I've been watching Lehner for three years now, two words, five hole. He needs to fix it.
Watch the shootout again last night, he knows it's a weakness. He got destroyed five hole in the last shootout he was in, and what did the Bruins do, five hole. The book is out on Lehner. He put his stick down on Marchand and got lucky, then he goes down early on Krejci and he goes shelf. This isn't rocket science to notice.
I'm a Lehner fan and think he'll only get better - you have to always remember he's very young.
But just to be the devil's advocate, its weird how with some of you nothing bad can be said about him.
I guess it depends on the bad things that are said about him.
Like he had a clear view at a shot that came through a teammate.
That he gets beaten 5-hole all the time. (so did Roy)
That he "looks like a dick". (so was Roy)
I have no problem with saying that's a shot he needs to stop, and that he'll learn because he's so young, but some people also like to forget all of the saves he made and only focus on the goals that beat him.
I've always defended our goalies (except Gerber) though, and feel like they get the blame too often, when it's a team game, and everyone has to share the load. This team has little business being where they are right now, and wouldn't be there if not for the efforts of our 3 goalies, yet some fans still require a whipping boy.
I'm not sure anyone stops that Krejci shot/move - that was perfect.
Five hole was there for Alfie, and for Daug, too. FIve hole is there on most guys, most nights. Bishop is vulnerable there, Lundqvist too. Fact is, it's hard to be everywhere and NHL shooters are very good quite often. I'm more concerned about short-side high during regulation right now than five-hole in shoot-outs tbh. The five-hole weakness is related more to his ability to read shooters, the low blocker is the technical change in his game.
My issue with this is that people are taking extremes on both sides. The topic creator here isn't really saying anything of what you are implying. He's just saying that Lehner still needs some time to develop (most people would agree). He is still young and has thing he can work on (like any goalie of any age really). The problem with being online is that you can't offer a small criticism to any player because then you are attacking them and hate them and you can't compliment or talk-up a player because then you are over-hyping or in love with them. The truth is the internet is unreasonable both ways and it makes it very hard to have rational discussions.
Implying? I was quite clear.
I can read, I know exactly what he was saying. Lehner needs more development because there has been a few goals that have made him go WTF, therefore he isn't ready to be #1.
Well if that's the criteria, then every goaltender in the NHL need more development.
My issue is with the nitpicking nonsense and over-reaction to a mistake or misplay by any of the young guys, not just Lehner.
So what if Lehner or Bishop have allowed a "soft" goal, so what if Silf, Zibby, Stone, Turris or Smith aren't scoring every game, and so what if Wiercoich or Gryba have made D-zone mistakes?
They are all being put into positions or situations they have never faced before against some of the best talent in the world, they are learning and improving.
IMO that is all that matters, searching for WTF moments or seizing every opportunity to criticize is pointless.
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Originally Posted by Cujomi
The two are not mutually exclusive. Whether it was bad luck or not he should have stopped it. Happens to the best of them, but it is what it is.
Bad luck and bad goal aren't mutually inclusive.
The goal in question Lehner did stop, he had good position and offered no rebound. Unfortunately for him he lost the puck in his gear and it dropped behind him and rolled in.
If you are suggesting he can never allow unfortunate things to happen, then you live in a different world than the rest of us mere mortals.
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Originally Posted by Cujomi
There's a huge difference between trying to hit a pitch with a bat and using your entire body to stop a puck that you are squared up to. This is a bad analogy, and nobody should expect the goalie to stop shots going wide. They should expect the goalie to stop weak shots that they are already square to. Everyone lets in soft goals from time to time (the best goalies just do it much less). That was a soft goal.
Have you ever tried to do either at the NHL or MBL level, or any level for that matter?
Three of the Sens three goaltenders are stopping the puck at a rate fans of any NHL team would be ecstatic over, yet Sens fans want to fixate on the one or two that slip past.
People just need to accept the world isn't perfect and **** happens.
I've been watching Lehner for three years now, two words, five hole. He needs to fix it.
Watch the shootout again last night, he knows it's a weakness. He got destroyed five hole in the last shootout he was in, and what did the Bruins do, five hole. The book is out on Lehner. He put his stick down on Marchand and got lucky, then he goes down early on Krejci and he goes shelf. This isn't rocket science to notice.
Five hole is always going to be a problem for tall goaltenders, specially when forced to move laterally. Have you not noticed where most shots go through Bishop?
Breakaways and shootouts are a crap shoot, it has more to do with guessing right than skill.
If you are quite clear then you are quite clearly putting words and inferences in other peoples' posts/mouths.
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I can read, I know exactly what he was saying. Lehner needs more development because there has been a few goals that have made him go WTF, therefore he isn't ready to be #1.
Actually, what he clearly and implicitly stated is that he doesn't think that Lehner is ready to be our number 1 and that Anderson is doing the job better. Is part 1 true? Probably, mostly because we have Anderson.
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My issue is with the nitpicking nonsense and over-reaction to a mistake or misplay by any of the young guys, not just Lehner.
In what way is it overreacting to want our #1 goalie back and to say that Lehner needs more seasoning? Or to point out that he has let in a few bad goals that even he likely would tell you he should have saved? It sounds pretty reasonable to me.
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IMO that is all that matters, searching for WTF moments or seizing every opportunity to criticize is pointless.
The world is full of rainbows and butterflies. Nobody ever does anything wrong they are always just going through growing pains. Or, and here's a craaaaazy thought, we can appreciate the good and bad in a player and not be personally attacking them or hoping that they fail.
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Bad luck and bad goal aren't mutually inclusive.
If that what I said? This statement doesn't seem relevant at all to any discussion here.
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The goal in question Lehner did stop, he had good position and offered no rebound. Unfortunately for him he lost the puck in his gear and it dropped behind him and rolled in.
Unfortunately for Rask he didn't get his glove up in time to stop Turris' shot. I guess you can just blame every goal on bad luck where they should have been doing something or could have been doing something to stop it. He left an opening for the puck to go through and it did. Call it whatever you want; it was preventable on his part.
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If you are suggesting he can never allow unfortunate things to happen, then you live in a different world than the rest of us mere mortals.
Again...I don't see anywhere where I suggested or said anything of the sort.
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Have you ever tried to do either at the NHL or MBL level, or any level for that matter?
Yes.
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Three of the Sens three goaltenders are stopping the puck at a rate fans of any NHL team would be ecstatic over, yet Sens fans want to fixate on the one or two that slip past.
I've seen a ton of topics and praise towards all of our goalies this year. I think the problem is the hyper-sensitive fans that think our team is perfect and anything negative said is a holy war started simply to tear down their self esteem and break them as human beings.
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People just need to accept the world isn't perfect and **** happens.
I've seen a ton of topics and praise towards all of our goalies this year. I think the problem is the hyper-sensitive fans that think our team is perfect and anything negative said is a holy war started simply to tear down their self esteem and break them as human beings.
Hmmm...[/QUOTE]
This. Lehner is awesome already , everyone agrees with that but i think the point that is trying to be made is he needs a bit more experience and his 5hole will improve and let in fewer questionable goals. He is one of the best pure athletes at the goalie position so his ceiling is high , we all just want him to reach it some of just think it s better for him to be a #1 in the nhl or a #2 in the nhl or a #1 in the Ahl to fast track the process. BUT since non of us have a say in where he plays or how much lets just hope the sens brass make the right decision.
If you are quite clear then you are quite clearly putting words and inferences in other peoples' posts/mouths.
Actually, what he clearly and implicitly stated was, "Lehner is a great goalie don't get me wrong, and I think he's going to be a great starter in the future. Hopefully for us. However, he seems to have too many moments that make me go WTF that makes me believe he's not quite ready to be our number 1. Lehner doesn't seem to make timely saves like Andy does for us. Lehner sucks in the shootout. Falls for everything. Whether you like it or not, the shootout is here to stay and is a part of the game."
If all you gleaned from that, "what he clearly and implicitly stated is that he doesn't think that Lehner is ready to be our number 1 and that Anderson is doing the job better" there is no more to say.
Anderson is the number one goalie in the NHL this year, therefore he is obviously the best choice. However, if one wants to praise Anderson, surely there must be a better way than hiding it in a thread Titled Thoughts on Lehner.
This thread was about Lehner, not Anderson, right?
Actually, what he clearly and implicitly stated was, "Lehner is a great goalie don't get me wrong, and I think he's going to be a great starter in the future. Hopefully for us. However, he seems to have too many moments that make me go WTF that makes me believe he's not quite ready to be our number 1. Lehner doesn't seem to make timely saves like Andy does for us. Lehner sucks in the shootout. Falls for everything. Whether you like it or not, the shootout is here to stay and is a part of the game."
If all you gleaned from that, "what he clearly and implicitly stated is that he doesn't think that Lehner is ready to be our number 1 and that Anderson is doing the job better" there is no more to say.
I've re-bolded the same statement you just read, and instead of trying to look at it as an attack on our player I've looked at it as constructive criticism towards a young player on our team.
Actually, what he clearly and implicitly stated was, "Lehner is a great goalie don't get me wrong, and I think he's going to be a great starter in the future. Hopefully for us. However, he seems to have too many moments that make me go WTF that makes me believe he's not quite ready to be our number 1. Lehner doesn't seem to make timely saves like Andy does for us. Lehner sucks in the shootout. Falls for everything. Whether you like it or not, the shootout is here to stay and is a part of the game."
If all you gleaned from that, "what he clearly and implicitly stated is that he doesn't think that Lehner is ready to be our number 1 and that Anderson is doing the job better" there is no more to say.
Anderson is the number one goalie in the NHL this year, therefore he is obviously the best choice. However, if one wants to praise Anderson, surely there must be a better way than hiding it in a thread Titled Thoughts on Lehner.
This thread was about Lehner, not Anderson, right?
Holy batman. Did not expect this thread to stir up this much controversy.
You changed what I said in a previous post interchanging "too" with "few". A few and too many is different and I think most people on here would agree. Every goalie in history lets in a few bad goals, but the truly great goalies do not let in many of these.
It seems as if whenever anything bad is said about Lehner people on this board stir into a frenzy. I never indicated, implied, stated, or said that Lehner was a bad goalie and that we lost the game last night because of him. This would be farthest from the truth. I simply said he currently lets in TOO many bad goals. He needs more development. I also said that he needs to work on the shootout.
I don't think anybody on this board would disagree that he needs more development, and the fact that some of you got your panties twisted over this is insane.
Far few moments are being used to make conclusions. Please explain why a handful of "wtf" goals that he's given up are different than those that any other goalie gives up at times in a season?
Timely saves? Lehner has made plenty of timely saves. Sucks in the shootout? Many top goalies suck at shootouts. You ignore save % because Andy's is better? Wtf? Lehner's save % has been outstanding. I'd understand valid criticism but found little.
Holy batman. Did not expect this thread to stir up this much controversy.
You changed what I said in a previous post interchanging "too" with "few". A few and too many is different and I think most people on here would agree. Every goalie in history lets in a few bad goals, but the truly great goalies do not let in many of these.
It seems as if whenever anything bad is said about Lehner people on this board stir into a frenzy. I never indicated, implied, stated, or said that Lehner was a bad goalie and that we lost the game last night because of him. This would be farthest from the truth. I simply said he currently lets in TOO many bad goals. He needs more development. I also said that he needs to work on the shootout.
I don't think anybody on this board would disagree that he needs more development, and the fact that some of you got your panties twisted over this is insane.
Suggest you read your post again, I just copied and pasted.
Suggest you read your post again, I just copied and pasted.
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe
I can read, I know exactly what he was saying. Lehner needs more development because there has been a few goals that have made him go WTF, therefore he isn't ready to be #1.
Far few moments are being used to make conclusions. Please explain why a handful of "wtf" goals that he's given up are different than those that any other goalie gives up at times in a season?
Timely saves? Lehner has made plenty of timely saves. Sucks in the shootout? Many top goalies suck at shootouts. You ignore save % because Andy's is better? Wtf? Lehner's save % has been outstanding. I'd understand valid criticism but found little.
I never ignored save percentage. Actually in my OP I clearly stated he had a good save percentage. You're one of those people who gets mad because Lehner needs some more development. Don't know why some of you are getting mad over this.
I never ignored save percentage. Actually in my OP I clearly stated he had a good save percentage. You're one of those people who gets mad because Lehner needs some more development.
You didn't answer why his 'wtf' goals are different. Stop being defensive calling people Lehner defenders.
Not that this will happen to Lehner, but a lot of goalies never solve an underlying issue and that prevents them from making the next step. The NHL is littered with the bodies of goalies with excellent pedigrees that struggle to take that leap forward into a consistent starter.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Case in point, Marc Andre Fleury. He still lets in stinkers every now and again. But I'm not about to jump all over Lehner. I think he's prone to the odd bad goal at the moment, but his his sheer competitiveness (not to mention his age) makes me very hopeful about his continuing development.
17 GP in the NHL and only acting as our starter because Andy went down. I don't think it's enough time for us to be concerned about his development or his potential.
I've re-bolded the same statement you just read, and instead of trying to look at it as an attack on our player I've looked at it as constructive criticism towards a young player on our team.
If constructive means saying he sucks at something or causes too many WTF moments, then you right.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Case in point, Marc Andre Fleury. He still lets in stinkers every now and again. But I'm not about to jump all over Lehner. I think he's prone to the odd bad goal at the moment, but his his sheer competitiveness (not to mention his age) makes me very hopeful about his continuing development.
17 GP in the NHL and only acting as our starter because Andy went down. I don't think it's enough time for us to be concerned about his development or his potential.
Very much agree.
Anyone expecting Lehner or Bishop to be as good as Anderson, considering the year Andy was having, was being overly optimistic or just naive.
Anderson was having a Vezina year and possibly even in the running for the Hart prior to his injury.
Bishop and Lehner aren't at Andy's level yet, but they are providing better goaltending than many teams are getting from their number 1s, which is a very encouraging sign.
I'd be interested to know what you people think of Markstrom or Lindback, Lehner's giant Swedish goalie peers. Many think Markstrom is the better prospect between he and Lehner.
I'd be interested to know what you people think of Markstrom or Lindback, Lehner's giant Swedish goalie peers. Many think Markstrom is the better prospect between he and Lehner.
i think I'd rather have Markstrom than Lehner, although it's really close.
