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Jake Gardiner for a # 1 centre?

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:26 PM
  #101
morrielly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
how was it trolling?
you're the one trying to trade an good AHL defenceman for a #1 center.
A guy suggests spooner, a good AHL player, a highly rated prospect who was the last cut at Bruins camp and is 2 years younger than gardiner.

How is that not a reasonable deal?
you may not want spooner for other reasons, if you are looking for a big center etc. but how is that not a reasonable trade? let alone calling it trolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
If Toronto wasn't in Boston's Division, I'd consider sending Spooner to the Leafs for one of Gardiner or Reilly.
so he's saying that if toronto wasn't in boston's division he would consider rielly/gardiner for spooner. so right now, (because toronto is in a division with boston) he wouldn't even consider morgan rielly, one of the top defense prospects in the world or gardiner who lead all defense rookies in points for spooner, a small playmaking centre with top six potential stuck behind guys like bergeron, krejci, seguin (who can all play center for boston). really? you wouldn't even consider it

i don't know what's funnier, his troll or people here trying to defend it

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:39 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post
Yeah I'd be down to trade a 7th round pick for either one.
Only if it's conditional on performance.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Only if it's conditional on performance.
Actually it's conditional on cracking our line up.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:43 PM
  #104
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gardiner
kadri
JVR
1st

for

edler
kesler
kassian
7th

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:45 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
The value isn't even close. I wouldn't consider it trolling, but you cant even consider Rielly or Gardiner will be apart of a deal for Spooner? seriously? Okay he is looking good in the AHL, and Gardiner is having a hard time finding a spot.

But both Gardiner and Rielly are young 1st round draft picks that if you were to ask anyone besides Leaf haters, they would tell you that they are worth there place in the draft still...and wouldn't consider moving them for a similar aged guy, drafted in the 2nd round, who is scoring in the AHL and may be NHL ready.
that's so weird, you give reilly and gardiner (gardiner is the better comparable) all the benefit of the doubt but none for spooner who is younger, is on the cusp of the NHL as a top 6 forward.
Seems like they're in the same position to me yet Gardiner is worth his weight in gold and spooner is somehow warmed up leftovers.
All because 4 years ago Gardiner was drafted halfway through the first round while 2 years ago Spooner was drafted halfway through the 2nd round?

you see the disconnect? im not saying spooner is better or more valuable than Gardiner, and he may not be the player that fills the role but how is it that they dont have similarish value even if gardiners is a little higher?

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:46 PM
  #106
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If I was Toronto, I would take a close look at David Desharnais over in Montreal. In a #1 center role last year, he was very productive with Pacioretty and Cole, and would probably be a great fit as a 1A/1B type in Toronto with Kadri. I would say that Franson for Desharnais is a good swap for both teams, as Montreal has tremendous center depth with Plekanec, Galchenyuk and Eller, and could possibly use more top-4 D.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:52 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post
Actually it's conditional on cracking our line up.
Touche.

lets not get ahead of ourself. We are talking about a likely career AHLer and a Junior flop.

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:55 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hockyluv21 View Post
If I was Toronto, I would take a close look at David Desharnais over in Montreal. In a #1 center role last year, he was very productive with Pacioretty and Cole, and would probably be a great fit as a 1A/1B type in Toronto with Kadri. I would say that Franson for Desharnais is a good swap for both teams, as Montreal has tremendous center depth with Plekanec, Galchenyuk and Eller, and could possibly use more top-4 D.
The bait is set.


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Old
03-12-2013, 01:56 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post
You're making it sound like other teams want the leafs overrated prospects when really it's leaf fans trying to trade them away for players much more proven and valuable. Keep Gardiner and Reilly nobody wants them.
I guess i f we really have to...we'll make it work

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Old
03-12-2013, 01:59 PM
  #110
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Pretty sure every team would offer up a young 2nd pairing D man if that's all it took to get a #1C.

You are either grossly overrating Gardiner or you are grossly underrating the value of a teams #1C.

Usually for a team to give up their #1 C, it takes this:

a prospect that has a good chance of blossoming into either a top line F, top pairing D, or #1 goalie + A player who contributes significantly NOW + 1st round pick or two.

Rielly+Lupul+1st would be the kind of offer I would imagine it would take for a team to take you serious. Even then I would imagine it would have to be a team that was overloaded with centres.

To acquire a legit #1C you pretty much have 3 options:
1) Overpay via trade
2) Overpay during free agency
3) Draft and develop one


Last edited by Tenacious: 03-12-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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Old
03-12-2013, 02:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Oh ok.
Say you want Kopitar for example.

I doubt you get him for Gardiner, Rielly, 1st 2013, 1st 2014.

IMO you would still have to add. Maybe change one 1st to a 2nd and add Kadri and you MAYBE get there. Even then LA is better off.

Name me one NHL caliber young Center who is worth less than that?

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #112
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Zack Smith is the Senators #1 centre. Seems like a fair swap.

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Old
03-12-2013, 02:57 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
How about you watch Gardiner for yourself and form your own opinion, instead of taking what leaf fans or leaf haters tell you about him. I wouldn't trade Gardiner for 3 Ryan Spooners, and no im not kidding.

Gardiner suffered a concussion in the AHL and has had a hard time getting back on par with how he was playing last year, plus our defense in the NHL has been playing wonderful, so it really makes no sense to fix something that isn't broken. Honestly watching Gardiner for a couple games it becomes evident that he is going to be a very good player.
Don't be so sensitive.

Lots of Leaf fans were marketing Gardiner last season as something special. I mean really telling us how great he was. Now he's in the AHL, all while the Leafs are in the middle of a playoff push?

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:12 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Don't be so sensitive.

Lots of Leaf fans were marketing Gardiner last season as something special. I mean really telling us how great he was. Now he's in the AHL, all while the Leafs are in the middle of a playoff push?
You won't find a single Leafs fan that believes Jake shouldn't be up in the NHL right now. He's ready. Management has realized it, and so has the media (Dreger for example, keeps citing on the radio that he's ready. It's a waiver game now).

The issue for Jake right now is in order to come up, someone has to go down. There aren't any realistic options to go down other than maybe Kostka and Holzer. Both of which I believe need to pass through waivers. They just re-signed Holzer, and Kostka has been solid all year. Nothing special, but asset management wise, the team doesn't want to lose a potential asset, even if what they would bring back isn't exactly special.

It's a waiting game now. If the team was playing differently, Gardiner would be up. But right now, with the team playing really well considering what they have, there is no rush.


And with that all being said, Jake Gardiner will not be traded.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:13 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Don't be so sensitive.

Lots of Leaf fans were marketing Gardiner last season as something special. I mean really telling us how great he was. Now he's in the AHL, all while the Leafs are in the middle of a playoff push?
How am I being too sensitive? By telling you to make your own opinion and not just go by what others say?

Did you deliberately ignore my second paragraph? Hes still recovering from a concussion that just happened in November / December if my memory serves me correctly.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:13 PM
  #116
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Why not trying Gardiner as a center before trading him for one?

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:14 PM
  #117
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A soft offensive minded second pairing defense man will never ever get you unless you add... a decent amount. Gardiner will be a power play specialist that will play protected minutes down the line. That is most likely why he's in the AHL.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:17 PM
  #118
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Why not just be patient with Kadri? He's already taken huge strides forward.

By the time he fully hits his stride Gardiner and Rielly will both be with the club so it might make sense.

Do leafs fans not see him eventually filling that role?

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:19 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
How am I being too sensitive? By telling you to make your own opinion and not just go by what others say?

Did you deliberately ignore my second paragraph? Hes still recovering from a concussion that just happened in November / December if my memory serves me correctly.
That is certainly not a good sign if he is still recovering from the concussion...


No matter how Leaf fans try to spin it, fact of the matter is that obviously Carlyle feels there are enough ????'s to Gardiners game that he would rather have guys like Kostka, and Holzer in the lineup.

If Carlyle truly felt that Gardiner was a better option to help them push for playoffs, he would be playing right now.

Now, that's not to say Gardiner still doesn't have a tonne of promise. He did look pretty good last year, and he is still fairly young. But Gardiner alone will not get you anywhere close to a true #1C.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:19 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Morlesio14 View Post
Which centre would you be willing to trade for Jake Gardiner or Jake Gardiner + if necessary
Manny Malhotra

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03-12-2013, 03:22 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
How am I being too sensitive? By telling you to make your own opinion and not just go by what others say?

Did you deliberately ignore my second paragraph? Hes still recovering from a concussion that just happened in November / December if my memory serves me correctly.
There are tons of guys who are recovering from concussions who are currently playing in the NHL. I dont follow what you're saying. And if he's not healthy enough to play in the NHL, should he be playing in the AHL? This isnt a troll attempt, Im just trying to understand if his game has regressed at all. Carlyle seems like a reasonable Coach, after all, Kadri is thriving under him. Why isnt Gardiner doing the same?

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03-12-2013, 03:25 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Yeah, and how dare we emply sarcasm to yet another horrendous proposal. Duchene goes nowhere. You make the proposals, we bring the sarcasm.


What, 1 Leafs fan made a kind of offhand comment about Duchene and then a legion of Avs fans invaded this thread. I'm tired of Bozak+2nd to the Avs threads too but this isn't even one of them. Hard to argue that our fanbase isn't being irrationally sensitive to Avs/Leafs proposals these days.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:25 PM
  #123
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This has turned out well

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:26 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrielly View Post
so he's saying that if toronto wasn't in boston's division he would consider rielly/gardiner for spooner. so right now, (because toronto is in a division with boston) he wouldn't even consider morgan rielly, one of the top defense prospects in the world or gardiner who lead all defense rookies in points for spooner, a small playmaking centre with top six potential stuck behind guys like bergeron, krejci, seguin (who can all play center for boston). really? you wouldn't even consider it

i don't know what's funnier, his troll or people here trying to defend it
Obviously Boston would add if it were Reilly for Spooner.

But for Gardiner? Im not so sure. Im just trying to get a feel for his current situation.

Spooner isnt ready for the NHL quite yet IMO. I think next season he will make the team out of camp, he's "on the cusp". I do see his trade value similar to that of Gardiners'. If Toronto needs centermen, I can't see why a guy like Spooner wouldnt interest them. He's highly skilled, put up points in junior, and continues to do so in the AHL. He has potential.

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Old
03-12-2013, 03:31 PM
  #125
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I haven't been watching a lot of AHL games now that the lockout has ended so I couldn't really give you a fair opinion on Gardiner to be honest. From some blogs I've read says that he still isn't a 100, but he is getting closer to becoming his usual self. As another poster above also said it could be somewhat of a numbers game, because the only player who doesn't need to pass through waivers is Holzer, and for some reason Carlyle has him playing with Dion.

Only person who really knows is Carlyle and Nonis, but I can understand why they would prefer Gardiner finding his game in the AHL rather than the NHL. Makes more sense for him to make mistakes down there, then it would on the big leagues. Fwiw i know Gardiner won't fetch us a 1C, I'm not in here arguing that.

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