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Leafs @ Jets | Tues March 12 | 7PM CST |Confirmed Post 239: Noel Sucks Halls Lozenges

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:19 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Hockey Crazy View Post
Sorry, but I had to reply to this...

Frattin has been at an unsustainable pace, but has been hurt for a good chunk.
Fraser has what, 1 goal?
Franson has played very well and earned his point totals.
Komi has been a healthy scratch almost the entire year.
Kadri has been our best player... he has run hot, but will still contribute a good number of pts.
McClement and McLaren have not had a significant number of goals.

You named a lot of players that are in the bottom half for ice time. As long as our core keeps producing, the Leafs will be OK. Should be a good one tonight... not sure who pulls off the win.
The names of the players don't matter. The Leafs as a team have an unsustainably high shooting percentage.

There are two possible scenarios here:
1) The Leafs regress.
2) it is 1992.

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03-12-2013, 01:22 PM
  #102
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I love Burmi and think he provides a lot even when he isn't scoring but I'm preparing myself for this being his last season in Winnipeg. I think there is a pretty good chance he is gone by the deadline.

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03-12-2013, 01:23 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Listening to Burmi fans talk about how good Burmi is, is sort of like listening to Leafs fans talk about how good the Leafs are.

Ooh, that one is going to sting and rile!
hahah, i liked it. it was a good sting.


Definitly agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't be up in arms over burmi being benched, even though my immediate emotional response is to be.

As long as he responds then we've got no issues.

I also understand noel being harder on burmi, but it involves assuming he's not being hard on burmi because he's young, but because he plays outside the system. As mentioned jokinen hasn't been a savior, but he's left it all on the ice and he plays the system exactly. The onus there is on noel to get him going. If burmi isn't following the system/coaching and isn't producing, then he needs a wakeup call. I believe he is producing (fancy stats/etc) but not at a level that allows him to drift from the system and come out unscathed, which is what seems to have happened.

I think suggestions of trade could be premature, and that its likely a motivation move.

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03-12-2013, 01:24 PM
  #104
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I really would love to nail down what the problem is people have with Burmi. Ignoring these last few games at RW, what is the problem with his game? Other than just saying points please tell me what he does wrong. He hits, he back checks, he seems to me to do most of the little things fairly well.

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03-12-2013, 01:26 PM
  #105
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Interesting I guess if Burmistrov does indeed get benched.

Not that a benching necessarily means that a trade is imminent, but it's obvious that Noel has not been happy with Burmistrov after the first 8-10 games or so (est). Combine that with Dredger's comment about Burmistrov maybe being in play, Lawless's articles about Burmistrov's attitude, and jetkarma's posts about people on the inside not happy with his play and wanting more, and the next month could get interesting.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:26 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
The names of the players don't matter. The Leafs as a team have an unsustainably high shooting percentage.

There are two possible scenarios here:
1) The Leafs regress.
2) it is 1992.
That is a little extreme, don't you think? Might it be possible that we are doing a much better job boxing out the front of the net, resulting in higher than normal save percentages... maybe we have more players driving to the net, getting second chances, resulting in higher shooting percentages? You can't just look at numbers... there is an actual game being played.

The average shooting % this year is 9.42. The Leafs are at 11.09. We rank 4th in the NHL. It's not out of the question that they are able to sustain that.

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03-12-2013, 01:28 PM
  #107
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2nd line of Kane-Antro-Welly

Looks like another solo effort from Kane. Really, which of those two guys will be up with him on the rush? I'm all for having a late man who can get a shot in the slot, but two of them is overkill.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:29 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Why?

Are you referring to the absolutely ineffectual play by someone? Someone who hasn't got the message for 2 years? here or in the AHL?
Two problems with this:

1) Top 6 ineffectual play, not overall ineffectual... He's still within top 7 for ALL results in ALL categories on the team. Is he doing some of the wrong things: signs point out to it by Noel's reactions; should it be corrected by Noel if so: that's his job; Is he being below average for the team: nope.

2) Have no idea why you'd say he wasn't getting it in the AHL. By the way... McCambridge who openly slammed some of his players raved on Burmistrov. He's still 13th on the team for points even without playing since December. It was a team problem not Burmistrov.



But, if Noel has a legit reason to sit out Burmistrov, I fully support his decision.


Last edited by garret9: 03-12-2013 at 01:55 PM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 01:32 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
The names of the players don't matter. The Leafs as a team have an unsustainably high shooting percentage.

There are two possible scenarios here:
1) The Leafs regress.
2) it is 1992.


It works! It works!

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:36 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Crazy View Post
That is a little extreme, don't you think? Might it be possible that we are doing a much better job boxing out the front of the net, resulting in higher than normal save percentages... maybe we have more players driving to the net, getting second chances, resulting in higher shooting percentages? You can't just look at numbers... there is an actual game being played.

The average shooting % this year is 9.42. The Leafs are at 11.09. We rank 4th in the NHL. It's not out of the question that they are able to sustain that.
Quote:
Might it be possible that we are doing a much better job boxing out the front of the net
No because the leafs are allowing more shots against including more shots from in close under Carlyle that they were under Wilson.

Also...

Quote:
Eric T. ‏@BSH_EricT
Wondering why I'm not betting on the Maple Leafs keeping up their 10.3% 5v5 shooting? Here's a stat from the cutting room floor...
Quote:
Eric T. ‏@BSH_EricT
Last year through 25 games, 2 teams had 5v5 sh% as high as TOR is now. BOS (10.4%) went 8.9% rest of way. NYR (10.5%) went 8.1% rest of way.
Quote:
Eric T. ‏@BSH_EricT
League average, by the way, is 8.2%. #Regression
Quote:
Eric T. ‏@BSH_EricT
@elowe11 Only one team in last 5 yrs has been 10.3% after 82 games. Several have been 10.3% after 25...
Quote:
Eric T. ‏@BSH_EricT
@elowe11 ...so it's much more likely that they're just running hot than that they're the best shooters since '09-10 Caps.
I have watched a handful of Leafs games. They get outplayed and outshot, but are being bailed out by puck luck and goaltending. That is what my eyes tell me. That is also what the numbers tell me.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:40 PM
  #111
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Man I love numbers.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:41 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
No because the leafs are allowing more shots against including more shots from in close under Carlyle that they were under Wilson.

Also...
I have watched a handful of Leafs games. They get outplayed and outshot, but are being bailed out by puck luck and goaltending. That is what my eyes tell me. That is also what the numbers tell me.
Pretty sure these stats have been explained 3 times in this thread alone to Leafs fans who refute them.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:41 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Hey guys, hoping for a good game tonight. No disrespect but I had to quote this just to call out some of these assertions...

What about Kessel's ridiclously low SH %? And our 2nd leading scorer from last year (Lupul) missing most of the year and still out? Our best PMD not in the lineup?

And why would you take away goaltending sv% like it's meaningless? This team is very different from last year's team in the way defense is played. There is a structured system in place, and players all have to play responsible defense-first hockey. Most of us saw last year's good start with Wilson as unsustainable, because the run and gun is just too wild a system to maintain. This is not the run and gun team of 2011-12. Also, the PK was a HUGE problem last year and has vastly improved this year, I believe 7th in the league right now.

Cheers.
I wasn't meaning to be disrespectful, but...

* personal shooting percentage (Jets' have 'em too PS) doesn't mean as much as On-Ice Sh% as it shows more if the team is over performing (ie: unsustainable)
* how great is the defensive system if you're the second most out-shot team in the east?
* PK can be dependent on goaltending (as other things) so that's why I remove goaltending; not because I believe it to be meaningless (:S Nashville has thrived off of basically goaltending and 2 Dmen), but because it helps figure out if it's the goalie or the team
* all the factors point out the same way as MIN and TOR did last year... people gave the same excuses to those too...

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:43 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
All the Burmi trolls seem to be in good spirits today

As Hnidy said "It's Burmi's move now how will he respond"?

I have zero issues with the coach putting Alex in the press box if there are issues but keep in mind St Mikael Granlund was just reassigned to the AHL today By the Wild and he was brought along slowly.....as well as Sven The savior in Calgary. Not as easy as it looks in the NHL.
Hey get it right! Mikael Granlund = Finnish Baby Jesus

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:44 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I wasn't meaning to be disrespectful, but...

* personal shooting percentage (Jets' have 'em too PS) doesn't mean as much as On-Ice Sh% as it shows more if the team is over performing (ie: unsustainable)
* how great is the defensive system if you're the second most out-shot team in the east?
* PK can be dependent on goaltending (as other things) so that's why I remove goaltending; not because I believe it to be meaningless (:S Nashville has thrived off of basically goaltending and 2 Dmen), but because it helps figure out if it's the goalie or the team
* all the factors point out the same way as MIN and TOR did last year... people gave the same excuses to those too...
there's an expression about aesthetics, mechanics, reality, and water foul that would accurately sum up this situation....


...can't for the life of me remember what it is though...

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03-12-2013, 01:45 PM
  #116
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Something to do with a duck, right?

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:46 PM
  #117
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Isn't it ironic that Burmistrov might have a problem with the coaches and it's all on him but yet Bogosian had a problem with the coaches in Atlanta and most people blamed that on the coaches and (mis)management.

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03-12-2013, 01:47 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansen Brother View Post
I really would love to nail down what the problem is people have with Burmi. Ignoring these last few games at RW, what is the problem with his game? Other than just saying points please tell me what he does wrong. He hits, he back checks, he seems to me to do most of the little things fairly well.
He makes poor decisions with the puck; often holds onto it when he shouldn't or makes a dangerous pass when he shouldn't. Often cedes puck posession by taking himself directly into an opposition player while dipsy doodling and carrying the puck along the boards and as a result many times just softly gives it away when checked. Is also often out of position; for example, inexplicably veers away from his proper checking lanes when on a 5-on5 backcheck; in other words poor play when he does not have the puck.

Look, he does backcheck and is an asset on pk, but he clearly sometimes freelances within what is intended to be a tightly structured defensive and puck possession system. Coaches frown on that. Strict adherence to systems play team-wide is vital when such parity exists between teams.


Last edited by Gump Hasek: 03-12-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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03-12-2013, 01:48 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I wasn't meaning to be disrespectful, but...

* personal shooting percentage (Jets' have 'em too PS) doesn't mean as much as On-Ice Sh% as it shows more if the team is over performing (ie: unsustainable)
* how great is the defensive system if you're the second most out-shot team in the east?
* PK can be dependent on goaltending (as other things) so that's why I remove goaltending; not because I believe it to be meaningless (:S Nashville has thrived off of basically goaltending and 2 Dmen), but because it helps figure out if it's the goalie or the team
* all the factors point out the same way as MIN and TOR did last year... people gave the same excuses to those too...
They made excuses after too. Blamed it on Bogosian and the loss of PMB.

Can't wait till Toronto blames it on the return of Lupul.

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03-12-2013, 01:57 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
Isn't it ironic that Burmistrov might have a problem with the coaches and it's all on him but yet Bogosian had a problem with the coaches in Atlanta and most people blamed that on the coaches and (mis)management.
I'm more concerned with the attitude towards the vets and leaders on his team than tuning out the coaches.

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03-12-2013, 01:58 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
Isn't it ironic that Burmistrov might have a problem with the coaches and it's all on him but yet Bogosian had a problem with the coaches in Atlanta and most people blamed that on the coaches and (mis)management.
If Burmi does have a problem with the coaching staff, then the parallels are there. We all hope that he turns it around and buys into the system, but it could very well be that a change of coach is needed to bring his game back up, like Bogosian needed. There is still much we don't know about the situation, so this is all speculation.

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03-12-2013, 01:59 PM
  #122
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Too me all signs on Burmi point out to me that it's not:
you're not good and we're losing hope on you

But, more of a:
you are not doing as told and/or we know you can be a lot better than this


EDIT: not saying one is really better than the other... just stating what the signs look like to me

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03-12-2013, 02:03 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Too me all signs on Burmi point out to me that it's not:
you're not good and we're losing hope on you

But, more of a:
you are not doing as told and/or we know you can be a lot better than this
mmhmm.. . even Noels quotes have been directly inline with this reasoning.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:05 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
I'm more concerned with the attitude towards the vets and leaders on his team than tuning out the coaches.
Man, Kane is BARELY starting to get over the hate, and now it's shifting to Burmi?

Tonight is the night we ignite the tailspin for the Leafs, am I right?

Leave McLaren and Orr be. Let them run around like idiots.

Wpg 3 Tor 2

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03-12-2013, 02:06 PM
  #125
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Another addition to the TOR unsustainability comments...

The one thing with a short season, is they could succeed running on it. Unfortunately.
But, I'm going to hope not

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