to grasp those concepts to this point.
I obviously dont understand. Can you please explain in what way 175 games of NHL experience is in any way less experience/development than the same amount of games at a lower level? If Scheifele ends up playing 175 games at lower levels before making the Jets is he automatically better than Burmistrov was at 175 NHL games played? Would you expect him to be incredible right away because he was handled the "right way"?

Should I not be critical of Scheifele since he has had X games of experience (regardless of where it is) and isn't an NHL star? Imo, thats exactly what you are doing to Burmistrov.


Last edited by atl thrasher344: 03-18-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 03:42 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by winterpeg View Post
But if we'd mishandled Scheifele and put him in the NHL for the last 100+ games since he's been drafted they'd be in a similar place. Would you expect him to be better for having been mishandled and playing 100 games in the NHL when he shouldn't have instead of playing in junior like he (quite rightly, in my opinion) has? Because that's exactly what you're implying should be expected from Burmistrov.
The other poster brought up Scheifele, not I. Did I say he shouldn't be in junior? No, so am unsure of your point. What should be expected of Burmistrov 175 games into his career is an ability to play continually at a level where he isn't annually in the coach's doghouse. That is all. He should really be in St. John's right now for the season, but he'd be subject to a waiver claim now. The NHL isn't a developmental league. Whatever.

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03-18-2013, 03:43 PM
  #362
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If the 175 games in the NHL implies they should be more developed than 175 games in a lower level, wouldn't that mean that sending Scheifele or any other high end prospect is always the wrong way to do things???

If you can judge someone on the numbers of NHL games played to where they should be at their developmental stage than you can't also believe in rushing or that a player would be appropriate and better served at a lower level. It sort of conflicts...

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03-18-2013, 03:43 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
If the Jets were going to trade Burmistrov, is want an obvious upgrade coming back.

A guy like Stastny would be perfect, and Im sure once him and wheeler start to find their poetry in motion again....he'll have no problems resigning here.

Sam Gagner is also a guy that I would target in this target...especially since we're moving into a division with the Blackhawks.
Stastny I'm all over. I would love him on our team.

Gagner if the price was right I wouldn't mind. He is instantly the most offensive talented centre on the Jets. I see two problems 1. Not sure that we have anything offer Edmonton that meets both our needs e.g. say Stuart or Hainsey or Burmistrov + whatever = probably not enough value for Edmonton, giving up Little or something along those lines is basically a lateral move (little more offence at the expense of some defence) 2. He is not of ideal size and physicality. If your top 2 centres are Little and Gagner. Unless we are counting on Schiefele contributing next year or Jokinen/Burmistrov stepping in so Little can play on the wing.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:50 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
I obviously dont understand. Can you please explain in what way 175 games of NHL experience is in any way less experience/development than the same amount of games at a lower level? If Scheifele ends up playing 175 games at lower levels before making the Jets is he automatically better than Burmistrov was at 175 NHL games played? Would you expect him to be incredible right away because he was handled the "right way"?

Should I not be critical of Scheifele since he has had X games of experience (regardless of where it is) and isn't an NHL star? Imo, thats exactly what you are doing to Burmistrov.
You clearly do not understand. A player with 175 games in the NHL has higher levels of expectations placed upon him versus a junior player. That was kind of the point when I initially made the statement. A player having played 175 NHL games should be capable by now of playing in a manner that is expected by his coach at this level. Obviously a junior player would not understand that level of expectation, nor should he be held to the same standard because he has yet to garner professional-level game experience to the same extent.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #365
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Meech is gone from the roster page on the jets site...

http://jets.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:25 PM
  #366
Holden Caulfield
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One name that crossed my mind was Dustin Penner. He is eternally lazy on many a night, but he has always stepped up to the plate in the post-season when it counts the most.

Skates well when he wants to, crashes the net and screens well, has the shot to finish.

If LA is looking to add someone at the deadline and wanted to shed salary we could probably get him cheap.

If the price was too high of abandon ship quickly, but I figured he'd have as good a chance to resign as anybody being from Winkler.
Pass. Penner is actually not all that lazy anymore, but he has slowed down immensely. Think Nik Antropov's skating (but not even close to his positional sense), combined with a weaker shot that Kyle Wellwood, and the hand of Chris Thorburn and you have Dustin Penner in his current state. All he is good for is puck protection. He has little in the way of hands or shooting, and is not a very good skater. He is done as an offensive player in this league, he can add some puck protection and battling out front to your bottom six, but won't produce hardly any offense.

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03-18-2013, 04:28 PM
  #367
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Meech is gone from the roster page on the jets site...

http://jets.nhl.com/club/roster.htm
Jets website is brutal for updating players, I wouldn't be surprised if he was never there to begin with.

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03-18-2013, 04:47 PM
  #368
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This is HF Gump, every league is a developmental league around here hehe

I think it's fine if he's in the "dog house" every now and again, he's still super young. If he has to sit out a few games here and there because his play drops off from the schedule grind, I don't see it as a reason to trade him. He's not entitled to anything either, so lets let him figure out where he wants to be. On the 2nd/3rd line or in the press box.

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03-18-2013, 04:49 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Pass. Penner is actually not all that lazy anymore, but he has slowed down immensely. Think Nik Antropov's skating (but not even close to his positional sense), combined with a weaker shot that Kyle Wellwood, and the hand of Chris Thorburn and you have Dustin Penner in his current state. All he is good for is puck protection. He has little in the way of hands or shooting, and is not a very good skater. He is done as an offensive player in this league, he can add some puck protection and battling out front to your bottom six, but won't produce hardly any offense.
Roger that Holden ill take you at your word. Sounds like an expensive version of Tangradi lol

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03-18-2013, 05:34 PM
  #370
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Roger that Holden ill take you at your word. Sounds like an expensive version of Tangradi lol
Nah...Tangradi is more physical Kings fans are pretty much ready to pay people to take him away, although he has been playing better of late, particularly now since he is down on the 3rd line. Don't think Kings will be trading him either way since the are in a win now mode. Perhaps Brad Richardson might be available (been a healthy scratch for every game this season except 2) and he would add ALOT of speed and some hard work to the bottom lines here, but even him I am thinking the Kings want to keep him as the #13 in case of injury.

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03-18-2013, 06:04 PM
  #371
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Annnnywayyyyyys... I think there is a Burmistrov thread around for people to continue the debate since it's kinda off topic in this thread (since there is no tangible trade talk surrounding him) and I'm sure that people are growing tired of what is becoming a circular argument.

More on-topic: How hard do you think the Jets will go after Andrej Sustr?

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
No surprise, but Andrej Sustr, 6-foot-8 Univ of Nebraska-Omaha junior dman (UFA), has officially decided to leave school/field NHL offers.

He's 6'8 but a twig at 200lbs. Could be a nice free agent pick-up however. Plus, he kinda looks like one of our mods




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03-18-2013, 06:05 PM
  #372
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Nah...Tangradi is more physical Kings fans are pretty much ready to pay people to take him away, although he has been playing better of late, particularly now since he is down on the 3rd line. Don't think Kings will be trading him either way since the are in a win now mode. Perhaps Brad Richardson might be available (been a healthy scratch for every game this season except 2) and he would add ALOT of speed and some hard work to the bottom lines here, but even him I am thinking the Kings want to keep him as the #13 in case of injury.
Never seen a player have a better paying, longer career from a couple of spurts of good play surrounded by pure crap.

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03-18-2013, 06:08 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Nah...Tangradi is more physical Kings fans are pretty much ready to pay people to take him away, although he has been playing better of late, particularly now since he is down on the 3rd line. Don't think Kings will be trading him either way since the are in a win now mode. Perhaps Brad Richardson might be available (been a healthy scratch for every game this season except 2) and he would add ALOT of speed and some hard work to the bottom lines here, but even him I am thinking the Kings want to keep him as the #13 in case of injury.
I like him. He probably wouldn't be too hard to pry away.

I am a little surprised Chevy hasn't been all over their scraps, winning culture and what not. Loki would have been nice too.

EDIT

Richardson that is.


Last edited by truck: 03-18-2013 at 06:17 PM.
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03-18-2013, 06:16 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
Annnnywayyyyyys... I think there is a Burmistrov thread around for people to continue the debate since it's kinda off topic in this thread (since there is no tangible trade talk surrounding him) and I'm sure that people are growing tired of what is becoming a circular argument.

More on-topic: How hard do you think the Jets will go after Andrej Sustr?

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
No surprise, but Andrej Sustr, 6-foot-8 Univ of Nebraska-Omaha junior dman (UFA), has officially decided to leave school/field NHL offers.

He's 6'8 but a twig at 200lbs. Could be a nice free agent pick-up however. Plus, he kinda looks like one of our mods



I hope so. Yay for free prospects.

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:18 PM
  #375
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Not sure how hard we will go after Sustr. Apparently he wants regular ice time, Buff and Bogosian have the right side locked up pretty good.

We'll see what happens. Maybe Pavelec can convince him. Signing young UFAs is always a bonus.

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