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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XII)

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Old
03-16-2013, 02:34 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Absolutely not. Little+ for a soon to be UFA? I wouldn't trade Little alone for that...let alone add. Also...we need Little going into the the Playoffs. You need scoring depth, and trading Little turns this into a lateral trade and relatively pointless.

Stastny's value is at a low right now. Sherman has two centres that are currently pushing him out of a spot, and I doubt tht Stastny will take a reduction in pay to be a third line centre. He almost has to deal him, or risk not losing him for nothing.
Good point on the last paragraph. I think we are better off just overpaying by a mil or two to get him in July. It would be definitely pushing out Jokinen, but judging by his play this year that's a plus. He's new, but he's making Antropov's salary look reasonable...

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03-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  #202
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Doesn't statsnys contract expire at the end of next season?

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03-16-2013, 02:44 PM
  #203
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Just so everyone is clear, Statsny has a year left at 6.6 after this year.

I'm not sure if he's the fish that the Jets want to fry, especially if we have to give up an important player to get him.

When you think about it logically, is he enough of an upgrade over Bryan Little that we are going to pay him an extra 4MM and give up RFA power?

I don't think so.

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03-16-2013, 02:56 PM
  #204
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Probably should have looked that up....

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Old
03-16-2013, 02:56 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
The one thing I would add to this is I think we may be overstating the worth of a second rounder a wee bit. Yes, they can turn into marvelous players but more often than not they are either dime a dozen role players or guys who never stick in the NHL. Besides that someone picked there is going to take several years to be a meaningful player IF they ever get there.

IF we can make a deal that significantly improves us, vaults us into the playoffs, and helps the club:

- earn extra revenue (could be put towards players)
- gain reputation as a winning org with the league (helps in signing players)
- and get our players playoff experience/ help build a winning atmosphere
- get us a leg up on re signing that rental if he likes it here, and we do well with him.


I think you ABSOLUTELY trade your 2nd/ 3rd rounders for that. We do have extras this year and though I understand the 'deep draft' and 'organizational depth building' arguments, I think an argument can be made that the bullet points I listed above make us a better organization now and in the future than drafting a couple of extra 'gambles'.

I know this board is called HOCKEY'S FUTURE but you can't endlessly be trying to replace established NHL players with shiny new pieces that can't play in the league *yet*. It's a balance.
2nd and 3rd rounders are absolutely fair game to improve the team. I've been vocal about needing to sell UFAs that won't re-sign, but that's not because I'm in love with picks. I just like the flexibility they provide Chevy to change (hopefully improve) this team. Draft picks can be the grease that enable trades to occur.

I still say the Jets HAVE to either sign The Hains to an extension or trade him. He just has too much value to warrant keeping him for 10 games plus playoffs. With Enstrom coming back, we can deal with the loss and the ammo you get from Hainsey can be used to acquire help elsewhere.

It's possible Chevy will be a seller and a buyer at the deadline.

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03-16-2013, 03:01 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
2nd and 3rd rounders are absolutely fair game to improve the team. I've been vocal about needing to sell UFAs that won't re-sign, but that's not because I'm in love with picks. I just like the flexibility they provide Chevy to change (hopefully improve) this team. Draft picks can be the grease that enable trades to occur.

I still say the Jets HAVE to either sign The Hains to an extension or trade him. He just has too much value to warrant keeping him for 10 games plus playoffs. With Enstrom coming back, we can deal with the loss and the ammo you get from Hainsey can be used to acquire help elsewhere.

It's possible Chevy will be a seller and a buyer at the deadline.
So by your logic...we would have one top pair...and half a second pair. Then a slough of bottom
Pairing Defensemen. That is going to be awful come playoff time. We'd get torn apart in the first round.

Unless we got another Defenseman coming back, trading Hainsey when we're on the brink like this is probably the worst idea ever.

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03-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #207
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Technically speaking the Jets only have 1 year of team control left on Bryan Little as well. Not saying he will but Little could take a 1 year deal and then hit UFA just as easily as Stastny. While we here in Winnipeg think that's unlikely an opposing GM would have to take that into account in any trade discussions. Overall I don't think Stastny would be the answer for the Jets they have other significant holes in the roster that need to be filled.

On the main trade board someone brought up Stafford, he fits the Chevy mold and could be had for limited assets. Something like Postma + 2014 pick should be enough to get it done, hes also signed for 2 more years at 4.0M per which is to much but not a terrible overpay. His value is at an all time low right now and it could be the perfect change of scenery trade that costs little in the form of assets but fills a big hole on a team looking to make a push for the top 8.

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03-16-2013, 03:16 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
So by your logic...we would have one top pair...and half a second pair. Then a slough of bottom
Pairing Defensemen.
That is going to be awful come playoff time. We'd get torn apart in the first round.

Unless we got another Defenseman coming back, trading Hainsey when we're on the brink like this is probably the worst idea ever.
You mean exactly like what we have right now?

You and I clearly won't agree on how to deal with expiring contracts that show no sign of wanting to stick around (not saying Hainsey fits that bill yet though).

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03-16-2013, 03:18 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
So by your logic...we would have one top pair...and half a second pair. Then a slough of bottom
Pairing Defensemen. That is going to be awful come playoff time. We'd get torn apart in the first round.

Unless we got another Defenseman coming back, trading Hainsey when we're on the brink like this is probably the worst idea ever.
They're going to get torn apart in any 1st round playoff series (assuming they make it in) regardless of whether or not Hainsey is with the team. As the Jets best movable asset he should be dealt ether way.

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03-16-2013, 03:45 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpgpage View Post
They're going to get torn apart in any 1st round playoff series (assuming they make it in) regardless of whether or not Hainsey is with the team. As the Jets best movable asset he should be dealt ether way.
I'm not sure I agree. If we take the Southeast we could draw Ottawa, Jersey or Toronto. All teams we could be competitive with.

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03-16-2013, 04:03 PM
  #211
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You win playoff series based on your depth. This is
Not news to anybody. Isn't this the goal of any organization? To make the post season?

Without a proper defensive core...we will lose in the first round, make no mistake about it.

Unless there is a better "Hainsey" that we are some how going to acquire....he should stay where he is.

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03-16-2013, 04:11 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
2nd and 3rd rounders are absolutely fair game to improve the team. I've been vocal about needing to sell UFAs that won't re-sign, but that's not because I'm in love with picks. I just like the flexibility they provide Chevy to change (hopefully improve) this team. Draft picks can be the grease that enable trades to occur.

I still say the Jets HAVE to either sign The Hains to an extension or trade him. He just has too much value to warrant keeping him for 10 games plus playoffs. With Enstrom coming back, we can deal with the loss and the ammo you get from Hainsey can be used to acquire help elsewhere.

It's possible Chevy will be a seller and a buyer at the deadline.
I agree. Hainsey's gotta be moved this deadline if he's not resigned. He hits free agency, and someone will pay more than he's worth and he's not coming back.

As for what we have left moving forward (possibly into the playoffs).... Enstrom should be back and our top 4 could look something like this...
Buff - Enstrom
Bogo - Clitsome/Kulda

With the bottom 2 being a combination of Clitsome/Kulda, Stuart, Postma and even Meech (Who's been averaging 13:46 per game and is +2) depending on how he plays the rest of the way.

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Old
03-16-2013, 04:24 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
You win playoff series based on your depth. This is
Not news to anybody. Isn't this the goal of any organization? To make the post season?
Without a proper defensive core...we will lose in the first round, make no mistake about it.

Unless there is a better "Hainsey" that we are some how going to acquire....he should stay where he is.
It's WAAAAAAY more complicated than making the playoffs this year. The goal of the organization should be to be the absolute best it can be over an extended period of time (like forever).

How you weigh "now" versus "later" is where the debate lies I suppose.

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03-16-2013, 04:24 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Wpgpage View Post
They're going to get torn apart in any 1st round playoff series (assuming they make it in) regardless of whether or not Hainsey is with the team. As the Jets best movable asset he should be dealt ether way.
In this age of parity, once you make the playoffs anything can happen. Would I like our chances against the Bruins or the Pens, no not really? If they are 3rd and draw the Sens, leafs, Devils or a couple others yeah I like their chances to win the series. If were in playoff position I hope they don't dump players unless they get real value back.

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03-16-2013, 04:27 PM
  #215
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I agree. Hainsey's gotta be moved this deadline if he's not resigned. He hits free agency, and someone will pay more than he's worth and he's not coming back.

As for what we have left moving forward (possibly into the playoffs).... Enstrom should be back and our top 4 could look something like this...
Buff - Enstrom
Bogo - Clitsome/Kulda

With the bottom 2 being a combination of Clitsome/Kulda, Stuart, Postma and even Meech (Who's been averaging 13:46 per game and is +2) depending on how he plays the rest of the way.
And we all know how that ends. That D core is very scary heading into the playoffs. Who cares if he doesn't resign. We can look at a replacement in the off season.

And what would make you think that Hainsey doesn't want to resign? It's not like he's said anything.

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03-16-2013, 04:30 PM
  #216
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It's a total loser mentality to trade a top 4 defenseman away if it looks like you are making the playoffs, regardless of that players status.

I would bet BIG money that Chevy/ the Jets will NOT do this. I also think it's ridiculous to say that ANY team that makes the playoffs can't get hot, ride a hot goalie, and make it to the finals or maybe win it all. You certainly don't do that by giving key pieces away for picks at the deadline.

No one would have picked the Kings last year or a Hurricanes/ Oilers final in 06.

If Cheveldayoff trades Hainsey at the deadline when it looks like we will make the playoffs I would be absolutely shocked.

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03-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #217
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They're going to get torn apart in any 1st round playoff series (assuming they make it in) regardless of whether or not Hainsey is with the team. As the Jets best movable asset he should be dealt ether way.
It just doesn't matter though. All teams go through some "growth" years where they are a playoff team, but not a true SC contender. You need those years. You can't just sell every year then magically go from non-playoff team to instant Stanley Cup winner. It quite simply does not work like that.

We need to keep Hainsey since this team needs to take the first baby step from near playoff team to playoff team. How we do once we get there is not overly important in the near term. But there is no assets we can gain via a Hainsey trade that is more valuable that the playoff experience we will gain, IMO. Not too mention the message it sends to players by keeping him, a show that mediocrity will no longer be accepted and we are going for the playoffs. That is super important.

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03-16-2013, 04:36 PM
  #218
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It's WAAAAAAY more complicated than making the playoffs this year. The goal of the organization should be to be the absolute best it can be over an extended period of time (like forever).

How you weigh "now" versus "later" is where the debate lies I suppose.
I agree...but that does not mean you trade away a good top four defensman for the sake of the future when you are in a position to compete right now. If we were out of the position...I'd agree with you.

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03-16-2013, 04:36 PM
  #219
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It's a total loser mentality to trade a top 4 defenseman away if it looks like you are making the playoffs, regardless of that players status.

I would bet BIG money that Chevy/ the Jets will NOT do this. I also think it's ridiculous to say that ANY team that makes the playoffs can't get hot, ride a hot goalie, and make it to the finals or maybe win it all. You certainly don't do that by giving key pieces away for picks at the deadline.

No one would have picked the Kings last year or a Hurricanes/ Oilers final in 06.

If Cheveldayoff trades Hainsey at the deadline when it looks like we will make the playoffs I would be absolutely shocked.
Um, I did. Many people knew that they were underachieving during the season and they were not a typical 8th seed.

But Edmonton in 06 is a good example. They were in 10th at the deadline, IIRC, and they went out and bought acquiring UFA's to be in Dwayne Roloson and Sergei Samsonov. Worked out great for them that year.

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03-16-2013, 04:43 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
And we all know how that ends. That D core is very scary heading into the playoffs. Who cares if he doesn't resign. We can look at a replacement in the off season.

And what would make you think that Hainsey doesn't want to resign? It's not like he's said anything.
I think it's Cheveldayoff's job to know this by now.

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03-16-2013, 04:53 PM
  #221
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It's a total loser mentality to trade a top 4 defenseman away if it looks like you are making the playoffs, regardless of that players status.

I would bet BIG money that Chevy/ the Jets will NOT do this. I also think it's ridiculous to say that ANY team that makes the playoffs can't get hot, ride a hot goalie, and make it to the finals or maybe win it all. You certainly don't do that by giving key pieces away for picks at the deadline.

No one would have picked the Kings last year or a Hurricanes/ Oilers final in 06.

If Cheveldayoff trades Hainsey at the deadline when it looks like we will make the playoffs I would be absolutely shocked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
It just doesn't matter though. All teams go through some "growth" years where they are a playoff team, but not a true SC contender. You need those years. You can't just sell every year then magically go from non-playoff team to instant Stanley Cup winner. It quite simply does not work like that.

We need to keep Hainsey since this team needs to take the first baby step from near playoff team to playoff team. How we do once we get there is not overly important in the near term. But there is no assets we can gain via a Hainsey trade that is more valuable that the playoff experience we will gain, IMO. Not too mention the message it sends to players by keeping him, a show that mediocrity will no longer be accepted and we are going for the playoffs. That is super important.
Agreed and agreed. If we make the playoffs I want to go in with the strongest lineup possible and let the chips fall where they may.

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03-16-2013, 04:55 PM
  #222
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Um, I did. Many people knew that they were underachieving during the season and they were not a typical 8th seed.

But Edmonton in 06 is a good example. They were in 10th at the deadline, IIRC, and they went out and bought acquiring UFA's to be in Dwayne Roloson and Sergei Samsonov. Worked out great for them that year.
I picked them after they spanked the Canucks lol...even then people were doubting me lol. I dealt with alot of absue at work.

I was waiting for you and Jet(i know your handle is Brogosian now, but you'll always be Jet in my heart) to show up in this thread to back me up lol.

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03-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #223
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I think it's Cheveldayoff's job to know this by now.
Agree.

However its not like they are particularily forth coming with that information...so I repeat my previous question.

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03-16-2013, 05:01 PM
  #224
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It's a total loser mentality to trade a top 4 defenseman away if it looks like you are making the playoffs, regardless of that players status.

I would bet BIG money that Chevy/ the Jets will NOT do this. I also think it's ridiculous to say that ANY team that makes the playoffs can't get hot, ride a hot goalie, and make it to the finals or maybe win it all. You certainly don't do that by giving key pieces away for picks at the deadline.

No one would have picked the Kings last year or a Hurricanes/ Oilers final in 06.

If Cheveldayoff trades Hainsey at the deadline when it looks like we will make the playoffs I would be absolutely shocked.
The statistical community was saying that LAK were one of the strongest teams in the NHL and were under-performing using the same reasoning as they are now in saying Toronto has been over-performing, even prior to the Carter trade.
LA finished the season 4th in the league in Fenwick
Currently LA is first in the league in Fenwick for this season

Can't predict the future but you can look at performance in the past and make educated guesses haha

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03-16-2013, 05:03 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
It's a total loser mentality to trade a top 4 defenseman away if it looks like you are making the playoffs, regardless of that players status.

I would bet BIG money that Chevy/ the Jets will NOT do this. I also think it's ridiculous to say that ANY team that makes the playoffs can't get hot, ride a hot goalie, and make it to the finals or maybe win it all. You certainly don't do that by giving key pieces away for picks at the deadline.

No one would have picked the Kings last year or a Hurricanes/ Oilers final in 06.

If Cheveldayoff trades Hainsey at the deadline when it looks like we will make the playoffs I would be absolutely shocked.
I think it all depends on the market near the deadline and Hainsey's willingness to re-sign. You might want to be prepared to be shocked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
It just doesn't matter though. All teams go through some "growth" years where they are a playoff team, but not a true SC contender. You need those years. You can't just sell every year then magically go from non-playoff team to instant Stanley Cup winner. It quite simply does not work like that.

We need to keep Hainsey since this team needs to take the first baby step from near playoff team to playoff team. How we do once we get there is not overly important in the near term. But there is no assets we can gain via a Hainsey trade that is more valuable that the playoff experience we will gain, IMO. Not too mention the message it sends to players by keeping him, a show that mediocrity will no longer be accepted and we are going for the playoffs. That is super important.
Again, it depends on the market. What if we could turn Hainsey (if he outright tells Chevy he will test the market) and a 3rd for a 1st? You don't do that?

I'm coming across like I'm dead-set on dealing Hainsey which is certainly not the case. I'm just saying that I don't think Chevy has closed that door like you guys seem to be implying.

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