HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Armchair GM Thread - XXXV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-16-2013, 06:03 PM
  #826
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 18,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amused To Death View Post
Raymond is a UFA though, with Goc signed to another cheap year, and Florida is weak in the middle with Weiss out. I think we would have to include a pivot or a bit of an overpayment if we were to get Goc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Yeah that does nothing for Florida. I don't think they'd trade any of those three pieces for Raymond + Sweatt, let alone two of them.


FLA is not weak down the middle. They will be graduating Bjugstad next year. They've already brought up Shore, and I have a feeling they'll re-sign Weiss. That's Bjugstad-(maybe)Huberdeau-Weiss-Shore-Goc-Matthias-Smithson down the middle. Centre ice will fast become a surplus position for them.

To think Raymond does nothing for a team as goal-starved at FLA can often be, is faulty logic indeed. And what is Howden that is more valuable than Raymond? Prospects are severely overrated here I think.


I will revise the offer:

Raymond + Sweatt for Goc + Smithson

(A 2nd line LW + low end prospect for a 3C + 4C) The premise being that Goc alone is not enough for Raymond. Even a pending UFA Raymond which they could easily re-sign (something the deal is dependent upon).

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 06:06 PM
  #827
K2B
dim jim
 
K2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: United States
Posts: 48,262
vCash: 50
Bjugstad is gonna be a stud mark my words. Wish we could have moved up in the draft and acquired him instead of trading the pick for Ballard. But hey it's easy for me to say that now.

K2B is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 06:15 PM
  #828
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 18,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The premise being that Goc alone is not enough for Raymond.
I would say the Canucks need Goc more than the Panthers need Raymond. Because of this, a Raymond for Goc swap seems about right. Goc having an extra year on his contract and being a centre also makes up for the fact Raymond is probably the better player.

If the Canucks don't intend on re-signing Raymond then this would be a smart deal for Gillis to make IMO. If another deal presents itself for a 2nd/3rd line centre there is still cap space to get it done. Just move Goc down to the 4th line. It's a big advantage not having any lines that need to be sheltered come playoff time.

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 06:28 PM
  #829
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
To think Raymond does nothing for a team as goal-starved at FLA can often be, is faulty logic indeed. And what is Howden that is more valuable than Raymond? Prospects are severely overrated here I think.
To think the last place team in the league would be interested in trading away a good prospect for 1.5 months of Raymond is also faulty logic.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 06:32 PM
  #830
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 18,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
To think the last place team in the league would be interested in trading away a good prospect for 1.5 months of Raymond is also faulty logic.

For your benefit:


Quote:
(A 2nd line LW + low end prospect for a 3C + 4C) The premise being that Goc alone is not enough for Raymond. Even a pending UFA Raymond which they could easily re-sign (something the deal is dependent upon).
The point is that FLA has first crack at signing him, and don't compete with other teams in FA to get him. Were they to do so, they would be unlikely to land him. The extra piece to Goc would could be conditional to that, but Goc is not enough, even for an unsigned Raymond --> that can still be re-signed by FLA. I'd do Raymond+ for Goc and a conditional+ based on MayRay re-signing.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 06:51 PM
  #831
keslerburrows
Registered User
 
keslerburrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vernon, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,355
vCash: 500
I hope we get Roy. That'd do wonders for this team.

keslerburrows is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:01 PM
  #832
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
For your benefit:




The point is that FLA has first crack at signing him, and don't compete with other teams in FA to get him. Were they to do so, they would be unlikely to land him. The extra piece to Goc would could be conditional to that, but Goc is not enough, even for an unsigned Raymond --> that can still be re-signed by FLA. I'd do Raymond+ for Goc and a conditional+ based on MayRay re-signing.
I just don't think Florida has any interest in Raymond. Just giving my opinion on the proposal, don't let it stop you from speculating.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:06 PM
  #833
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I will revise the offer:

Raymond + Sweatt for Goc + Smithson

(A 2nd line LW + low end prospect for a 3C + 4C) The premise being that Goc alone is not enough for Raymond. Even a pending UFA Raymond which they could easily re-sign (something the deal is dependent upon).
I really don't understand all of the Marcel Goc talk that seems to be surrounding the Canucks. He's about exactly the type of guy that we should avoid. He's a floater, has almost zero playoff experience, and is basically just a body who doesn't do anything particularly well.

Mason Raymond is a useful player that the Canucks should've tried to sign to a long-term deal in the off-season. I said many times on Canucks.com that I'd rather have him than David Booth, and I stand by that to this day. Now, due to our GM lacking any sort of foresight and an understanding of market principles, Raymond's almost surely going to walk and cash in somewhere else. Really unfortunate.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:28 PM
  #834
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 18,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I just don't think Florida has any interest in Raymond. Just giving my opinion on the proposal, don't let it stop you from speculating.

The speculation is based on a lack of scoring for FLA. In that vain, how can Raymond be unnecessary to them?

I seem to also recall Tallon's interest in Raymond and/or Samuelsson a while back, prior the Booth deal. I wonder if anyone remembers that? He's been on the radar there for a while.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:34 PM
  #835
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 18,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
I really don't understand all of the Marcel Goc talk that seems to be surrounding the Canucks. He's about exactly the type of guy that we should avoid. He's a floater, has almost zero playoff experience, and is basically just a body who doesn't do anything particularly well.

Mason Raymond is a useful player that the Canucks should've tried to sign to a long-term deal in the off-season. I said many times on Canucks.com that I'd rather have him than David Booth, and I stand by that to this day. Now, due to our GM lacking any sort of foresight and an understanding of market principles, Raymond's almost surely going to walk and cash in somewhere else. Really unfortunate.

First, completely disagree with your second paragraph. There's so much wrong there that I'm not sure if breaking it down is even worth it. I will say though that they could not commit long-term to Raymond considering the type of season he had. Not prudent at all.

Next, this is the first time I've seen Goc referred to as a "floater". He's a grinding player that is hard to play against over 200ft. Something many of the options here do not represent. He's a full 200 foot player. Good on the draw, and can be hard matched against the opposition's best players. Essentially, he's another Malhotra with a bit more offense. That's a very valuable player to have.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:41 PM
  #836
Al Swearengen
Smug Nation National
 
Al Swearengen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,329
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
I really don't understand all of the Marcel Goc talk that seems to be surrounding the Canucks. He's about exactly the type of guy that we should avoid. He's a floater, has almost zero playoff experience, and is basically just a body who doesn't do anything particularly well.

Mason Raymond is a useful player that the Canucks should've tried to sign to a long-term deal in the off-season. I said many times on Canucks.com that I'd rather have him than David Booth, and I stand by that to this day. Now, due to our GM lacking any sort of foresight and an understanding of market principles, Raymond's almost surely going to walk and cash in somewhere else. Really unfortunate.
First - you're right about Mason Raymond. We should try to keep him. I'd be happy to be keep paying him what he's making or a little more to give us a 2nd line fill-in/3rd line stud/valuable PKer/2nd-line PP option. Him going to free agency makes me nervous and I think its imperative that Gillis gets him resigned before Raymond gets a good look at his options.

Second - I think you're wrong about Goc. You say "floater", but I see a guy with a very high hockey IQ who makes basically no mistakes. I think if you ask Preds fans, they'll tell you he is missed, especially at 1.7m for another season after this one. Plus if Goc was playing with some combination of Raymond, Higgins and Hansen, that would represent the best talent he's ever had at his wings.

Al Swearengen is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:43 PM
  #837
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The speculation is based on a lack of scoring for FLA. In that vain, how can Raymond be unnecessary to them?

I seem to also recall Tallon's interest in Raymond and/or Samuelsson a while back, prior the Booth deal. I wonder if anyone remembers that? He's been on the radar there for a while.
Because even if they pick up Crosby they aren't making the playoffs this year. They're 10 points out with 20 games left and have to leapfrog 7 teams. Like I said, I just don't think they're interested in adding UFA's.

Unless that conditional pick is a 1st, Goc is worth more to them than a conditional 2014 pick and negotiating rights to Raymond. IMO they'd rather trade him for a guaranteed 2013 2nd + average prospect/late pick than trade for your deal.

If you want to propose a trade with Raymond leaving and Goc coming in it would make more sense to send Raymond to a contender in a three-way deal.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:49 PM
  #838
me2
Team Ben Anti-Tank 0
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Team Tank 1
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 27,845
vCash: 93
I'd love Goc as our 4C. $1.7m per year for this year and next is barely more than Lappy, and he can legitimately move up if there at injuries. He's better than that but at that price perfect for it.

me2 is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:50 PM
  #839
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
First, completely disagree with your second paragraph. There's so much wrong there that I'm not sure if breaking it down is even worth it. I will say though that they could not commit long-term to Raymond considering the type of season he had. Not prudent at all.

Next, this is the first time I've seen Goc referred to as a "floater". He's a grinding player that is hard to play against over 200ft. Something many of the options here do not represent. He's a full 200 foot player. Good on the draw, and can be hard matched against the opposition's best players. Essentially, he's another Malhotra with a bit more offense. That's a very valuable player to have.
The time to invest in guys is when their value is low, not when it's high. If you invest in guys when they're high, you suddenly find yourself giving 6-year contracts to 4th defencemen like Garrison. The smart, "bold" move would've been for Mike to lock down Raymond for a few years, at roughly the cap hit that he's got now, maybe a little higher. 3 years, $9M, for example. He would've looked very smart in doing so, much like he looked very smart in giving Burrows 4 years and $8M back in 2008.

As for Goc, he's not going to get points, he's not going to be physical. He's not a grizzled vet with a lot of playoff experience. He's just a body. He'd probably add roughly as much value as Pahlsson did last year, which was minimal.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 07:54 PM
  #840
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
First - you're right about Mason Raymond. We should try to keep him. I'd be happy to be keep paying him what he's making or a little more to give us a 2nd line fill-in/3rd line stud/valuable PKer/2nd-line PP option. Him going to free agency makes me nervous and I think its imperative that Gillis gets him resigned before Raymond gets a good look at his options.
Good luck with that. There will be a lot of interest in Mason Raymond on July 1st, who should be just about entering his prime 3 - 4 years.

It wouldn't surprise me to see him even double his salary. He would be a fool to not test the market.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:00 PM
  #841
timw33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,798
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Good luck with that. There will be a lot of interest in Mason Raymond on July 1st, who should be just about entering his prime 3 - 4 years.

It wouldn't surprise me to see him even double his salary. He would be a fool to not test the market.
I agree, if Raymond test's the market he can probably get 4M+ from someone.

timw33 is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:05 PM
  #842
LiquidSnake*
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,513
vCash: 500
Ron Maclean and Friedman just said the Canucks and Rangers had discussions about Gaborik but nothing from it.

LiquidSnake* is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:06 PM
  #843
MajorCanuck
Cup Please
 
MajorCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Ron Maclean and Friedman just said the Canucks and Rangers had discussions about Gaborik but nothing from it.
ya no thanks

MajorCanuck is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:07 PM
  #844
Finkle is Einhorn
Registered User
 
Finkle is Einhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Ron Maclean and Friedman just said the Canucks and Rangers had discussions about Gaborik but nothing from it.
Makes sense. He's got that beautiful house in West Van just sitting there empty.

Finkle is Einhorn is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #845
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Good luck with that. There will be a lot of interest in Mason Raymond on July 1st, who should be just about entering his prime 3 - 4 years.

It wouldn't surprise me to see him even double his salary. He would be a fool to not test the market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
I agree, if Raymond test's the market he can probably get 4M+ from someone.
Doubt it.

Market value for average players should be dropping.

No one will pay 4+ Million for a tweener.

If we want to re-sign him he will re-sign here for under 3.5

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:12 PM
  #846
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Ron Maclean and Friedman just said the Canucks and Rangers had discussions about Gaborik but nothing from it.
Will cost the moon and contract is a gigantic handcuff for us. No thanks.

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:12 PM
  #847
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Ron Maclean and Friedman just said the Canucks and Rangers had discussions about Gaborik but nothing from it.
Interesting. Great idea for the Canucks, IMO. Fills an obvious need.

But I think a guy like Gaborik would actually attract a lot of interest around the league. Only 1 year left on his deal after this one. Not sure what we have that the Rangers would want.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:14 PM
  #848
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Ron Maclean and Friedman just said the Canucks and Rangers had discussions about Gaborik but nothing from it.
Not that I claim to be an expert on the Rangers or anything but it seems they need a puck moving defenseman on that squad. Their blueline is more than decent defensively but not all that great offensively. An imbalance seems to be there.

Maybe they want Ballard.

Barney Gumble is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:15 PM
  #849
thepuckmonster
Global Moderator
Professional Winner.
 
thepuckmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,604
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Not that I claim to be an expert on the Rangers or anything but it seems they need a puck moving defenseman on that squad. Their blueline is more than decent defensively but not all that great offensively. An imbalance seems to be there.

Maybe they want Ballard.
Del Zotto is quite good at moving the puck usually, and McDonagh as well.

Torts system is just ****y all over.

thepuckmonster is offline  
Old
03-16-2013, 08:17 PM
  #850
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 22,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Del Zotto is quite good at moving the puck usually, and McDonagh as well.

Torts system is just ****y all over.
They're allright I suppose, but IMHO, they need someone more dynamic back there.

Barney Gumble is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.