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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XII)

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:13 PM
  #451
broinwhyteridge
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
A Greek football player was recently banned from international competition because after he scored a goal he threw a nazi salute. He claimed he didn't know what the gesture meant.

Blackface is racist and has historically been used to promote negative stereotypes for blacks. I'm glad it made news as people should know that racist acts should not be allowed, and people that are ignorant of racial meanings behind certain things need to be educated on them, so that those racist things can be kept out of our society.
Well;

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Blackface is a form of theatrical makeup used in minstrel shows, and later vaudeville, in which performers create a stereotyped caricature of a black person. The practice gained popularity during the 19th century and contributed to the proliferation of stereotypes such as the "happy-go-lucky darky on the plantation" or the "dandified coon". In 1848, blackface minstrel shows were an American national art of the time, translating formal art such as opera into popular terms for a general audience. Early in the 20th century, blackface branched off from the minstrel show and became a form in its own right, until it ended in the United States with the U.S. Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s.

Blackface was an important performance tradition in the American theater for roughly 100 years beginning around 1830. It quickly became popular elsewhere, particularly so in Britain, where the tradition lasted longer than in the US, occurring on primetime TV as late as 1978 (The Black and White Minstrel Show) and 1981. In both the United States and Britain, blackface was most commonly used in the minstrel performance tradition, but it predates that tradition, and it survived long past the heyday of the minstrel show. White blackface performers in the past used burnt cork and later greasepaint or shoe polish to blacken their skin and exaggerate their lips, often wearing woolly wigs, gloves, tailcoats, or ragged clothes to complete the transformation. Later, black artists also performed in blackface.

Stereotypes embodied in the stock characters of blackface minstrels not only played a significant role in cementing and proliferating racist images, attitudes and perceptions worldwide, but also in popularizing black culture. In some quarters, the caricatures that were the legacy of blackface persist to the present day and are a cause of ongoing controversy. Another view is that "blackface is a form of cross-dressing in which one puts on the insignias of a sex, class, or race that stands in binary opposition to one's own."

By the mid-20th century, changing attitudes about race and racism effectively ended the prominence of blackface makeup used in performance in the U.S. and elsewhere. It remains in relatively limited use as a theatrical device and is more commonly used today as social commentary or satire. Perhaps the most enduring effect of blackface is the precedent it established in the introduction of African American culture to an international audience, albeit through a distorted lens. Blackface's groundbreaking appropriation, exploitation, and assimilation of African-American culture—as well as the inter-ethnic artistic collaborations that stemmed from it—were but a prologue to the lucrative packaging, marketing, and dissemination of African-American cultural expression and its myriad derivative forms in today's world popular culture.
It would seem that this would be a better topic for a history or perhaps social studies lecture, not a hockey forum. These guys are athletes, not generally associated with being the most intelligent person in the room... I'm reasonably sure Torres (although I can't stand the guy) didn't think quite so deeply about it (nor did he mean it in the way so many seem to have dedicated themselves to interpret it.

Would Torres make the Jets a better team? If not, don't make the move... but make it for hockey reasons, not because of some self assigned "responsibility" to be offended on behalf of everyone else.

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03-20-2013, 04:21 PM
  #452
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I like what Torres and his girlfriend did.

Jay-Z and Beyonce are a very admirable couple. They both rose up from nothing to be two of the wealthiest people in the world. I have deep respect for that, Raffi has deep respect for that. I think it's pretty cool.

Trying to say it's racist for him to admire and emulate a black person is ridiculous and more damaging to the actual real issue of racism itself. You have to tackle real examples of racism. Jumping on false alarms and being overly sensitive only works to dilute the real problem and confuse the issue at hand.

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03-20-2013, 04:40 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge View Post
Well;



It would seem that this would be a better topic for a history or perhaps social studies lecture, not a hockey forum. These guys are athletes, not generally associated with being the most intelligent person in the room... I'm reasonably sure Torres (although I can't stand the guy) didn't think quite so deeply about it (nor did he mean it in the way so many seem to have dedicated themselves to interpret it.
That made me as well as being an excellent point... probably a moot point anyway as I would be surprised if TNSE was interested... a cheapshotting douchebagge with poor judgement would seem to play against type for them.

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03-20-2013, 04:44 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
A Greek football player was recently banned from international competition because after he scored a goal he threw a nazi salute. He claimed he didn't know what the gesture meant.

Blackface is racist and has historically been used to promote negative stereotypes for blacks. I'm glad it made news as people should know that racist acts should not be allowed, and people that are ignorant of racial meanings behind certain things need to be educated on them, so that those racist things can be kept out of our society.
This football player was emulating a Nazi. Nazi's are terrible.

Torres was emulating Jay-Z who he admires, and using black makeup to appear more like him. I bet you Jay-Z would not be offended. I bet you anything many many people were offended by the football player.

As for Torres, liked him on the canucks, and loved the term "nuke on a chain" that a previous poster used, but that's exactly why I don't want him on the Jets.

One of the things I love about the Jets (possibly most of all), No dirty players, and no diving. Hard work hard work hard work.

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03-20-2013, 05:07 PM
  #455
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Wow guys. Since when did it become Racist to dress up as a black person for Halloween?

You must have nothing but hate for Robert Downey Jr for his role in Tropic Thunder.

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03-20-2013, 05:16 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Wow guys. Since when did it become Racist to dress up as a black person for Halloween?

You must have nothing but hate for Robert Downey Jr for his role in Tropic Thunder.
Last year I came across a blog post from a native American, who was pissed off that people dressed as natives/indians for halloween.
Give me a break.

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03-20-2013, 05:17 PM
  #457
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I like what Torres and his girlfriend did.

Jay-Z and Beyonce are a very admirable couple. They both rose up from nothing to be two of the wealthiest people in the world. I have deep respect for that, Raffi has deep respect for that. I think it's pretty cool.

Trying to say it's racist for him to admire and emulate a black person is ridiculous and more damaging to the actual real issue of racism itself. You have to tackle real examples of racism. Jumping on false alarms and being overly sensitive only works to dilute the real problem and confuse the issue at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterpeg View Post
This football player was emulating a Nazi. Nazi's are terrible.

Torres was emulating Jay-Z who he admires, and using black makeup to appear more like him. I bet you Jay-Z would not be offended. I bet you anything many many people were offended by the football player.
What Torres did was not racist. Racist would imply intent on his behalf and by all accounts there was none. He was just ignorant.

However, it was very racially insensitive.

Blackface, regardless of intent, is never appropriate in the US. Period.

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03-20-2013, 05:19 PM
  #458
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What Torres did was not racist. Racist would imply intent on his behalf and by all accounts there was none. He was just ignorant.

However, it was very racially insensitive.

Blackface, regardless of intent, is never appropriate in the US. Period.
So if I wanted to to as the President of the United States for Halloween....that would be racist? Did anyone bother to ask Jayzee or Beyonce to see what they thought?

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03-20-2013, 05:25 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Wow guys. Since when did it become Racist to dress up as a black person for Halloween?

You must have nothing but hate for Robert Downey Jr for his role in Tropic Thunder.
Err, maybe you are unfamiliar with blackface, but a lot of effort was taken in Tropic Thunder make it very clear that they were consciously playing with and parodying the phenomena.

They walked an incredibly fine line with that movie, and for the most part they pulled it off, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think there was wasn't a tonne of concern over that aspect of the movie when it was coming out.

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03-20-2013, 05:26 PM
  #460
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So if I wanted to to as the President of the United States for Halloween....that would be racist? Did anyone bother to ask Jayzee or Beyonce to see what they thought?
Do you even know what blackface is?

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03-20-2013, 05:51 PM
  #461
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A full page of this? Ugh.

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Old
03-20-2013, 05:58 PM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
A Greek football player was recently banned from international competition because after he scored a goal he threw a nazi salute. He claimed he didn't know what the gesture meant.

Blackface is racist and has historically been used to promote negative stereotypes for blacks. I'm glad it made news as people should know that racist acts should not be allowed, and people that are ignorant of racial meanings behind certain things need to be educated on them, so that those racist things can be kept out of our society.
Well if we are going to go down that road, then no one should be able to dress up as ANYTHING for Halloween cause you would be demeaning someone, right?

There is a GIGANTIC difference between 'blackface' (Which for the record is using night black shoe polish on your face) and dressing up as someone of color (where you use brown makeup to match that person's skin tone).

How anyone can confuse the two is astounding. If someone dresses up as Richard Simmons, I sure the hell dont get offended.

At any rate, I am taking this thread OT and I apologise, back to Free Agents, Speculation, etc, etc!

I would LOVE to have Iginla on this team. I think he might command quite a bit though. Price is probably too high for Chevy.

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:22 PM
  #463
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I thought we were passed this socially constructed thing called racism. He dressed up like a different looking human. get over it

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03-20-2013, 06:24 PM
  #464
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I thought we were passed this socially constructed thing called racism. He dressed up like a different looking human. get over it
We won't be passed it until people stop making a big issue about it. There has always been racism. There likely will always be racism. That's a fact of life, unfortunately.

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03-20-2013, 06:25 PM
  #465
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Well if we are going to go down that road, then no one should be able to dress up as ANYTHING for Halloween cause you would be demeaning someone, right?

There is a GIGANTIC difference between 'blackface' (Which for the record is using night black shoe polish on your face) and dressing up as someone of color (where you use brown makeup to match that person's skin tone).

How anyone can confuse the two is astounding. If someone dresses up as Richard Simmons, I sure the hell dont get offended.

At any rate, I am taking this thread OT and I apologise, back to Free Agents, Speculation, etc, etc!

I would LOVE to have Iginla on this team. I think he might command quite a bit though. Price is probably too high for Chevy.
Why would you get offended? Do you have frizzy hair or are a fitness guru?


Anyways, I think you'll be holding your breath for a long long time for Iggy to be traded here lol.

What do we think the price is for 1st rd picks this year is? I'd like snag one or two.

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03-20-2013, 06:34 PM
  #466
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Well he did have almost as many points last year as OEL in less games. He is starting to produce now probably because he is starting to get in game shape. His issue is his health. But I think I would be happy locking him up long term for 4.5/5 per year
I think you might be able to sign Bogo for $4.5 M per on a 4 year deal, but do you really want him to become an UFA at age 26 just when he his hitting his prime. Or do you try to lock him up for 7-8 years at less than $1 M more per year of cap hit. In the long term I know what I hope the Jets do.

IMO With the make up of our defense points are not the best way to judge Bogo's value. We have plenty of offense with Buff and Toby. We need him to be the anchor.

BTW just a couple pages ago we were discussing if Statsny is worth a $6.6 M cap hit, now you be the judge who would be worth more to the Jets.

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03-20-2013, 06:55 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
A Greek football player was recently banned from international competition because after he scored a goal he threw a nazi salute. He claimed he didn't know what the gesture meant.

Blackface is racist and has historically been used to promote negative stereotypes for blacks. I'm glad it made news as people should know that racist acts should not be allowed, and people that are ignorant of racial meanings behind certain things need to be educated on them, so that those racist things can be kept out of our society.
This

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03-20-2013, 07:04 PM
  #468
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I guess I should get upset everytime someone dresses up as the stereotype native american Indian.

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03-20-2013, 07:24 PM
  #469
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That makes two of us. But who/what pick to give up?
Talking with Buffalo posters on the trade board, there seemed to be some support for a deal centered around Cormier + Stuart for Stafford. I would say either Cormier + Stuart or Stuart + Chicago's 2nd.

Could go either way. If Stafford comes close to replicating his 2010-11 or even 2011-12 numbers in Winnipeg over the next 2 1/2 years of his contract, it's a win for us. If those years were a mirage and he's really a 0.5 PPG type of player, then it's probably not so good.

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03-20-2013, 07:47 PM
  #470
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Talking with Buffalo posters on the trade board, there seemed to be some support for a deal centered around Cormier + Stuart for Stafford. I would say either Cormier + Stuart or Stuart + Chicago's 2nd.

Could go either way. If Stafford comes close to replicating his 2010-11 or even 2011-12 numbers in Winnipeg over the next 2 1/2 years of his contract, it's a win for us. If those years were a mirage and he's really a 0.5 PPG type of player, then it's probably not so good.
I would do this. Hopefully doing this would mean re-signing Hainsey to a 2 year 4-5 mil deal.

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03-20-2013, 07:52 PM
  #471
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I think Stafford is likely a 40-50 point guy playing with Kane maybe closer to 50 as he would get a ton of assists. Stuart or Postma and a pick/Cormier or something like that would be a great deal for the Jets uses redundant assets to get something the team really needs. Not really interested in Torres but if PHX is selling would love to have Byod Gordon on the 4th line and David Moss on the 3rd, both have shown the ability to play tough minutes and not get killed while doing so. They are also both major upgrades over the incumbents at RW. Don't think there is any chance of the Jets getting both but maybe Moss for a pick and Gordon as a UFA? I like the look of:
LLW
Kane/Schief/???
Burmi/Joker/Moss
Wright/Slater/Gordon

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03-20-2013, 07:54 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Talking with Buffalo posters on the trade board, there seemed to be some support for a deal centered around Cormier + Stuart for Stafford. I would say either Cormier + Stuart or Stuart + Chicago's 2nd.

Could go either way. If Stafford comes close to replicating his 2010-11 or even 2011-12 numbers in Winnipeg over the next 2 1/2 years of his contract, it's a win for us. If those years were a mirage and he's really a 0.5 PPG type of player, then it's probably not so good.
Buffalo would be looking to rebuild no? I'm guessing Stuart wouldn't interest them too much, plus we need Stuart he is a perfect bottom pairing left side D. Postma would be much more interesting to them IMO he is young and has upside, also we are more than set on the right side provided Redmond recovers and Trouba is even half decent.

The only trades that would make sense for Buffalo and us are a player like Postma, Cormier, Klingberg (if he has any value left), or O'Dell + Chicago's 2nd and possibly Chicago's 3rd even though I feel that is getting on the pricey side.

On a side note (I know this isn't going to happen) how great would Bouwmeester fit in our defence?

Enstrom Byfuglien (offence puck moving pair)
Bouwmeester Bogosian (swift skating, shut down pair)
Stuart Redmond*(nice bottom pairing)
Kulda

and Trouba on the way

*if he recovers

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03-20-2013, 07:56 PM
  #473
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Talking with Buffalo posters on the trade board, there seemed to be some support for a deal centered around Cormier + Stuart for Stafford. I would say either Cormier + Stuart or Stuart + Chicago's 2nd.

Could go either way. If Stafford comes close to replicating his 2010-11 or even 2011-12 numbers in Winnipeg over the next 2 1/2 years of his contract, it's a win for us. If those years were a mirage and he's really a 0.5 PPG type of player, then it's probably not so good.
Giving up Stu would hurt but Stafford is a perfect fit for us. He's also got term on his contract which I guess could be seen as good and bad, but I honestly think he'd be a really huge addition to this team.

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03-20-2013, 08:03 PM
  #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Talking with Buffalo posters on the trade board, there seemed to be some support for a deal centered around Cormier + Stuart for Stafford. I would say either Cormier + Stuart or Stuart + Chicago's 2nd.

Could go either way. If Stafford comes close to replicating his 2010-11 or even 2011-12 numbers in Winnipeg over the next 2 1/2 years of his contract, it's a win for us. If those years were a mirage and he's really a 0.5 PPG type of player, then it's probably not so good.
I still worry about the craziness that is Darcy Regier. Demanding a 1st for Gaustad was pretty shocking.

I think we could make a good package for Stafford though. Just no way he's worth our 1st. I am worried another team could offer a first though.

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03-20-2013, 08:07 PM
  #475
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I still worry about the craziness that is Darcy Regier. Demanding a 1st for Gaustad was pretty shocking.

I think we could make a good package for Stafford though. Just no way he's worth our 1st. I am worried another team could offer a first though.
Meh. Let another team overpay then. Lot's of teams will be looking to move salary this summer with the cap coming down.

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