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The Armchair GM Thread - XXXV

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:44 PM
  #201
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by AlphaMale View Post
Don't some of you think in hindsight that the money that is tied up in paying Ballard and Booths contracts would of been better spent on one elite winger like Gaborik, Kovalchuck, Parise ect when they were FA. You dont need a 4+ million D-man playing on your 3rd pairing on your backend. A 500K - 1Mil scrub can do that. I know a team needs depth to win a Stanley Cup but this team is lacking superstar power and you can't win a cup paying a bunch of cookie cutter guys 4 million a year.
They could've easily signed one of those guys and then moved Ballard or Booth to make the cap work. None of them wanted to come here. It's like some of you think that every FA wants to come to Vancouver so badly that all it takes is for us to make them an offer.

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03-12-2013, 02:45 PM
  #202
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Maybe if they trade us back some depth D that's better than Alberts and Barker, I would consider it.
AV/Bowness doesn't think those are depth guys though.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:45 PM
  #203
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Instead of giving up a big asset for Goc, how about something like this?

Schneider + Rodin + Connauton

for

Nate Thompson, Brett Connolly, Radko Gudas, 1st round pick

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
They could've easily signed one of those guys and then moved Ballard or Booth to make the cap work. None of them wanted to come here. It's like some of you think that every FA wants to come to Vancouver so badly that all it takes is for us to make them an offer.
How do you know they would not have signed with Vancouver if Gilles beat the competitions offer? I think the Canucks never even sent offers to their agents or sent laughable offers.

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03-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Sure this is the Canucks' board, but let's try to have some sense of objectivity. A thirty goal scorer, who was a finalist for the rookie of the year, for Ballard. And a #1 center for a guy who is barely staying in the league (and would most likely be in the minors if GMMG does not want to save face). Two very young and developing star players for what exactly? Okay, those trades have worked out just fine for Vancouver. Really??
let's be honest though, Hodgson is a #1 centre like Bozak is a #1 centre, they may play the position but thy are not what the position suggests. He is a #2/#3 guy on almost every other team.

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03-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #206
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Kris versteeg intrigues me. Playmaking winger. Could work well with kesler. Can play pp, has won a cup.

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03-12-2013, 02:49 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by AlphaMale View Post
How do you know they would not have signed with Vancouver if Gilles beat the competitions offer? I think the Canucks never even sent offers to their agents or sent laughable offers.
How do you know he didn't beat the competitions' offer? What I do know is that Vancouver has never been able to attract highly prized FAs and while that has improved recently, they're not going to compete with NY and LA as destinations.

Parise wanted to play back home and only signed there after making sure that Suter was also going to. That one is by far the least likely.

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03-12-2013, 02:49 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Sure this is the Canucks' board, but let's try to have some sense of objectivity. A thirty goal scorer, who was a finalist for the rookie of the year, for Ballard. And a #1 center for a guy who is barely staying in the league (and would most likely be in the minors if GMMG does not want to save face). Two very young and developing star players for what exactly? Okay, those trades have worked out just fine for Vancouver. Really??


Objectivity requires a long-term view. Are you sure you are employing one?

Grabner is so up and down in his career that as soon as NYI gets some high end prospects like Nino and Nelson on the roster, his job will be in jeopardy IMO. He is an unstable NHL asset in my view.

The Hodgson/Kassian deal won't have a clear split in value until both players mature and become what they will be long-term. Way too early to say otherwise. But it seems that it hasn't stopped you from calling the deal on the information so far...

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03-12-2013, 02:49 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by AlphaMale View Post
Don't some of you think in hindsight that the money that is tied up in paying Ballard and Booths contracts would of been better spent on one elite winger like Gaborik, Kovalchuck, Parise ect when they were FA. You dont need a 4+ million D-man playing on your 3rd pairing on your backend. A 500K - 1Mil scrub can do that. I know a team needs depth to win a Stanley Cup but this team is lacking superstar power and you can't win a cup paying a bunch of cookie cutter guys 4 million a year.
You can't compel guys to sign with your team. Much like Garrison and Hamhuis, Parise was pretty much set on playing close to home so Vancouver was never an option; Kovalchuk was never even a UFA; and Gaborik was always a long shot, even if you don't account for the fact that the Canucks simply didn't have the cap space in 09-10 to give Gaborik that kind of money and actually fill out the team.

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03-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
let's be honest though, Hodgson is a #1 centre like Bozak is a #1 centre, they may play the position but thy are not what the position suggests. He is a #2/#3 guy on almost every other team.
I disagree with this completely. Hodgson has 21 points this year, none of which came on the PP. Meanwhile Bozak only has 14 (5 of which came on the PP). In fact, if I see this correctly, Cody Hodgson is currently 6th in the NHL in ES points this season. I don't see how he's only a #2/#3 guy on almost every team in the league.

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03-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
You can't compel guys to sign with your team. Much like Garrison and Hamhuis, Parise was pretty much set on playing close to home so Vancouver was never an option; Kovalchuk was never even a UFA; and Gaborik was always a long shot, even if you don't account for the fact that the Canucks simply didn't have the cap space in 09-10 to give Gaborik that kind of money and actually fill out the team.
Kovalchuk was a UFA but he also wanted to stay in NJ or go to LA, he only considered those two places and that was widely reported at the time. In fact, it was even speculated that he wasn't even considering LA and was just milking the Devils.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Instead of giving up a big asset for Goc, how about something like this?

Schneider + Rodin + Connauton

for

Nate Thompson, Brett Connolly, Radko Gudas, 1st round pick


Nah, I like Schneider here. Replace with Luongo. But I doubt Stevie Y deals for either... He's hitched his wagon to Lindback.

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03-12-2013, 02:54 PM
  #213
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There's a Hodgson thread. Take it there if you want to have that discussion. Further Hodgson posts will be deleted.

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03-12-2013, 02:54 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
You can't compel guys to sign with your team. Much like Garrison and Hamhuis, Parise was pretty much set on playing close to home so Vancouver was never an option; Kovalchuk was never even a UFA; and Gaborik was always a long shot, even if you don't account for the fact that the Canucks simply didn't have the cap space in 09-10 to give Gaborik that kind of money and actually fill out the team.
Kovalchuk was a UFA, I'm pretty sure of it.

He didn't sign until late in the summer after the Devils acquired him. I seem to recall LA having offers on the table for him. Signed on July 19th or 20th as per link below.

Doesn't dismiss your real point about not wanting to come here, but I just think that you mis-remembered what happened.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=5392170

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Hmmm interesting. We know we're likely to lose Raymond at the end of the year, and Goc is still signed for one more year. So take the downgrade and get a fit for your roster right now... maybe have them throw in a pick to even out?
I'd try to obtain him through some other means, though I'm not sure for what. But then again, I just also think Raymond could be re-signed (barring a disastrous playoffs or something) at a decent price. Overall though the goal should still be to acquire as many good possession players as possible IMO.

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03-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Nah, I like Schneider here. Replace with Luongo. But I doubt Stevie Y deals for either... He's hitched his wagon to Lindback.
How hitched is he to Lindback? Lindback has been an utter disaster in Tampa. They have a good team that should be contending for the Cup but are held back by goaltending. I wouldn't move Luongo anymore as I believe he's our best goalie and I don't think Schneider will reach the level that Luongo is at right now. This deal also gives us some very good young prospects (Connolly plus whoever we end up with using Tampa's pick) for the future.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:59 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Kovalchuk was a UFA but he also wanted to stay in NJ or go to LA, he only considered those two places and that was widely reported at the time. In fact, it was even speculated that he wasn't even considering LA and was just milking the Devils.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Kovalchuk was a UFA, I'm pretty sure of it.

He didn't sign until late in the summer after the Devils acquired him. I seem to recall LA having offers on the table for him. Signed on July 19th or 20th as per link below.

Doesn't dismiss your real point about not wanting to come here, but I just think that you mis-remembered what happened.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=5392170
Yeah, I forgot about that.

Though I wouldn't even want him at his current contract even if he did want to sign with the Canucks. The Devils already lost a 1st round pick over the matter and will be getting a nice $27M cap penalty when he retires.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:01 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
I'd try to obtain him through some other means, though I'm not sure for what. But then again, I just also think Raymond could be re-signed (barring a disastrous playoffs or something) at a decent price. Overall though the goal should still be to acquire as many good possession players as possible IMO.

Well if you can re-sign him, then yeah it changes things. I don't want him walking for nothing though.

I agree with the goal, but with Raymond set to leave (odds are), I'd rather have a somewhat lesser possession player, playing a position we need, than nothing at all at the end of the year.


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How hitched is he to Lindback? Lindback has been an utter disaster in Tampa. They have a good team that should be contending for the Cup but are held back by goaltending. I wouldn't move Luongo anymore as I believe he's our best goalie and I don't think Schneider will reach the level that Luongo is at right now. This deal also gives us some very good young prospects (Connolly plus whoever we end up with using Tampa's pick) for the future.

Hitched enough that he is on the precipice to sinking an entire season on Lindback's play. That much.

Still move Luongo in any deal. He wants out, he gets out. Beyond that, I won't discuss him in this thread. If you want to continue, take it over to the Lu thread and I will happily oblige you.

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03-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Well if you can re-sign him, then yeah it changes things. I don't want him walking for nothing though.

I agree with the goal, but with Raymond set to leave (odds are), I'd rather have a somewhat lesser possession player, playing a position we need, than nothing at all at the end of the year.





Hitched enough that he is on the precipice to sinking an entire season on Lindback's play. That much.

Still move Luongo in any deal. He wants out, he gets out. Beyond that, I won't discuss him in this thread. If you want to continue, take it over to the Lu thread and I will happily oblige you.
I disagree that Yzerman will not seek an upgrade to their goaltending position. I also feel if we can move an asset for what will be a top 10 draft pick, and their best prospect in Brett Connolly it makes the most sense for this team going forward. We have a total of zero potential top line prospects in our organization, and adding someone like Connolly and possibly Monahan at the draft would be absolutely huge for this organizations continued success. I also like Radko Gudas as a RH defenseman who hits like a truck, is very mean, and would fill in very nicely on our bottom pairing.

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03-12-2013, 03:08 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Well if you can re-sign him, then yeah it changes things. I don't want him walking for nothing though.

I agree with the goal, but with Raymond set to leave (odds are), I'd rather have a somewhat lesser possession player, playing a position we need, than nothing at all at the end of the year.
What would you put those odds at, actually? I know there's the shrinking cap and all, but I'm trying to get a sense of what the probability of him staying at, say, 3M per is.

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03-12-2013, 03:24 PM
  #221
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@taj1944: Bobby Mac said Canucks are willing to give up future pieces to win now. As long as it's not their top prospects. Willing to give up picks.
This actually makes me happy, we're not just going to add a bottom 6 player for a 3rd/4th round pick like in past years, which is good since we need much more than a mediocre player to fix this team.

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03-12-2013, 03:34 PM
  #222
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I'm still not convinced that adding another top 6 forward makes us a cup fav again so long as we're this predictable in transition. That makes me very hesitant about giving up a first for a pure rental.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:42 PM
  #223
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I disagree that Yzerman will not seek an upgrade to their goaltending position. I also feel if we can move an asset for what will be a top 10 draft pick, and their best prospect in Brett Connolly it makes the most sense for this team going forward. We have a total of zero potential top line prospects in our organization, and adding someone like Connolly and possibly Monahan at the draft would be absolutely huge for this organizations continued success. I also like Radko Gudas as a RH defenseman who hits like a truck, is very mean, and would fill in very nicely on our bottom pairing.

Considering Yzerman has already pretty much tanked TBay's season by running with Lindback, I can't agree with you (surprise). There's what a GM should do, and what a GM will do. I think Yzerman will stick to his "plan".


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What would you put those odds at, actually? I know there's the shrinking cap and all, but I'm trying to get a sense of what the probability of him staying at, say, 3M per is.

I want to say 80% that Raymond is gone because he wont take a 3m per contract. I hope he does, but I doubt it. There's also the issue about roster balance when you pay Raymond 3m. Do the Canucks also sign Higgins? If so, then they have 3 top6 LWers that they can't utilize fully due to roster slots. Kassian-Hansen-Burrows likely stay on the RW. So that leaves one spot, and pushing Kassian to the 4th line, to find that 3rd LWer some ice.

It also ensures the 3C position will be a "budget" fill next year.

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03-12-2013, 03:44 PM
  #224
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I said before that this team was one top 6 player and one top 4 defenseman away from being a serious Cup contender. I still think that's true, although personnel isn't going to fix the godawful power play.

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03-12-2013, 03:50 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I want to say 80% that Raymond is gone because he wont take a 3m per contract. I hope he does, but I doubt it. There's also the issue about roster balance when you pay Raymond 3m. Do the Canucks also sign Higgins? If so, then they have 3 top6 LWers that they can't utilize fully due to roster slots. Kassian-Hansen-Burrows likely stay on the RW. So that leaves one spot, and pushing Kassian to the 4th line, to find that 3rd LWer some ice.

It also ensures the 3C position will be a "budget" fill next year.
Given the Canucks roster right now, I'd rather pay one elite player 6 million than have Raymond + Higgins making anything close to that.

Although if we could just ditch Booth it would all be a little easier.

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